Blail. I thought you were giving us two months of peace?

38 minutes ago, jorgen_cab said:

You play it wrong then... the idea can for example be to tie up some bombers say a Tie-Bomber while sniping the Tie-fighter further back or to one side. It is all about the positioning of your squadrons.

Sniping range can more easily make you focus fire opposing squadron without the need for your own Intel.

The E-Wing work great as a support for your other squadrons, I don't think you should see them as a primary fighter but as a specialized tool.

Sometimes you don't need to use their snipe ability and that is fine to, you bring them for their utility which is good when you really need to use them.

They are not blunt instrument in that respect. You often never use the bomb ability of an X-wing either as one example, especially if you have many mixed squadron types in your fleet.

Have you actually got table-work to prove your point?

30 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Blail. I thought you were giving us two months of peace?

who said that?

I'm still complaining about the same thing

44 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Have you actually got table-work to prove your point?

I've got some E-Wing experience and if you play them right they are awesome in controlling the sqadron game

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Have you actually got table-work to prove your point?

I have used E-wings in exactly that way. Engage enemy bombers and fire on either fighters, Intel or Relay squadrons using snipe. Quite effective actually. But I would only run one maybe two E-wing squadrons in a 400p game.

Agreed. They are expensive for havong thwm in great numbers, but one or two can really make a difference compared to a stock X-Wing.

9 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

Yea at medium range sure. And only for corvettes.

and mc30, arquitins, quasar, raiders, hammerheads

11 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

people talk about having a "great time" wiht Ewings, but still haven't really made any good arguments as to when you'd rather snipe than simply attack with 4 dice in actually table scenarios (as opposed to theoretical). I've not once wanted to actually snipe something when I couldn't bash it in the head instead.

Really. great time. the best time. Trust me, I know what a time is. Yuge best time.

I used them quite effectively with GH. Jan to Brace and GH to reduce to 1 or 0, and I use FC to Snipe 4. It's quite effective at holding off alpha strikes. I also like to pair them with X-Wings.

One of the best things with E-Wings is the range you get. I just played a game on Saturday with 15 squads on the table and there was not a lot of room to move squads into the fight. All the prime positions were taken by my opponent so I had to fight through obstruction or I'd be outside activation range. It sucked. But with E-Wings, I get the extra range to sit back and make attacks on the same target and I don't fight for prime real estate with my other squads.

This is why I think 1 or 2 is the perfect amount to have. You are paying 2 more points over an X-Wing for +1 speed and Snipe. 2 points is excellent if you face Shara or a Howl/Dengar/Swarm ball. Shara and Tycho are very common in my games, both by me and my opponent, because they are the most annoying and cheapest pair of squads for Rebels.

Snipe is also great when you need to chase down the stragglers fleeing the battle. Range 4+2 is good at chasing.

I think people are valuing the alpha strike on Jan or Dengar. The chances of killing either are pretty slim. If you take 2, like I suggest, boost with FC and reroll with Toryn, you still need to get 3 damage to stick to Jan, and you need to do it twice. I don't think getting E-Wings out of position to kill Jan is a massive benefit unless you're able to do it very early and make sure you kill her. Leaving her at 1 health would suck and now your E-Wings are going to get engaged.

Snipe is a utility. It's not the prime mode of engagement. If you're opponent doesn't have Counter, there is no reason to Snipe. But in a tournament where you need to prepare for anything, 2 points is a very good investment if you're already taking X-Wings. The only thing you lose is any synergy with Biggs, and if you don't take Biggs, you don't really care.

24 minutes ago, starbat861 said:

and mc30, arquitins, quasar, raiders, hammerheads

I've only seen an MC30 get killed in a single attack once before. And it was to an Ackbar80 with Defiance and a Concentrate fire at medium range (10 dice). There is no reason an MC30 should ever die in a single attack. You need to deal 7 damage to a naked one, and even more against Admo or Foresight. You would need 2 Acc and for the Evade reroll to come up with damage, unless Mothma is running them. Then you need even more.

4 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

I used them quite effectively with GH. Jan to Brace and GH to reduce to 1 or 0, and I use FC to Snipe 4. It's quite effective at holding off alpha strikes. I also like to pair them with X-Wings.

One of the best things with E-Wings is the range you get. I just played a game on Saturday with 15 squads on the table and there was not a lot of room to move squads into the fight. All the prime positions were taken by my opponent so I had to fight through obstruction or I'd be outside activation range. It sucked. But with E-Wings, I get the extra range to sit back and make attacks on the same target and I don't fight for prime real estate with my other squads.

This is why I think 1 or 2 is the perfect amount to have. You are paying 2 more points over an X-Wing for +1 speed and Snipe. 2 points is excellent if you face Shara or a Howl/Dengar/Swarm ball. Shara and Tycho are very common in my games, both by me and my opponent, because they are the most annoying and cheapest pair of squads for Rebels.

Snipe is also great when you need to chase down the stragglers fleeing the battle. Range 4+2 is good at chasing.

I think people are valuing the alpha strike on Jan or Dengar. The chances of killing either are pretty slim. If you take 2, like I suggest, boost with FC and reroll with Toryn, you still need to get 3 damage to stick to Jan, and you need to do it twice. I don't think getting E-Wings out of position to kill Jan is a massive benefit unless you're able to do it very early and make sure you kill her. Leaving her at 1 health would suck and now your E-Wings are going to get engaged.

Snipe is a utility. It's not the prime mode of engagement. If you're opponent doesn't have Counter, there is no reason to Snipe. But in a tournament where you need to prepare for anything, 2 points is a very good investment if you're already taking X-Wings. The only thing you lose is any synergy with Biggs, and if you don't take Biggs, you don't really care.

Thanks for enlightening me

On 2017-06-26 at 0:52 AM, Blail Blerg said:

Have you actually got table-work to prove your point?

Blail, take a look at some of the Vassal logs from my Summer Tourney games. You'll see that with speed 5 E-wings (AFFM) and range 2 snipe, it's a HUGE threat area that enemies have to consider. If speed 3 Jan is in position to contribute, then you WILL be able to hit her with an alpha strike. There's no hiding from it.

Ignore the parts of the logfile where I lose the game.

6 hours ago, Maturin said:

Blail, take a look at some of the Vassal logs from my Summer Tourney games. You'll see that with speed 5 E-wings (AFFM) and range 2 snipe, it's a HUGE threat area that enemies have to consider. If speed 3 Jan is in position to contribute, then you WILL be able to hit her with an alpha strike. There's no hiding from it.

Ignore the parts of the logfile where I lose the game.

hahahahaha. That last bit though.

Not to be a downer or anything. But some serious talk, while I understand it has a huge threat area, does it actually deal enough firepower through snipe to be worth the 10 extra points you put into it? Whereas youre almost up yet another Xwing at that point. Or an Awing.

Another question I have is if snipe is ever useful for low squadron count lists, or is it a costly utility meant to be used in 134 vs 134 fights only? As thats usually what it seems to come out to now. Undeadguy's post was great, but it was also a GH build vs some squadrons in the other build (when you ahve more squadrons anyway, it seems the snipe utility is pretty diminished). Here also, you spent, 5x15 = 75 points on Ewings alone. Did you have other squadrons?

I note Gink makes some convincing arguments for Saber Squadron in a 90+ 6-piece squadron build. But at 90+ pts, add 20+ points for admiral, and 50 or so for flotillas, youre left is really little left to play with attack ships. It wasn't a fun meta, it wasn't even fun anymore to play like that.

(Also apologies, but I never got Vassal to work...)

42 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

hahahahaha. That last bit though.

Not to be a downer or anything. But some serious talk, while I understand it has a huge threat area, does it actually deal enough firepower through snipe to be worth the 10 extra points you put into it? Whereas youre almost up yet another Xwing at that point. Or an Awing.

Another question I have is if snipe is ever useful for low squadron count lists, or is it a costly utility meant to be used in 134 vs 134 fights only? As thats usually what it seems to come out to now. Undeadguy's post was great, but it was also a GH build vs some squadrons in the other build (when you ahve more squadrons anyway, it seems the snipe utility is pretty diminished). Here also, you spent, 5x15 = 75 points on Ewings alone. Did you have other squadrons?

I note Gink makes some convincing arguments for Saber Squadron in a 90+ 6-piece squadron build. But at 90+ pts, add 20+ points for admiral, and 50 or so for flotillas, youre left is really little left to play with attack ships. It wasn't a fun meta, it wasn't even fun anymore to play like that.

(Also apologies, but I never got Vassal to work...)

My list only has 3 E-wings.....it's just that they're speed 5 when I need them to be (thanks to AFFM). So, only 6 points over the equivalent X-wings. Other squadrons: 3x VCX, 1x YT-1300, 1 Z-95. Now, the list is hardly optimized as I entered it in the tourney with zero testing, but I have been pretty happy with how the squadrons have worked so far. Ships....less so. Ships in the list are 2 Peltas, Yavaris, and Jaina's Light.

My take on snipe isn't that I'm paying for extra firepower - I'm paying for the ability to reduce incoming damage. In a sense, I'm getting extra firepower over the course of the game because i can ignore counter 2-3-4, so my squadrons will be around longer to contribute. Think about that for a second - against Dengar/Howl boosted Interceptors, I'm denying the enemy four blue dice in return for dropping one of mine. Even against counter 2 you're coming out ahead.

From that point of view Ewings would suit a medium size fighter wing very well - your aim isn't necessarily to win the squad battle outright, but to hold off the enemy squadrons for at least a fair trade in points. Reducing incoming damage while still putting out a good amount of firepower is a great way to fend off enemy fighters while your ships go to work.

In the end, what Ewings offer over Xwings for 2 points more is increased tactical flexibility. Speed 4 and increased threat range really open up the options, including damage avoidance and allowing me to alpha strike even when going second. For the right list (and you do have to build around the Ewings a bit) they are excellent tools.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I note Gink makes some convincing arguments for Saber Squadron in a 90+ 6-piece squadron build. But at 90+ pts, add 20+ points for admiral, and 50 or so for flotillas, youre left is really little left to play with attack ships. It wasn't a fun meta, it wasn't even fun anymore to play like that.

Ewings and Saber play different.

Is this enough attack ships?

Jonus n' Jerry
Author: Ginkapo

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 392/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fighter Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
= 48 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
= 46 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 128 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
= 48 total ship cost

1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
1 Zertik Strom ( 15 points)
1 Captain Jonus ( 16 points)
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)
1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points)
1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)

Card view link

I have not used a small fighter screen with E-Wings. They have bomber, so it makes sense to me to run a multi-role fighter force so I tend to max it out. It's really fun being able to take on squadrons and take on ships. GH is certainly a good choice, because it's such a good carrier. But an MC80 would also do the trick, or a Leia GR-75 pushing all the suqads which will free you up for some other ships. And they can carrier BCC and Jamming Field, so you basically have GH already. You just miss out on the FC.

I think investing in a small amount of multi-role squads is incorrect. I can't think of a case where I'd want 2 E-Wings and Tycho and Shara. I'd rather have both aces and 2 A-Wings, because they are not there to win the squad game, just buy time for me fleet to work.

I think the struggle is finding balance in a fighter screen, which is also why Phantoms see so little play. Who needs finesse when you can just club you're opponent with X-Wings or Tie/D?

Like others have said, if you're going to use an E-Wing like an X-Wing, just take the X-Wing. It's finding a consistent use with these specialized squads that is difficult, and making sure you get their value.

10 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Ewings and Saber play different.

Is this enough attack ships?

Jonus n' Jerry
Author: Ginkapo

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 392/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fighter Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
= 48 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
= 46 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 128 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
= 48 total ship cost

1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
1 Zertik Strom ( 15 points)
1 Captain Jonus ( 16 points)
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)
1 Saber Squadron ( 12 points)
1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)

Card view link

As a qualititaive assessment, I've built plenty of builds with an ISD and two gladiators or two kittens and felt like that wasn't enough. Plus 2 gozantis and minimal squads 6 ints ish

Quantitatively, Id say that raiders also only count for maybe marginally .75 of a ships worth of anti ship firepower. Where gladiators and Cr90 and acquirers with relevant upgrades would be 1. The ISD counts for more but still.

Perhaps this is just wishful thinking to the days of wave 2 with two AFs and a shrimp with ackbar (more than 3 firepower) or vggg (4 plus room for squads) plus squadrons or clonisher (easily 5+ Or 6 or 7 with his variant. Full demo and expanded launchers).

sadly the first two are wiped out by activations. Though you might have room to squeeze the 5th gozanti into vggg and still run squads. The clonisher probably still is a good list of you drop some upgrades for at least 4 squads

You could make that VGGRGz if you wanted? I do think you are reminiscing about a time when all ships were very overpowered though.

7 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

You could make that VGGRGz if you wanted? I do think you are reminiscing about a time when all ships were very overpowered though.

Sometime... I miss that time.

Maybe with that Quad Battery Turrets, those day will come back