As an old CCG player, I like it. Nothing was more frustrating than developing a liking for a character in the CCG only to find out that AEG didn't consider them significant enough to get any "screen time" in any of the stories or RPG write up where you could see their history.

I also prefer the 'new' way. I think the Story will end up being better by FFG not having to squeeze 50 characters into the stories based on 'named' cards.

If they create a character who they then make into card is one thing.

The reverse is another.

56 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

If they create a character who they then make into card is one thing.

The reverse is another.

This. So much this. We already (sort of) have an example of this with Hida Tomonatsu. In practice at least, the story introduced us to a new character, and then the character was revealed as a card. Players immediately started thinking of ways they might use her card, largely because they liked the character. I love when minor characters in stories are introduced as new units/cards in a game. I would love to see popular non-unique cards lead into the introduction of minor characters in the fiction, and then those minor characters brought back to the game as a unique, maybe "experienced" version of the non-unique card that the character originated from.

1 hour ago, ldorn said:

As an old CCG player, I like it. Nothing was more frustrating than developing a liking for a character in the CCG only to find out that AEG didn't consider them significant enough to get any "screen time" in any of the stories or RPG write up where you could see their history.

So true - better to have nameless fodder cards, and save the names for the people you'll actually hear about! Besides, they can always experience a card to have a name. I don't see why they would leave out the exp mechanic, it was great for both deck building, and to feel the story progression in playing the game.

3 hours ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

And for those who feel like they will have no affection for the non-unique characters in this game, I encourage you to hold off judgment until the game is released and you've had a chance to play it a bit. For when I played Star Wars: The Card Game , I never felt happier as the light side than when my good friend, the non-unique Guardian of Peace, joined the fray on my side, nor felt a greater sense of dread as the dark side than when she did so as my opponent's protector. Those Wookiees were bastards, though.

As someone who played Magic alot in the past (and still to this day, though not nearly as much), I have to say that I got attached to non-unique characters/cards about as frequently as I got attached to unique ones. Some of my fondest memories involve stomping people with the likes of Vampire Nighthawk, Monastery Swiftspear, or Tragic Slip and Crib Swap (which aren't even characters, just gut-bustingly hilarious concepts. "Oh, you summoned Erebos, the indestructible god of the dead? Sorry, he just slipped into a hole and died/was actually just a baby this whole time").

An Old5R player here (and we've done this discussion here before, but why not again?)

I am much more in favor of naming every character card like in the old CCG, though I'll just have to get used to generic names in the new LCG.

A number of posters have made the point that generic names make it easier to identify what personalities are quickly, but I'm not actually sure it'll be much different than we used to do when we'd say stuff like "Oh Isawa Tomo. That's the water guy that moves people?" or "Shiba Danjuro...he's the yojimbo that takes actions for shugenja, right?" Generic names won't really change having to explain what a character is mechanically when you bring them up; I don't think it's functionally different to name a card "Seeker of Knowledge" or "Isawa Natsumi" if we will inevitably follow that up with "the shugenja that adds the Air ring?" If we want to know she also seeks knowledge, art and flavor text can give us pretty much that same information. And with a name like "Isawa" we already know with a good amount of certainty what clan she is in.

(There's also the question of will the Shiba only ever get one y ojimbo now that we know "Shiba Yojimbo" is a card name?)

Now, one good thing about the generic names is that the old way did end up with a number of keywords that would confuse new players (for example, "Master of Water"), and moving those sorts of things up to the card title does make the text box less dense.

1 hour ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

If we want to know she also seeks knowledge, art and flavor text can give us pretty much that same information. And with a name like "Isawa" we already know with a good amount of certainty what clan she is in.

Well, she'd have an orange template emblazoned with the Phoenix mon either way, so...

1 hour ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

(There's also the question of will the Shiba only ever get one yojimbo now that we know "Shiba Yojimbo" is a card name?)

I could be wrong, but hasn't a card already been previewed that reveals Yojimbo is still a character trait?

3 hours ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

I could be wrong, but hasn't a card already been previewed that reveals Yojimbo is still a character trait?

Yeah, but what are they going to call him? If it was "Loyal Yojimbo" or "Veteran Yojimbo" there is some room to work, but now we have THE one and only Shiba Yojimbo. The template from which all Shiba yojimbo are wrought.

3 hours ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

Well, she'd have an orange template emblazoned with the Phoenix mon either way, so...

But she wouldn't have a mon in a text card list or when I bring up the card name in conversation.

1 hour ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

But she wouldn't have a mon in a text card list or when I bring up the card name in conversation.

Just wait until there are multiple versions of unique characters. That'll be a treat...

1 hour ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

Just wait until there are multiple versions of unique characters. That'll be a treat...

Thinking of them as Old5R experience levels should be fine. And if they don't do overlay rules it will actually be easier in this FFG version (and I don't think they will do overlay; I assume it'll be the same "discard for fate" as long as the cards have the same titles.)

1 hour ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

Thinking of them as Old5R experience levels should be fine. And if they don't do overlay rules it will actually be easier in this FFG version (and I don't think they will do overlay; I assume it'll be the same "discard for fate" as long as the cards have the same titles.)

I believe this was mentioned to be the case in the rule book leak a while back. That you discard for more fate, I mean.

Salutations. New CCG player here [Emperor was when I joined]. I have to put my lot in with those who like the new naming scheme, for all the reasons already said, really. Just because someone has a name, doesn't mean they matter. And just because someone has a generic non-name, doesn't mean you can't get attached. I understand the worry from people who haven't played games with this new naming scheme, but I'd think heading from so many who say you still get attached, and I don't think we've heard anything about the opposite, should lessen those worries.

10 minutes ago, fyrm said:

I understand the worry from people who haven't played games with this new naming scheme

The irony being that every other CCG I have ever played or seen firsthand in my life uses the "new naming scheme." The only way for someone not to have experienced it at least once in the past is if L5R were the only CCG they got into.

Which is certainly possible, don't get me wrong; L5R CCG was (and remains to this day) a solid, solid game.

EDIT: Actually no, Weiss Schwarz is a recent exception in that nearly all characters are both non-unique and specific. But I don't think most are playing that for the immersive experience that draws me personally to these games.

Decipher's Star Trek CCGs (first and second edition) used the "old" format of having specific names for non-unique personnel. That said, I played Decipher Star Wars and Lord of the Rings games before I ever got into Trek, so seeing unique names on non-unique personnel was an adjustment for me.

I prefer the generic descriptors for several reasons.

1. It sets unique personalities apart. If somebody mentions a personality by name, you don't have to ask if they have are unique or not.

2. It makes more story sense. The world may have any number of Hida Guardians, but it never made sense to me in the old game that they'd all have the same name.

3. I'll have an easier time identifing personalities. I have trouble with names, and I can't tell you how many times I tried to identify personalities by their family name in the old CCG. It was usually met with a response of "Uh, which one?".

4. If a particular character becomes popular or important, they aren't stuck as a non-unique personality. Sure, Hida Keyundadamat might be a Hida Guardian, but this way the name isn't already used and we can get a separate personality.

58 minutes ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

The irony being that every other CCG I have ever played or seen firsthand in my life uses the "new naming scheme." The only way for someone not to have experienced it at least once in the past is if L5R were the only CCG they got into.

Which is certainly possible, don't get me wrong; L5R CCG was (and remains to this day) a solid, solid game.

EDIT: Actually no, Weiss Schwarz is a recent exception in that nearly all characters are both non-unique and specific. But I don't think most are playing that for the immersive experience that draws me personally to these games.

Weiss Schwarz, like MLP CCG, sell mostly because they drop the names everywhere. People play those games because they want to play those characters - even if it creates weird situations where multiple of the same named character appear at a time - because they are after a game that involves those names. No one wants to play nameless-vocaloid-2, they want to play Hatsuni Miku, or Ren and Lin, ect. Those games use it because it is the life-line of their game. Without the tie in the games would essentially not exist. The fictions for these worlds stands on its own as a product, the game is a by-product.

Similarly for MTG it is a game only, and a fiction secondary, so no one cares about the fiction to play the game. They are there for a competitive game and you can name things like Troll Scout and no one would think any differently.

L5R meets between these two. It is a game primarily, but feeds off of the fiction to create a unique gaming experience. I'm 100% certain that as fiction builds and new characters are named in the fiction we will get cards of these characters (like Tomonatsu.) Names should come from the fiction first so we have a reason to have a named character. The fiction are also filled with generic samurai who get cut down by the big wigs, so it also makes sense to have some nameless fodder in the game.

1 minute ago, shosuko said:

Weiss Schwarz, like MLP CCG, sell mostly because they drop the names everywhere. People play those games because they want to play those characters - even if it creates weird situations where multiple of the same named character appear at a time - because they are after a game that involves those names. No one wants to play nameless-vocaloid-2, they want to play Hatsuni Miku, or Ren and Lin, ect. Those games use it because it is the life-line of their game. Without the tie in the games would essentially not exist. The fictions for these worlds stands on its own as a product, the game is a by-product.

Similarly for MTG it is a game only, and a fiction secondary, so no one cares about the fiction to play the game. They are there for a competitive game and you can name things like Troll Scout and no one would think any differently.

L5R meets between these two. It is a game primarily, but feeds off of the fiction to create a unique gaming experience. I'm 100% certain that as fiction builds and new characters are named in the fiction we will get cards of these characters (like Tomonatsu.) Names should come from the fiction first so we have a reason to have a named character. The fiction are also filled with generic samurai who get cut down by the big wigs, so it also makes sense to have some nameless fodder in the game.

Well put.

6 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

Decipher's Star Trek CCGs (first and second edition) used the "old" format of having specific names for non-unique personnel. That said, I played Decipher Star Wars and Lord of the Rings games before I ever got into Trek, so seeing unique names on non-unique personnel was an adjustment for me.

I prefer the generic descriptors for several reasons.

1. It sets unique personalities apart. If somebody mentions a personality by name, you don't have to ask if they have are unique or not.

2. It makes more story sense. The world may have any number of Hida Guardians, but it never made sense to me in the old game that they'd all have the same name.

3. I'll have an easier time identifing personalities. I have trouble with names, and I can't tell you how many times I tried to identify personalities by their family name in the old CCG. It was usually met with a response of "Uh, which one?".

4. If a particular character becomes popular or important, they aren't stuck as a non-unique personality. Sure, Hida Keyundadamat might be a Hida Guardian, but this way the name isn't already used and we can get a separate personality.

As someone else already mentioned, it also helps with the setting. Suppose we have non-unique Hida Kyoubou: a guy who rages and gets stronger the more conflicts he's in. Is he representative of a group that does that, or is he rather singular in that way? Call him Hida Berserker instead, and suddenly it's clear that there exist a group of these guys within the Crab clan.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

As someone else already mentioned, it also helps with the setting. Suppose we have non-unique Hida Kyoubou: a guy who rages and gets stronger the more conflicts he's in. Is he representative of a group that does that, or is he rather singular in that way? Call him Hida Berserker instead, and suddenly it's clear that there exist a group of these guys within the Crab clan.

Interesting; I actually find that it works in the opposite direction. I thinking having multiple named cards that are berserkers makes it clearer that there exists a group, unless there are multiple variations of the "Hida Berserker" title / card-type.

As blah blah blah...

I'm not a fan of the new naming convention, and I frankly just can't see how people are finding it confusing (not saying you guys aren't, just that I have a hard time following your way of thinking). But my lack of comprehension doesn't make your opinion less valid, and things are as they are, so...

In my opinion, the old naming convention was the right choice for a young game - a game that was trying to build its own world and populate it. If the original L5R had limited itself to named uniques, it would have taken forever and a day to populate the world (remember, these were the days before regular fiction - you got a story or two every Imperial Herald, a rulebook fiction, and that was it). The cards were how the story was told, and the only good way to introduce characters. Going for generic name for the non-unique would have slowed down the introduction of characters to the point where we wouldn't have been able to know who the actors of the game were until several expansions in (hell, half the seven thunders, the protagonists, would have only showed up in Shadowlands).

Later on in the game's lifetime, when the clans were well fleshed out with dozens of characters, and regular fictions and RPG books had become the main vector for fleshing out the world, and "Name a character to get a prize" idiocy was all the rage, then yes, all the named non-uniques became a problem more so than a solution.

The current incarnation is in a bit of an oddball position, because in one sense the world is already well established (for returning players) and isn't (for new players). As is, it might take a long time before we see the key players of the clans all carded, given the non-unique:unique ratio. Agetoki, Gohei, Motso (and maybe Tsuko? Did the Lion get Tsuko? I forgot) ; Yoshi, Toshimoko, Shizue and Kuwanan ; Mirumoto Daimyo dude and Hitomi ; O-Ushi, Sukune, Yakamo and Yori, and probably a good part of the elemental council (though that remains to be seen) - these are all major figures who are confirmed to be around and who just don't exist in the card world right now due to the necessity of printing sufficient non-uniques (and the fact that these cards can't be non-uniques). The existence of online fiction in a key role alleviate the problem somewhat, but it's definitely a downside of the New naming scheme when trying to restart Rokugan.

Once we get past that initial hurdle of all the characters in need of being (re)introduced, things should become considerably easier.

@Himoto

I guess it's a good thing we are living in the present where we will get monthly fiction and card releases. This should help expand the universe, introduce characters, and propel the story forward at a more steady rate than the previous model where new sets happened months apart, and a higher bulk of cards needed to be front loaded to support buying multiple booster packs to acquire rares.

It will help, but even then there'll be a fairly significant backlog of named characters to work through, and it might be a long while (even after the game is actually out) before we get to actually play our favorites. Depending on what kind of ratio of unique to non unique the packs go with.

5 minutes ago, Himoto said:

It will help, but even then there'll be a fairly significant backlog of named characters to work through, and it might be a long while (even after the game is actually out) before we get to actually play our favorites. Depending on what kind of ratio of unique to non unique the packs go with.

You have to admit, though, it is a good way for FFG to motivate people to buy the new packs and hold out for later updates.

Hah, I suppose it is that, yes.

I honestly don't like having such a small pool of characters to like to begin with. The named non-uniques in Imperial Edition breathed so much life in Rokugan and gave every clan a bunch of characters to identify with, many of whom went on to become classics (Amoro, Sukune, Yori, Taka ; Uji and Yoshi ; Daini, Hitomi and Mitsu ; Kage, Agetoki and Gohei ; Wakiza ; Matsu Hiroru ; Kaede, Tadaka, Tomo, Uona, Tsukune ; Ginawa, Toku ; Kamoko and Yasamura...).

In comparison, the LCG starts with very few *people* you can get attached to. It will grow, but it's going to be a hard time before it gets there.

3 hours ago, Himoto said:

It will help, but even then there'll be a fairly significant backlog of named characters to work through, and it might be a long while (even after the game is actually out) before we get to actually play our favorites. Depending on what kind of ratio of unique to non unique the packs go with.

Sometimes characters come, and sometimes characters go - I would advise anyone to kinda forget about their favorite moments in the old story, and even forget about the characters... Not really "forget" per se but don't expect them to be the same, or even exist in the new story. Be ready to embrace new stories and new characters. FFG's job isn't to re-hash what L5R was, but to re-launch it and sustain the most important aspect which is the marriage between a game and a story. If they need to ax a few characters from the old story, and inject their own - or change the existing characters in unexpected ways - so be it.

The reality is - Hitomi may not become Lady Moon, or even have the Obsidian Fist... Yakamo may not lose his hand. It doesn't seem likely that Shoju will die in a coup, and if no one kills Hantei 38th then Toturi certainly won't become emperor. This is a new world. Even if some of the same things do happen again we can't expect them to happen the same way.

Right now we have a familiar cast and that's good because they do want to ensure we know this is the same world - but its like the butterfly effect. They need to tell new stories, and can't stick to the old script to do so.

7 hours ago, Himoto said:

Hah, I suppose it is that, yes.

I honestly don't like having such a small pool of characters to like to begin with. The named non-uniques in Imperial Edition breathed so much life in Rokugan and gave every clan a bunch of characters to identify with, many of whom went on to become classics (Amoro, Sukune, Yori, Taka ; Uji and Yoshi ; Daini, Hitomi and Mitsu ; Kage, Agetoki and Gohei ; Wakiza ; Matsu Hiroru ; Kaede, Tadaka, Tomo, Uona, Tsukune ; Ginawa, Toku ; Kamoko and Yasamura...).

In comparison, the LCG starts with very few *people* you can get attached to. It will grow, but it's going to be a hard time before it gets there.

I guess people identifying with cards with no story is a rather new and strange concept to me, so I can't really speak to it. Is it really that different to identify with Tsuruchi Rin vs identifying with Tsuruchi Bounty Hunter, though? If they occupy the same place in my deck and have the exact same ability, odds are I would view them the same way. In both cases I can extend their story if I wish, the only difference being that in the latter case I have to come up with a name first.

I feel like naming non-unique characters is a much more fulfilling endeavor compared to slapping a "Hida Berserker" to a generic muscle-bound crab clan personality with no shirt on. It allowed people to identify with a certain character. It gave them familiarity when those names get mentioned in fictions. Sure now they've been name dropping famous clan personalities that were known to old timers, but to new comers? They just go "Ok who's that?" Atleast in the old model, when those non-uniques get some fiction love, people had some sort of background to them. Sure it's not always the case when cards come first before their introduced in the fiction. But atleast there were times when somebody gets mentioned, I can say "Oh he's the crab clan scout with one arm." as opposed to "Who's that now?"

People that have a problem with the old way had a problem with the same person having 3 copies on the board. But that was a problem brought about by costs. AEG could have printed 3 personalities with different names (and arts) but had the same abilities and all complaints would have been gone. It would also result in the removal of the Unique trait as a ruling of no-same-name could be employed.

L5R was so story-centric, and having characters you can identify gave it it's hardened community. People cheered for Tsukimi as she rose from the ranks. Players voted for Yoshihara to be blessed by the air dragon(?) Relatively unknown people (but still named) stepped out of the shadows to make their names known. Now, Lion's Pride Brawler is what? A single person or a person belonging in a group "Lion's Pride"? Who knows. And what if she gets an xp version? Will she be Lion's Pride Brawler XP? Will she get a name? How would people differentiate her as "the" Lion's Pride Brawler? Give her a "Lion's Pride Brawler XP" trait? How would they write her rise from the ranks be written if she was a faceless nobody to start with, a generic personality that can't be differentiated from the rest?