So I love the e-wing and its a cool fighter but for 15 points. It is comparable to an x-wing but is 2 points more with an extra speed and replacing escort with snipe 3. In my opinion snipe 3 is worst than escort because escort can be used with Jan ors but snipe gives you a very large threat range when activated by a ship. the way I suggest they could improve the e-wings is by replacing the red dice with a black one. Combined with bomber it would be a very good mix of an a-wings speed and jump strikes, the x-wings offence and health, and the y-wings bombing which would be fair for 15 points where the a-wing has a better chance of hitting than a e-wing with red dice and is 4 points less.

If they got a black die, you'd need to up cost, or drop bomber. Neither fots at 15, imo.

Just now, Darthain said:

If they got a black die, you'd need to up cost, or drop bomber. Neither fots at 15, imo.

Why yes it would be better than it is now but it is still 1.5 times the cost of y-wings and are already badly costed this would just make it fair

14 minutes ago, starbat861 said:

Why yes it would be better than it is now but it is still 1.5 times the cost of y-wings and are already badly costed this would just make it fair

Strong AA, snipe, speed 4, bombers is the issue, speed 4 is big, and alone worth the 2 points difference from x wings. Y wings are very weak antisquad. You want a perfect all rounder and not to pay for it.

9 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Strong AA, snipe, speed 4, bombers is the issue, speed 4 is big, and alone worth the 2 points difference from x wings. Y wings are very weak antisquad. You want a perfect all rounder and not to pay for it.

Hello I am a tie defensor, I cost 16 points, I hit the best antisquad, I move the best, I have one of the best hulls and I have bomber, just passing by, dont mind me.

6 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Hello I am a tie defensor, I cost 16 points, I hit the best antisquad, I move the best, I have one of the best hulls and I have bomber, just passing by, dont mind me.

Which... Proves the Point.

It doesn't have Snipe, and is still more expensive than the E-Wing, for a Bombing Capability that is, for all intents and purposes, identical until you add Sloane.

51 minutes ago, starbat861 said:

So I love the e-wing and its a cool fighter but for 15 points. It is comparable to an x-wing but is 2 points more with an extra speed and replacing escort with snipe 3. In my opinion snipe 3 is worst than escort because escort can be used with Jan ors but snipe gives you a very large threat range when activated by a ship. the way I suggest they could improve the e-wings is by replacing the red dice with a black one. Combined with bomber it would be a very good mix of an a-wings speed and jump strikes, the x-wings offence and health, and the y-wings bombing which would be fair for 15 points where the a-wing has a better chance of hitting than a e-wing with red dice and is 4 points less.

I think snipe can be a threatening trait in some circumstances, but its very overrated. I mean it fits in Corran Horn along with the rogue trait. Not so well in overcosted E-wings.

I tried my best to fit them in list with A wings + E-wings, in example, while the first engage and take the hits with counter the others can clean up from safety. Problem is that you will rarely have, as a rebel, a real good alpha initiative to do so and too often they get engaged before they can even use the snipe wich, in the end, is just the same battery as a normal A-wing. And they are hell expensive.

So I decided to forget about them and go all the way A's on my screens as the potential damage with counter is higher antisquad, and I find a black dice antiship without bomber more cosistent than the red bomber dice.

9 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Hello I am a tie defensor, I cost 16 points, I hit the best antisquad, I move the best, I have one of the best hulls and I have bomber, just passing by, dont mind me.

Defenders have blue anti-ship die. Bomber only gives them crit effects over non-bomber black die squadrons. It doesn't have Snipe, and while it hits hard, it performs worse against aces than any four blue squadron. They also don't synergize with the vast majority of Imperial ace squadrons or standard Imperial tactics. In short, they're only barely not underwhelming for 16 points, and this is coming from someone who still loves the capability they offer.

EDIT: Also, the entire point of Speed 4 is that now an Imperial commander has to have only Speed 5 squadrons in order to guarantee alpha strike. Speed 4 plus Snipe gives Rebels the opportunity to seize that initiative.

Just now, GiledPallaeon said:

Defenders have blue anti-ship die. Bomber only gives them crit effects over non-bomber black die squadrons. It doesn't have Snipe, and while it hits hard, it performs worse against aces than any four blue squadron. They also don't synergize with the vast majority of Imperial ace squadrons or standard Imperial tactics. In short, they're only barely not underwhelming for 16 points, and this is coming from someone who still loves the capability they offer.

Well in the last regional tournament I've been there was two imperials in the final, and a total of 12 tie defensors and 1 lambda in play. I know this is not the worlds, but should say something.

Just now, xerpo said:

Well in the last regional tournament I've been there was two imperials in the final, and a total of 12 tie defensors and 1 lambda in play. I know this is not the worlds, but should say something.

Precisely. It's an anecdote. You have given us nothing about either of the other fleets, the player quality, or the matchups they faced. In other words, this is meaningless for serious discussion. Good day.

5 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Well in the last regional tournament I've been there was two imperials in the final, and a total of 12 tie defensors and 1 lambda in play. I know this is not the worlds, but should say something.

Defenders are easily shredded, they are good generic antisquad, but their bomber blue die isn't much to boast about. They are a jack of all trades and it shows, they sacrifice on all fronts, just like the E wings red bomber die. Jacks need to be good, but not dominant, otherwise specilized roles are wasted. Now if you want AA, a swarm ball is better, if you want bombers, well, bombers are better. The Tie/d is a compromise that can do work and stand on its own, but cannot really be supported at all currently. Its good if you don't want to commit to one thing too hard.

You should really only use 2 E-Wings in a fleet. Korran is not worth the points. Take Flight Controllers and Toryn and that's effectively 5 blue dice at range 2 for 15 points. Or you can engage them and have 5 dice and a reroll. And it has bomber so take BCC.

E-Wings are **** good if you use them correctly. I expect them to get better with Sloane coming out since Tie/I or Dengar balls will be popular to trigger Sloane on the counter attack. Snipe gets around that.

I have used E-wings before. they are excellent at what they are meant to do-SNIPE INTEL to shut down bomber lists. 6 x E-wings cost 90 points, dont mess with your antiship capabilities much because they have the bomber keyword (0,75 antiship damage/turn), and put out 18 blue dice that ignore escort, dispatching the likes of Jan Ors and potentialy Dengar. you can get to 16 dice easier with just 4 x E-wings (60 points) and flight controllers. build them to ONE-SHOT INTEL VIA SNIPE.

once you have realised that this is their role, and dont try to turn them into something they are not, they work wonders.

Just now, GiledPallaeon said:

Precisely. It's an anecdote. You have given us nothing about either of the other fleets, the player quality, or the matchups they faced. In other words, this is meaningless for serious discussion. Good day.

Oh you want serois discussion all right, let numbers get serious.

Tie Defensor: 6 hull, 2,5 average damage antisquadron, speed MAX, 0,75 average damage antiship. 16 points
E-wing: 5 hull, 2 average damage antisquadron, speed 4, 0,75 average damage antiship (12,5% chance on double, 33,3% of nothing). 15 points

2 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Oh you want serois discussion all right, let numbers get serious.

Tie Defensor: 6 hull, 2,5 average damage antisquadron, speed MAX, 0,75 average damage antiship. 16 points
E-wing: 5 hull, 2 average damage antisquadron, speed 4, 0,75 average damage antiship (12,5% chance on double, 33,3% of nothing). 15 points

SNIPE(=the ability to hit the ALL-IMPORTANT intel squadrons without their escorts stopping you) PRICELESS.

2 minutes ago, Kikaze said:

SNIPE(=the ability to hit the ALL-IMPORTANT intel squadrons without their escorts stopping you) PRICELESS.

Well if youre expecting to take down a scatter/brace 4 hull dude in a row you must be a very lucky man. But lets make it happen, just for fun purposes. Then what?

You just took his intel guy out, assuming the guy has not any other intel in play, his ball remains unengaged so he is going to go after whatever he wants, therefore his intel worked. Isnt just better to go engage and spit the all four blue dices to the intel and keep the ball engaged at place? Can you see how useless snipe is?

4 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Oh you want serois discussion all right, let numbers get serious.

Tie Defensor: 6 hull, 2,5 average damage antisquadron, speed MAX, 0,75 average damage antiship. 16 points
E-wing: 5 hull, 2 average damage antisquadron, speed 4, 0,75 average damage antiship (12,5% chance on double, 33,3% of nothing). 15 points

Tie Defendor has a 25% of nothing too. Don't forget that. And they effectively have the same attack range. Not sure how 4+2 matches against 5+1 though.

I think staying out of engagement is important to consider.

E-Wings have access to Toryn, but Tie/D will have access to Sloane which makes their bomber dice more important. BCC is more effective on the E-Wing than the Tie/D.

E-Wings are better against Scatter aces since they have more blue dice. Defenders are better against generics.

I don't think there is a definitive answer on which is better. They both have their own roles.

Hera + Corran + 2 E-Wings = Oh, you didn't want those squadrons did you? No, I didn't think so. That gives you 10 Rogue Snipe dice each turn. Things tend to melt quickly.

Shara tears Tie/D a new one too. Snipe works well against her.

I've been experimenting with the A-wing/E-wing mixture mentioned casually on the forums a couple of weeks ago, too. I wouldn't say that what I've got is totally awesome, but I certainly believe they are playable. The centerpiece ship has been AF-B, Garm, EHB, Flight Controllers, and Toryn. There's a very strong alpha if you've got first player, plenty of room to position your squadrons carefully with lots of threat range if you've got second, and the ability to absolutely clean up any non-GH squadron game.

I think the fine art is tweaking how many E-wings you put in a list. And yes, that 15 cost versus cost value of most other squadrons does matter. I'd been running Tycho/Shara, 3 E-wings (for the EHB+token push) and then Corran in the background, but with Undeadguy, I wonder if less is better. One of the keys is that you really want to be able to snipe off Jan or Dengar, and you'd better have the points for that at the straight up investment. From there, you want to use the natural anti-squadron of the E-wings to win the rest of the squadron game, probably with 5 dice range-1 attacks. If you're just trying to win the squadron game with brute force, you're not far off from the 16 points of a YT2400 and the 8xYT2400 spam, so the critical idea is to be able to do just a bit more for less.

6 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Well if youre expencting to take down a scatter/brace 4 hull dude in a row you must be a very lucky man. But lets make it happen, just for fun purposes. Then what?

You just took his intel guy out, assuming the guy has not any other intel in play, his ball remains unengaged so he is going to go after whatever he wants, therefore his intel worked. Isnt just better to go engage and spit the all four blue dices to the intel and keep the ball engaged at place? Can you see how useless snipe is?

dude 16 dice will, on average, cause EIGHT DAMAGE. possibly more via accuracy blocks and/or torryn farr. of course they can kill Intel.

then what do his squadrons do? at worst, they will shoot at you for ONE TURN. it is in your hands to play the squadron game and properly block them for the rest of the game by engaging them.

let me make something clear: just because you wanna beat a bomber list via ship gunz, it doesnt mean you don't need to cleverly and properly play the squadron game with your fighter screen.

a bomber list still plays the ship game by defending/positioning against ship guns.

a ship gunz list still plays the squadron game by trying to shut down bombers-NO, you don't get to just ignore that part of the game.

Wait, this dude thinks snipe is worthless?

Sorry, don't have much interest in anything else he says.

Also, see Tie Phantom for REAL over-costed squadron garbage.

Why are people insistent on running E-wings as blunt instruments? If you want a big, dumb "SMASH THEM ALL!!!!" squadron, take X-wings. E-wings excel with 2-3 of them to target priority enemies with impunity and have the capacity to throw down up close if need be.

I don't think A/E is the ideal mix. If I face that, I'm going to mix it up at point blank and focus the E-wings down. An E/X combo is more ideal. The X-Wings can bring a Biggs and actually escort the expensive E-Wings for a while.

You don't hear complaining that Saber squadron sucks up close because people realize they shouldn't be used like that. I think if Ewings had 3-4 hull, people would play them smarter

I do have an E's and X's fleet that uses Jan, Norra, Wedge, Gold, 2 X-Wing, and 2 E-Wing supported by FC GH, Toryn BCC and another BCC. 2 TRC90s, 1 with Jaina's Light carrying Dodonna. It's quite an effective anti-squadron list, but also hurts ships with Norra, Dodonna and BCC.

@JJs Juggernaut is running a list similar to that in the Summer Vassal Tourny. Don't know if he has E-Wings though.