1 hour ago, shosuko said:

Not if you count follower cards -

But I don't. Maybe my concept of followers is shaped by when I started back in Crimson and Jade, but I always viewed followers as a collective group of generics (Heavy Infantry, Spearmen, etc.) lead by a named hero. And I realize this may he Old5R baggage, but I feel like the difference between a follower and a personality was generic nobodies vs. persons of merit. But we're definitely in a new paradigm now.

And while we've only seen one so far, the Crab do have a follower: Watch Commander. But since we are doing generic names for characters, too, this raises the question of what makes him different than, say, Stoic Gunso (other than mechanical concerns.)

Clan-themed conflict cards being a staple of the game was something that I was wary of at first, but have come to like. I just wish there was a way to officially splash dynasty characters, too.

PS: I think this entire discussion is one of my favorite ones to have, even though I know neither side will ever change the other's mind.

1 hour ago, shosuko said:

Not if you count follower cards - if you consider that new L5R doesn't have followers, so the generic cards that would be followers are included in the personality card pool instead, then we're at about the same mix. Some personality cards do come from the conflict deck, which is where followers originally came from - so it's not even a stretch to count that.

Other elements of the new system give a stronger thematic feel as well. Conflict cards are now also clan specific so the actions you take can better suit your clan and playstyle than the previous method which had to give everyone the same cards. While we lose some thematic ground with generic personalities we gain a lot of ground in themed action cards.

I think that is a relevant point when we are considering elements that support or detract from the thematic representation of the game and fiction.

This is strictly speaking not true, watch commander is a follower.

5 hours ago, Taki said:

This is strictly speaking not true, watch commander is a follower.

Which is odd - his name makes one think he'd have more of a leader role.

Watch commander is the worst title for a card ever. Not only is it not a commander, but Rokugani don't even wear watches.

11 hours ago, Mon no Oni said:

Maybe some Eager Scout will survive some time on the Wall beating all odds and we will learn his name! Who knows! Maybe, sooner or later, we will have two different characters that were once Eager Scout 1 & Eager Scout 2 heavily drinking together, celebrating they both survived long enough to get an actual name!

So much win in this sentence. Even if they are not Experienced versions of the base card, new named cards can grow from the stories.

"Who brought this information in!" bellowed Hida Kisada!

The young scout ran before his daimyo, bowed low and replied "It was I, my lord."

"What is your name!"

"Hiruma Tojo, my lord," replied the young man, eyes still on the floor in his bow.

12 hours ago, shosuko said:

Not if you count follower cards - if you consider that new L5R doesn't have followers, so the generic cards that would be followers are included in the personality card pool instead, then we're at about the same mix. Some personality cards do come from the conflict deck, which is where followers originally came from - so it's not even a stretch to count that.

Just as a point on the numbers: There were 4,631 personalities listed on Oracle vs 749 followers, or 16% generic vs 84% named (maybe 17% generic vs 83% named with the personalities like Ninja Mystic etc).

I definitely think that there is merit and a certain logic to each style on naming, and some blend of generic vs named is probably the ideal point. I would lean towards more named cards than generic ones, but that is not to say that they don't serve a purpose or add their own flavor.

As others have said, I just can't get too invested into Eager Scout - that name doesn't have anything to draw me in, either as a new or returning player. When I was new to L5R I would see the names for each character and think man, Hiruma Todori must have his own story, and his own life. To me there was some level of importance and depth to that card, regardless of any appearances (or lack there of) in fictions that I had never read at the time. Eager Scout is just someone who happened to be there, died, and no one cared - a red shirt or a storm trooper. And that's not say that storm troopers aren't relevant to that universe, they are, but I would rather play with Finn or FN-2187 than Hesitant Trooper.

On the other hand, they have decide to name the Strongholds, rather than go back to the generic-sounding titles that Imperial had, and 20 Festivals re-used.

15 hours ago, Mon no Oni said:

Also, I'm hoping the "experienced" mechanics survives in some manner (even if I'm not holding my breath), which might interact or not with the generic dudes. Maybe some Eager Scout will survive some time on the Wall beating all odds and we will learn his name! Who knows! Maybe, sooner or later, we will have two different characters that were once Eager Scout 1 & Eager Scout 2 heavily drinking together, celebrating they both survived long enough to get an actual name!

Having played some crab now, Eager Scouts are fed almost immediately into the Funeral Pyre and to the Stoic Gunso. They will never survive.

14 minutes ago, YasukiKaito said:

As others have said, I just can't get too invested into Eager Scout - that name doesn't have anything to draw me in, either as a new or returning player. When I was new to L5R I would see the names for each character and think man, Hiruma Todori must have his own story, and his own life. To me there was some level of importance and depth to that card, regardless of any appearances (or lack there of) in fictions that I had never read at the time. Eager Scout is just someone who happened to be there, died, and no one cared - a red shirt or a storm trooper. And that's not say that storm troopers aren't relevant to that universe, they are, but I would rather play with Finn or FN-2187 than Hesitant Trooper.

There is one potential advantage, though, to going with the generics, though it depends on whether/how they use the experienced mechanic. Since the Eager Scout is eternally legal, I think it might be interesting to see more than one person 'experience' out of it. How many Hiruma vets started as eager scouts? Probably a lot, but they develop differently over time. Personally, I think I'd like that.

Of course, if I were betting on it, I don't think they'll use Experienced at all, but just have different versions of the same character. I'd still like some way of indicating that this guy started as an Eager Scout, or whatever.

4 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

On the other hand, they have decide to name the Strongholds, rather than go back to the generic-sounding titles that Imperial had, and 20 Festivals re-used.

Given that strongholds are now associated with a specific province and are no longer this monolithic base of operations that remains until your entire realm is torn apart, I'm glad they went this direction.

3 minutes ago, agarrett said:

There is one potential advantage, though, to going with the generics, though it depends on whether/how they use the experienced mechanic. Since the Eager Scout is eternally legal, I think it might be interesting to see more than one person 'experience' out of it. How many Hiruma vets started as eager scouts? Probably a lot, but they develop differently over time. Personally, I think I'd like that.

Of course, if I were betting on it, I don't think they'll use Experienced at all, but just have different versions of the same character. I'd still like some way of indicating that this guy started as an Eager Scout, or whatever.

I think that would be super cool! I'm not sure how they might do that but I would be a big fan of that. Any kind of 'experienced' or similar mechanic I would get on board with.

I also like the point Mirith makes about some characters essentially being sacrifice bait. A generic makes a lot of sense to me in that scenario.

1 hour ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

Given that strongholds are now associated with a specific province and are no longer this monolithic base of operations that remains until your entire realm is torn apart, I'm glad they went this direction.

Meh, I liked the sense of writing my own story generics give

Honestly, I can't believe this has been an argument that has gone on for five fckn pages!

I can't believe that someone won't buy the game because of generically named characters either. What an idiotic reason to not play a game, really.

Personally, I love the generic named characters if only for the fact that I don't have multiple characters on the table with the same name. You don't see in movies that every stormtrooper is named Fred Cannotaim. No, they are fckn stormtroopers. Not every ewok is named. Only a few, the rest are just fckn ewoks!

Why the hell is this even an argument??

1 minute ago, Sparks Duh said:

Why the hell is this even an argument??

Because we are all so desperate to have the game in our hands that we need to turn that L5R energy somewhere!!

18 minutes ago, Sparks Duh said:

Why the hell is this even an argument??

To troll you.

1 minute ago, Mirith said:

To troll you.

I mean... it's not even trolling me. Nothing about this topic really interests me. I'm genuinely curious as to why this is such a big deal to people. And it sure as hell doesn't make sense for a person to not buy the game because of it.

18 minutes ago, Sparks Duh said:

I mean... it's not even trolling me. Nothing about this topic really interests me. I'm genuinely curious as to why this is such a big deal to people. And it sure as hell doesn't make sense for a person to not buy the game because of it.

But the story. Can't make story about people without names. Can't ever have a story about a wandering ronin or a yojimbo if they aren't named!

Never happens. EVER.

Just now, RandomJC said:

But the story. Can't make story about people without names. Can't ever have a story about a wandering ronin or a yojimbo if they aren't named!

Never happens. EVER.

I already mentioned one story (Star Wars) having generically named characters and people seem to enjoy that story a lot. *Shrug*

2 minutes ago, Sparks Duh said:

I already mentioned one story (Star Wars) having generically named characters and people seem to enjoy that story a lot. *Shrug*

Hm...yes. and I was being aloof in a reference to classic film Yojimbo by Akira Kurasawa, where the protagonist, played by Toshiro Mifune, literally has no name.

2 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Hm...yes. and I was being aloof in a reference to classic film Yojimbo by Akira Kurasawa, where the protagonist, played by Toshiro Mifune , literally has no name.

Is this phrase even necessary? I mean, doesn't Toshiro Mifune pretty much play every single character in every single samurai movie ever made?

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

Is this phrase even necessary? I mean, doesn't Toshiro Mifune pretty much play every single character in every single samurai movie ever made?

Certainly if it's directed by Kurosawa. (Though he isn't a Samurai in Seven Samurai, go figure.)

Legitimate question: What Star Wars characters have generic names?

2 minutes ago, YasukiKaito said:

Legitimate question: What Star Wars characters have generic names?

Han Solo, Luke Skywalker. Such boring and generic names.

1 minute ago, YasukiKaito said:

Legitimate question: What Star Wars characters have generic names?

Stormtrooper, imperial guard. Mostly just generic troop characters. Bointyhounters. Depending how deep the rabbit hole you wanna go, every character that had screen time was given a name. But that's what 40 years and nerd obsessiveness gives you.

4 minutes ago, YasukiKaito said:

Legitimate question: What Star Wars characters have generic names?

Well, in Decipher's CCG, we had Stormtrooper, Green Squadron Pilot, Rodian, Vine Snake, etc.