6 hours ago, Butterless Imperial said:

Personally I would like it to introduce the Vindicator Class or a Venator in place of the VSD, and maybe a FarStar or Sundered Heart like Cr-90 Refit or subclass for the Rebs along with an Assault Frigate. Along with Some Tie fighters and X-wings. I would make the Scenario based around Late War or Early both Giving reason for the Venator either as a Ship kept in Service or a Ship Refitted.

I like the idea of introducing the Venator (#teamVenator amiright?) but am not certain of the merits a second core set would possess - if it contains new range rulers, movement tools, dice, and cards, would those be different, updated versions of the current ones? If so, we'd be forced to buy it, and thus pay $120+ just to get into the game.

Aside from that however, assuming such a set as you suggest is released, I would suggest replacing the TIE/F and X-Wings with Interceptors and A-Wings, or something that we are not currently drowning in yet we also love.

Well personally I would Hope that Box two would be just a different route to get into the game, and not a way to bring in new Rules and tools. Unless it was a Force Awakens or a Prequal Box set like with X-wings. I personally want a Vindicator and a Venator, but they could also introduce the Acclamator. They could even switch it up and have 2 Imperial ships vs 1 rebel ship and bring in a Lancer or Carrack Both of which have been made Canon to some degree.

I would prefer to see 2 smaller single faction starter sets.

Convincing new players to buy the current starter set for both sides and then take 2-4 more upgrades to get a 400 point fleet is sometimes a struggle.

A set of ISD, Raider, 4 Tie-F 1Tie-B, 1 Tie-A, 1 Tie-I would be good. Include Howlrunner as the only Ace so there is still a reason to buy the Imp fighter pack #1.

Maybe a new Howlrunner like role. I feel the Vindicator would still be the best option, as it's till close enough to the Original Star Wars design, to feel Star Warsy for new players.

50 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

I would prefer to see 2 smaller single faction starter sets.

Convincing new players to buy the current starter set for both sides and then take 2-4 more upgrades to get a 400 point fleet is sometimes a struggle.

Agreed, but FFG's model is all about marginal value.

The whole game is set up so that each additional expansion you purchase gives you more list building options than the last one did (until you own 1-2x or more of everything). Buying an MC30 doesn't just give you an MC30 - it also gives you Rieekan, for (previously) a bomber fleet, TRCs that make for a great CR90 list, and so on. But now you kind of want to buy the Nebulon and Pelta expansions, which give you.... .....and so on and so forth.

Keeping the core set dual-faction lends itself to that model. You're more likely to buy an ISD if you already own a VSD.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

Agreed, but FFG's model is all about marginal value.

The whole game is set up so that each additional expansion you purchase gives you more list building options than the last one did (until you own 1-2x or more of everything). Buying an MC30 doesn't just give you an MC30 - it also gives you Rieekan, for (previously) a bomber fleet, TRCs that make for a great CR90 list, and so on. But now you kind of want to buy the Nebulon and Pelta expansions, which give you.... .....and so on and so forth.

Keeping the core set dual-faction lends itself to that model. You're more likely to buy an ISD if you already own a VSD.

Personally I started with Buying a Glad and 2 extra VSD's, liking numbers and possible Blitz or Pincer tactics. Probably going to go for a couple of Raiders before the ISD to help with faster Flanking, or maybe Arquitens instead.

Sorry I got a little off topic with that but, what about Sub factions? Factions that can use say Imperial and their own stand alone ships? Say an Imperial Remnant Faction that can Use most Imperial Ships but gets a few older Republic ones, or First Order Faction that gets Imperial Ships and a few First Order ones? Or Sub Factions that operate as like allies, Subjects or even Corporate Entities? For the Imperial Corporate Entities Get access to Vic I's but not ISD's along with Rogues and Villains and a Few Freighter Convert Ships? FFG would also add ships that these Sub Factions could Use but that the Main Rebellion and Empire Couldn't.

Now that's Just an Idea I would prefer Someone more experienced with the game to tweak it if they think it's a good idea, but I personally don't like the Idea of Entirely New Factions and instead would like a New Faction that can Use a limited Number of Older Ships, and a list of Newer ones some of which wouldn't be accessible to the Main Factions.

7 minutes ago, Butterless Imperial said:

and a list of Newer ones some of which wouldn't be accessible to the Main Factions.

This is generally considered to be a Business Model breaker.

It has to be accessible to a Main Faction. Main faction as either defined by what is in the/a core set, or, in the case of X-Wing and Scum, a "Most Wanted" Upgrade/Changeover Pack.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

This is generally considered to be a Business Model breaker.

It has to be accessible to a Main Faction. Main faction as either defined by what is in the/a core set, or, in the case of X-Wing and Scum, a "Most Wanted" Upgrade/Changeover Pack.

True, but I think if a newer Core set was to include a New Faction which was my understanding from what Svelok and Mad Cat were suggesting I wouldn't want the Game to Switch Focus to them, which is what I feel X-Wing has kind of Done. Instead the Newer Smaller Factions wouldn't recieve a whole lot of attention and would get probably repeat ships. Imperial Corporate Factions would probably use a older CR model probably a 70 or 80 maybe a 90 with less armament along with a Neb. They would have different Cosmetic designs and would operate in a similar way to their Rebel Cousin but wouldn't allow the Empire to Use them as it would take away from the Rebels advantage that they give them. For Rebel sub Factions, they would probably be Mon Calamari or Corellian so likely CR's and MC Cruise Liner basic Converts. Weaker variants other ships.

But as Before I would prefer too stick to Imperial and Rebel, and go with a Vindicator or a Venator. I also wanna see an Acclamator, but I think it would make a cool Rebel Ship with a Carrier and Battleship variants.

With Runewars doing what Runewars is doing in regards to Big-Box Cores, and Army Cores, and Essentials packs...

.. there are more options in the potential pile than there were 6 months ago, as business models go.

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

With Runewars doing what Runewars is doing in regards to Big-Box Cores, and Army Cores, and Essentials packs...

.. there are more options in the potential pile than there were 6 months ago, as business models go.

mmmm.... I haven't actually looked into Runewars, but essentially an Imperial/Rebel Starter? Thats something I might like, specially if you have a small potential Community who want all the tools but only wants to buy Imperial or Rebel, and to just play with those.

Just now, Butterless Imperial said:

mmmm.... I haven't actually looked into Runewars, but essentially an Imperial/Rebel Starter? Thats something I might like, specially if you have a small potential Community who want all the tools but only wants to buy Imperial or Rebel, and to just play with those.

They Started with a classic Two Faction Starter.

Then they're releasing, effectively (later in the year/early next), "Starter Armies" for the other two Factions (for a total of 4), and an "Essentials Pack" which is all of the Non-Model Non-Upgrade components of the Core Set... So you could buy supplies and then put together a force of whatever you want, with no bias in any direction...

Of course, there's always stuff in the "Classic" starter that is only available in the "Classic" starter. So there's always a reason to get it if you're a completionist sort.

I rather have something along these lines then a Reworking core set.

I also would rather see "Essential Starter" packs than a new core. Everything a new Imperial or Rebel player needs in a single box at a reasonable price.

Just now, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

I also would rather see "Essential Starter" packs than a new core. Everything a new Imperial or Rebel player needs in a single box at a reasonable price.

Well, that's the one thing we havn't seen.

Only as a 2-pack compromise.

Hmm. Starter kits?

Empire: VSD, Arquitens, Raider, Gozanti

Rebel: AF Mk2, MC30, CR90, GR-75

Strike price: ~$80

Be careful what you wish for...

I honestly see FFG doing an Aces style sets in the future. Ticked me off to no end in X-Wing. Here's a ship you don't need any more of, but packed with some upgrades that are really great. Instead of something new, we just rehashed the old.

Or slap a repainted VSD, Glad, A set of Gozantis, a raider and a light cruiser along with a smattering of squads in a box with all sorts of cards unique to that box (just enough to pull together a disjointed 400 point list). Toss in dice, rulers, etc. Call it an Imperial Aces starter set. Throw Thrawn in there to really get people hyped. And then sell it for $140.

Then repeat the process for the Rebels.

I've honestly resisted doubling up on some stuff due to FFGs handing of X-Wing.

4 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

Be careful what you wish for...

I honestly see FFG doing an Aces style sets in the future. Ticked me off to no end in X-Wing. Here's a ship you don't need any more of, but packed with some upgrades that are really great. Instead of something new, we just rehashed the old.

Or slap a repainted VSD, Glad, A set of Gozantis, a raider and a light cruiser along with a smattering of squads in a box with all sorts of cards unique to that box (just enough to pull together a disjointed 400 point list). Toss in dice, rulers, etc. Call it an Imperial Aces starter set. Throw Thrawn in there to really get people hyped. And then sell it for $140.

Then repeat the process for the Rebels.

I've honestly resisted doubling up on some stuff due to FFGs handing of X-Wing.

I would love this if they did it with an ISD I resculpt.

6 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

They Started with a classic Two Faction Starter.

Then they're releasing, effectively (later in the year/early next), "Starter Armies" for the other two Factions (for a total of 4), and an "Essentials Pack" which is all of the Non-Model Non-Upgrade components of the Core Set... So you could buy supplies and then put together a force of whatever you want, with no bias in any direction...

Of course, there's always stuff in the "Classic" starter that is only available in the "Classic" starter. So there's always a reason to get it if you're a completionist sort.

A major difference between Runewars and Armada/X-Wing is that people already had Runewars miniature sets from previous editions as old as 2010. A lot of people getting in now may be getting supplements for their existing armies, or only be interested in the new models, etc. Much like the X-Wing second core set, Runewars is designed to let you jump straight in without having to buy a new core set. Given that they are clearly jumping in to pick up the slack of the once significant Warhammer Fantasy crowd, this serves double duty by not forcing crossover players to buy new models and instead invites them to jump straight in by purchasing the essentials and a few compatible minis.

Armada could indeed use double core sets for two reasons:

Armada needs a cheap way to replace essential game tools including damage decks, range/distance rulers, and core upgrade cards.

Imperials are at a significant disadvantage with the VSD as a starting ship, as it has numerous mobility and tactical issues that aren't addressed with upgrades in the existing core set. In fact, the first major upgrades for it didn't appear until wave 4 (Tua), 5 (Jerjerrod) and 6 (Disposable Capacitors + QBTs). The only major reason people still buy the VSD is to acquire Motti and Flight Controllers, and the moment the latter becomes an alt-art pack I expect it to all but disappear from people's collections.

1 hour ago, thecactusman17 said:

A major difference between Runewars and Armada/X-Wing is that people already had Runewars miniature sets from previous editions as old as 2010. A lot of people getting in now may be getting supplements for their existing armies, or only be interested in the new models, etc. Much like the X-Wing second core set, Runewars is designed to let you jump straight in without having to buy a new core set. Given that they are clearly jumping in to pick up the slack of the once significant Warhammer Fantasy crowd, this serves double duty by not forcing crossover players to buy new models and instead invites them to jump straight in by purchasing the essentials and a few compatible minis.

Armada could indeed use double core sets for two reasons:

Armada needs a cheap way to replace essential game tools including damage decks, range/distance rulers, and core upgrade cards.

Imperials are at a significant disadvantage with the VSD as a starting ship, as it has numerous mobility and tactical issues that aren't addressed with upgrades in the existing core set. In fact, the first major upgrades for it didn't appear until wave 4 (Tua), 5 (Jerjerrod) and 6 (Disposable Capacitors + QBTs). The only major reason people still buy the VSD is to acquire Motti and Flight Controllers, and the moment the latter becomes an alt-art pack I expect it to all but disappear from people's collections.

I Actually quite like the VSD, but I guess it really matters on the type of player you are. I treat it like the Pz.4 H not the best but if you know what your doing you can make it work. But I also got a good deal on my Vic's 20 USD a Piece so I have to make them work. That also being said there really isn't a whole lot of Armada players in my Area so they don't go up against much. Usually light Fleets of Nebs, Cr-90s and Mc-30s sometimes with a Lib in the mix. Nebs being in good Supply using Numbers to force your way around and hit their week sides makes mine Vic's King. I really want to see what they could do against something more challenging like a Home One or an Assault Frigate just something that has good sides, the Liberty is really the only real threat I have. I also get wrecked on Squadrons as I haven't gotten the Imperial Fighter pack yet and got the Rebel Fighter Pack 2 for my reb fleet which a friend use's when we play, and he doesn't buy ships because he's a Turd.

I would like to See some altered Ships, like maybe a ISD or a Vic with Immobilizer domes, or a Vic with Deep Space communication Dishes, a Glad with an armored completed triangle replacing the Front Hanger. Something a bit different visually.

1 minute ago, Butterless Imperial said:

I Actually quite like the VSD, but I guess it really matters on the type of player you are. I treat it like the Pz.4 H not the best but if you know what your doing you can make it work. But I also got a good deal on my Vic's 20 USD a Piece so I have to make them work. That also being said there really isn't a whole lot of Armada players in my Area so they don't go up against much. Usually light Fleets of Nebs, Cr-90s and Mc-30s sometimes with a Lib in the mix. Nebs being in good Supply using Numbers to force your way around and hit their week sides makes mine Vic's King. I really want to see what they could do against something more challenging like a Home One or an Assault Frigate just something that has good sides, the Liberty is really the only real threat I have.

The issue with the VSD is that it can't close in on anything that doesn't want to close due to its slow speed and awful maneuver chart. Last night, I hit a VSD with the critical result that removes the last adjustable yaw at the current speed. Without Jerjerrod, he couldn't turn at all unless he had a navigate dial qeued up ahead of time.

When facing down a fleet of faster, more maneuverable ships the VSD has a major issue with just getting into engagements if the opposing fleet doesn't want to engage.

22 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

The issue with the VSD is that it can't close in on anything that doesn't want to close due to its slow speed and awful maneuver chart. Last night, I hit a VSD with the critical result that removes the last adjustable yaw at the current speed. Without Jerjerrod, he couldn't turn at all unless he had a navigate dial qeued up ahead of time.

When facing down a fleet of faster, more maneuverable ships the VSD has a major issue with just getting into engagements if the opposing fleet doesn't want to engage.

Yeah, I agree on that, I find that preparing a Defensive formation and avoiding combat and forcing them to fight on your terms is the best way around it. I usually move them into a rather broad line with two rather close in the Center and two on the flank, using 4 it kind limits the cards I can use but is the best way I find around it until I get a faster ship. I usually try and plan for a waiting game moving slowly in their direction while trying to Pincer them without getting too far away from my main Line. I almost always Target Nebs first due to the strong Front Arc and Weak sides, With the Side ships I try to force them to Turn then Speed up my Center ones, which can be annoying if they don't play along, but the Point is I like Vic's for a certain play style. I haven't really had a Chance to play with anything else though. Well Except my Glad.

Also that all being Said, I mainly just play with Friends, supplying each other with Ships.... Mainly me, because I have a Problem.

15 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

The issue with the VSD is that it can't close in on anything that doesn't want to close due to its slow speed and awful maneuver chart. Last night, I hit a VSD with the critical result that removes the last adjustable yaw at the current speed. Without Jerjerrod, he couldn't turn at all unless he had a navigate dial qeued up ahead of time.

When facing down a fleet of faster, more maneuverable ships the VSD has a major issue with just getting into engagements if the opposing fleet doesn't want to engage.

That's why the VSD is so much fun in Player 2 - come and get it builds

41 minutes ago, OgRib said:

That's why the VSD is so much fun in Player 2 - come and get it builds

Station assault and Int with grav shift reroute...