Garm's Regenerating Death Pickle

By Vergilius, in Star Wars: Armada Fleet Builds

I'm not a huge fan of posting my own lists here until I've played them a bit and am usually reporting on victory's after the fact, but I wanted to get some feedback on something I've been working on.

Here's the current stage in the process:

Garm's Battleship
Author: Vergilius

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 394/400

Commander: Garm Bel Iblis

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points)
- Garm Bel Iblis ( 25 points)
- Defiance ( 5 points)
- Walex Blissex ( 5 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 169 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 29 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Phoenix Home ( 3 points)
- Ahsoka Tano ( 2 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
- Shields to Maximum! ( 6 points)
= 76 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)
- Salvation ( 7 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
= 70 total ship cost

1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)
3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points)

The inspiration for this list started from my Rieekan list of last year, which ran 2 SW-7B Corvettes, 1 Jaina's Light TRC, and 1 Death Pickle, plus A-wings and YT2400. When the Pelta Assault came out, I immediately thought it was the kind of ship that fit into that Rieekan list, but could never make it work. A second key to my thinking came about when @shmitty mentioned Shields to Maximum being extremely good, despite the criticism the card has taken in the forum. So at an SC this weekend, I played with 2 flotillas, 1 Death Pickle, 1 SW-7B, and a Pelta Assault loaded out as above sans-title. My thoughts shifted to Garm and especially to the Phoenix Home title when I saw that I really loaded up on tokens. His problem is that he wants higher command ships and comms netting flotillas become less valuable. However, the Nebulon-B syngergizes very well with him.

Choice of Upgrades

Pickle: Although I'd rather have 5 activations with a Defiance list, I figure there's bound to be something that will swing into range and that you can knock out to even the count, then it becomes easier to trigger Defiance from there. Walex is solid defense, and given the emphasis on shields, he might see potential use from burning through the redirects as he would from the grace. Advanced Projectors synergizes well with the regenerating shields and with the double redirect. You do lose out on ECM, which means a hard-hitting XI7 build may prove a challenge, but its rare that you get multiple XI7 shots into the same hull zone on the same turn, so the redirects and shields are around to absorb the other shots. The best way to handle that kind of build is to fly well to minimze the shots on target and maximize the range benefits of your own ships. RBD is good for taking off damage cards from possible rams, whether you hit them or they hit you. So going back to that XI7 shot, they might eat 4 shields, redirect one, and do three hull, which then turns into all the shields back and all of the damage cards flipped from RBD. That means you can tank a couple of heavy shots, and its rare that someone would get more than two. QBT is something I've thrown back in. There's a lot of slow objectives here that force faster play from the opponent, which means an extra die is delightful. And naturally LS is a staple in these kinds of builds to correct for poor rolls.

Pelta: The title+Garm creates a stock of tokens, because I find the Pelta can usually bank the first two turns of tokens anyway. Ahsoka is essential to get exactly what you need when you need it. Projection Experts+Shields to Maximum is the linchpin of the build. You can reveal an engineering command, project off two shields while recovering one more, and STM gets you back shields every turn. External racks is just a beautiful upgrade. There's the flexibility to spend it against squadrons. Rerolls from CF tokens tend to work well enough to correct damage. The Assault variant is just really good for anti-squadron attacks as well, and the defense suite makes it pretty stocky. At speed-2, it flies well with a Death pickle.

Nebulon-B Escort: I suppose a Support Refit is possible, but the Escort is there to add two blue AS dice, and provide the random flexibility of activating two squads. Again, CF rerolls are your main source of red dice manipulation. Projection Experts is here an added bonus, providing another critical ship that can use it if needed. Most regenerating lists run into problems of forcing the ships to activate in a particular sequence, and this helps provide additional flexibility on making selections.

GR75: BH/Toryn is a staple in my lists. It can be flown defensively as an activation filler, with a plan of using the squads primarily defensively. Against a heavy squadron list, it might fly closer to the think of things, and then you've got Toryn Boosted AS shots from your ships, plus main squadron attacks, plus counter rolls. Comms net is still a left-over from my other build. I'd probably drop it entirely which frees up a little in the way of points for different upgrades on other ships, though the Comms net might see some use in later rounds. EBH is one option that allows squads to activate entirely from the transport (3+token), though it is might be better simply to plan for either three here and one token elsewhere, or 2 here and 2 from a command on the Nebulon-B.

Formation flying

What you really want is for most enemies to go after the pickle. This is also a double arc list. If you can double arc a key target, that's potentially 2 blue from the QBT, and 2 black from Defiance. Even then, it still might be all of that at two targets. Or the side arc at big ships and the front arc on squads. So the key to the list is really something I've started calling "the pocket." The ships are deployed moving forward. The side arc of the MC80 with Salvation next to it and the Pelta on the outside creates a pocket. The fact that Salvation and the Pelta are further back does an enormous amount to keep them alive and safe longer. Squadrons that fly into the pocket have to eat A-wing attacks, and double-blue AS from two ships, and blue-black AS from a third. The objectives are critical to this process. Station Assault and Contested Outpost both force the opponent to one particular area of the map, and combined with the placement of other obstacles, can limit approaches to your list, thereby shepherding people into the pocket. Solar Corona means maximal positioning advantage which again limits the approaches that players can make to get at your ships. I'm generally looking at a bid so that key lists that want to go second are forced to go first, and I have the opportunity to pick against the rest.

By putting the Salvation in the middle, opponents have a harder time getting at its side arcs. Furthermore, the front arcs of the Pelta/Salvation do a decent job of covering the front arc of the MC80, which helps keep units off of it.

Formation flying and objectives also making harder for ships like MC30s and Gladiators to get around the formation, since the entry path to hitting Phoenix Home and Salvation takes you directly into Defiance's side arc.

Generally speaking, if you do run across a build that can put damage directly through to hull on the MC80, you look in your flying to attempt to mitigate that.

Flak you to Death

One of the questions I've long looked at is how to use ship flak effectively. With Sloan in the meta heavily, and with Rieekan/Dodonna aces still on the prowl, this is a particularly nasty AS list to deal with. Short of a disaster in flying the list, it will be tough for squads to get at the Pelta/Nebulon without exposing themselves severally. Toryn is particularly nasty no matter what they bring. You fish for an accuracy against scatter aces even if you roll 2 damage, and you fish for damage against generics, and there's so much flak that it can just wear down aces with a bunch of one damage attacks.

Final Thoughts:

Of course, I really want Engine Techs. Comms Net is in the process of revision. While I think some kind of bid is wise, it doesn't need to be 6 points. What could change about the list?

I'm on mobile so I'll update this in a bit, but go dig up my Garm's Super-Dreadnought batrep. It's from early June, so pre-Wave 6, and it's a double pickle list, but the principle seems similar. The only list that gave me genuine trouble was @Valca's TRC90/Admo Cracken list, which Id like to think QBTs would have allowed me to not be shattered completely unanswered. I didn't use PE much, but you might. AP makes this list great/hell to kill, so anything improving shields further is good. Unfortunately QBT and RS are both mods. Do you have any plans to deal with second player objective lists?

3 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Do you have any plans to deal with second player objective lists?

Bid.

It often doesn't take much, because most of them bid really close to 400 points. And when I start running across really big bids for second, then I suppose I'll have to rethink that approach. I believe I've only heard of one community where that has caught on.

8 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

I'm on mobile so I'll update this in a bit, but go dig up my Garm's Super-Dreadnought batrep. It's from early June, so pre-Wave 6, and it's a double pickle list, but the principle seems similar.

Thanks for that. I remember vaguely seeing something like that pop up in the feed, but I do a lot of title-reading and then passing on threads when I browse here.

35 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

Bid.

It often doesn't take much, because most of them bid really close to 400 points. And when I start running across really big bids for second, then I suppose I'll have to rethink that approach. I believe I've only heard of one community where that has caught on.

You might be talking about mine. I know (coincidentally again @Valca) around here there is a list with a 17 point bid and another super-pickle, optimized to dominate Sensor Net and Fire Lanes.

In any case, here's my batrep. Feel free to poke holes in it.

It is interesting how different local metas evolve. A 17 point second player bid is just bizarre in my thinking, largely because we have people bidding that many points for first. And if they'll give you second automatically, there's no point in bidding hugely for it. I do think objectives make enough of a difference that it is worth bidding something for the choice. It really depends upon how comfortable you are going first or second respectively.

I've had a chance to read your batrep. Thanks for being thorough. It was a pleasure to read. I've seen someone use a Garm double-pickle in a wave-2 regional. I think one thing that struck me about your list was how difficult it was to use both ships effectively. The footprint on the gameboard was so large, and although you have huge arcs and large dice pools, they really have a hard time complementing each other well enough. Contrast that with the Rieekan variation that I evolved the Garm list above from. The CR90B is an excellent opener on targets for which the Defiance finish. I even got some good red dice shots off of the Pelta.

I think from reading your Batrep that a CR90 swarm would also give my Garm list fits. Engine Techs might help that match-up. You can one-shot a Corvette from medium, but it takes some doing to set it up. For other potentially threatening units (Admonition, Demolisher), I'm looking at set-up that forces really bad approaches.

I ran a very similar list a bit back, swapping a second pelta for the flotilla and squads. I highly recommend engine techs on the mc80. You need it to lead ahead of your weaker ships to draw fire and soften things up for your other ships to take out. I'd have to change my fleet for the current meta as going completely squadronless versus Sloane is a recipe for disaster, but having 3 ships able to send shields to my mc80 a turn and it having 8 engineering every turn (from salvation, garm and ahsoko) made it a monster.

Oh and I went with engineering captain instead of blissex so I could navigate or concentrate fire every turn on the pickle and still swap to engineering any time. Blissex is a great fit though (my feeling is it was more likely people would ignore my mc80 and try to kill the rest though so blissex was less important). Also...you could rock advanced gunnery as well if you really want 5o bait them into going after the mc80

Solar Corona offers no points which I believe is essential for tank play

@Drakkars Thanks for your insight into your build. I"d love to get Engine Techs in there, but the real question is doing everything else that I"d want the build to do. I think the default approach against almost any death pickle is to ignore it, and regenerating shields is only going to amplify that. so the key idea is to keep the ships staggered and back away from it.

Finally, let's talk blue objectives and the reason behind the Solar Corona selection. Then we can look at what we can do in response.

The big reasoning behind the selection is that in an environment with strategic, most of the token/points of objectives become off-limits. Dangerous Territory is probably the least likely to backfire of the points objective, but its also not a huge point score and isn't superb for luring the enemy to a particular area of the map. This also isn't the list that I think would be best with DT. It also probably isn't maneuverable enough to play Navigational Hazards well nor does it have the squadrons for Superior Positions.

So in a list where you specifically do not want to commit to strategic, what do you pick? Solar Corona isn't exciting, but its at least acceptable.

Salvage Run. I wrote an article on it if you are interested.

10 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Salvage Run. I wrote an article on it if you are interested.

Still relies on tokens which strategic squadrons can pull.

3 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

I just did. There's nothing in there that addresses the objection I've made here.

Set it up and just how many strategic units and what ranges it takes to bust this objective!

Just now, Ginkapo said:

Set it up and just how many strategic units and what ranges it takes to bust this objective!

I've played it on the board before. I'm still shying away from the points deficit. Though I take it that you think that even on a negative point swing in the opponent's favor, the shape of the battlefield might be enough to compensate?

And at 0 squadrons, piece of cake.

At 1 strategic squadron, a minimum of one token moved.

At 2 strategic squadrons, a minimum of two tokens moved. And I've played games here where the points deficit runs negative. One of the difficulties here is just how erratic the obstacles can get from game to game, by the time you introduce two new obstacles and you're both placing back and forth.

So have you played this fleet yet? How have the results been?

My Garm fleets have really settled in to using a Liberty, Pelta Assault, AF, and GR -75. It's just a good mix for him.

Just now, shmitty said:

So have you played this fleet yet? How have the results been?

My Garm fleets have really settled in to using a Liberty, Pelta Assault, AF, and GR -75. It's just a good mix for him.

I played a Rieekan list with Pelta/MC80 on Sunday, and my thought was to revise it and try it with Garm. I was busy playing Madine on Monday, and then the next SC is Saturday and I'm dedicating that to Madine.

For me, the real problem is not how it does in most casual games, because I am usually going to win with an inefficient list that is flown well. The real question is how I'd do against the top 6 or so other players in the area, and those games can be infrequent.

The big problem is always picking some high command ships, a token utilization program, and a plan that keeps them on the board through an activation on turn-5, so I definitely like what you've done.