11 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

No, the squadron portion of Armada does not at all approximate a dogfight in a similar vein as X-wing.

The most important difference between the games in my opinion is that with Armada you're far less likely to have lost the game before you got to the table in the list building stage. Losing the "action economy" arms race in X-wing with your list is far more devastating than losing the "more activations" arms race in Armada.

With X-wing you don't necessarily need to have a plan before you get to the table. You can "wing it" a lot more in X-wing than you can in Armada.

This comes from the difference in the way ships activate. Before deployment in X-wing you have a good idea of which order ships will move and which order ships will shoot. With Armada's activations this is much more fluid. X-wing is move then shoot and Armada is shoot then move. So the thinking you have to do while similar is very different.

All very true. It's one of the reasons i like taking lists with matching pilot skills in X-wing; controlling fire/move order can be a huge bonus in both tricky manoeuvring, and being sure you can strip defensive tokens before your big threat lands. It forces opponents to think much more carefully about potential ship positions/orders than they often would otherwise.

You guys are great. This discussion really clearifyes some things for me. Ehat makes it so hard for me is that sometimes I don't have time or energy to get into a game I find interesting 100% there and then. But after a while I usually get around to put some time into it. And from experience this can be a mixed experience. Some games where not my style after all and they where sold or gifted away. Others where great buys. And yet a few would have been a great buy if I had had the time when I bought it to dig into it. This because they where either unbalanced or needed a few expansions but then it was too late due to discontinuation. This is why I found x-wing a little complicated at first. Because all the builds where you needed multiple ships of the same type. This time I'll just buy into what I think makes a great core build. And then I'll focus on Armada and buy the new stuff there ?

The advice I always give to people who want to dip their toe into X-wing, and still indulge in another wallet-consuming game like Armada, Netrunner, 40k etc is get one of each core set, then have a look at some of the ace packs (Imperial Veterans and Heroes of the Resistance, especially). There's often enough between just those to get genuinely decent lists on the table for both Rebel and Imperial, and they'll give you the ability to boost ships you get later, too. Scum take a small bit more investment because they're not in the cores (Most Wanted is kind of their personal core set), but you're all set for either/both of the other two factions otherwise.

Armada doesn't really have that kind of kick-start, but better mines than I should be able to give you an idea of where to start (aside from the core, obviously).

They are entirely different games really.

With Armada you get the big ship feeling right from the start, which X Wing can't touch even with Huge ships.

Dog fighting between fighters in Armada though doesn't really exist. It is basically simulated using the squadron engagement mechanic. Actual dog fighting as in X Wing requires fighters moving forward, making banks, etc, but they don't do that in Armada. In Armada your squadrons can move in any direction at any time until they get engaged with enemy squadrons, which basically prevents them from moving away until they fight it out (outside some other game effects that can free them).

I really like the two games in one feel of Armada though, managing your capital ships and also your squadrons.

One thing Armada has going for it right now is the effectiveness of ships aren't nearly as tied to getting specific upgrade cards as is in X Wing. In X Wing to build even a moderately competitive list you need to buy a series of ships you may have no intention of ever playing just to get some key over powered cards, or to get fixes for your ship. For example, just to fly a good Interceptor you need to get the Interceptor blister pack, then you need the Imperial Aces pack which doesn't come with the top ace pilot of course, but includes a couple must have title cards, then you need to buy what has been an obscure Scum faction ship just to get the Auto-thrusters card.... etc etc. Now to field 1 good Interceptor you've got 3 Interceptor models and a Scum model, all so you can get the 2 must have cards the Interceptor needed. Pretty much every ship is like that. For a good Y Wing you may need to get a K Wing for the turret card, a huge ship rebel transport for the right droid to plug in, and the Scum Most Wanted pack for the title card. $135 USD in just to fit out 1 proper Y Wing.

But with Armada you for the most part just need to buy the ships you actually intend on putting on the table, and the cards that come with them are just fine. Most of the power of a ship comes from the ship itself, rather than the upgrade cards stacked on top. Armada is arguably the cheaper game to get into because of this.

8 hours ago, Cusm said:

I would argue that X-Wing is cheaper. X-Wing seems to have more waves with more ships in each one released vs Armada waves. The last wave for Armada has 2 ships, the one before 2 ships and 2 squad packs. I avoided Armada for the longest time due to perceived cost, but once you move past the $100 core (vs $40 X-Wing core) I think Armada is actually cheaper or same value as X-Wing.

Well again as I said, it is not the cost but the initial cost. Buying one ship for each wave is cheaper than getting a 400 point standard list starting from the Core set (and I don't count second hand or split core sets as the starting point).

Now as for value proposition that is a more clouded topic. I do know why Armada core set cost more, for one it isn't 3 models but instead 13 models (counting all squadron bases as one). Also you get 9 dice instead of 6 and of course the templates and bases are more complex in design so yeah of course Armada core set costs more.

Now for continuity that is something all together. Sure Armada waves come out fewer an further between but is that really a good thing? But okay lest just go with the whole cost per year. X-wing expansion packs come out around $15-$20 for a small pack $30-$40 for large pack. Then you got the special releases be it the alternative paint scheme which comes around $30 to the Huge ship Expansions which are around $65-$100. Waves come out semi-annually with 3-4 expansion packs. Also between waves around 2 special release are also distributed year. So give a wave on average 3 small ships (avg $18) 1 large ships (avg $35) and 1 alternate paint pack ($30) and 1 huge ship which we will average around to $85. Also include the deal FFG made with Disney for a special release of 2 ships from the current movie (add 2 more small ships). You get around $329 a year.

So Armada they have a small ship that is $20 with a large ship that range from $30-$50. Their release 2 ships per wave but sometimes waves are combined (hence wave Thour). But armada is more than just ships. There is also squadron packs that come out about every other wave and those are $20. Some times they make a squadron pack dual faction but often they released in pairs one for each side. So lets average 2 waves each with 1 small ship ($20) 1 large ship (avg $40) and a squadron pack ($20). So add that up and you get $160 compared to X-wings $140 so Armada is cheaper right?

Well hold on, not so fast. That is just the collectors expense model. What is the competitors cost (not including travel expenses and entry fees)? Well lets go with possibly the most expensive build in terms of models, the swarm builds.

So for X-wing the most you can field. So cheapest in terms of squadron points is the TIE Fighter or the Z-95 for rebels. Lets go with the Tie Swarm since it was first. So core set gets you 2 TIE Fighters for $40 and you will need 6 more TIE Fighter packs ($15). That would be $130 for a TIE Swarm. Now for a full Armada Swarm list we will not be including flotillas (because that might be considered cheating) so lets go wit ha CR-90 swarm. Commander and squadrons along with 1 CR-90 will be from the core set so that would be ($100). For the rest of the swarm you can have up to 9 CR-90 B, Since we have one from the core lets pick up 8 Expansion packs ($20). So for the CR90 swarm that would be $260 compared to the $130 for the TIE Swarm.

Now sure you have upgrades to consider and other stuff. These are all just roughs estimates. It does cost more to get a game of Armada on the table for the same reason Armada's core set cost more, the model count per game for Armada is simply higher than that of X-wing. There are better ways to figure out the average expense for both games getting the cost to make each tournament list and average them out and such. I just don't have the time for that. I know X-wing has a han shop first list builder which helps you figure out how much a list would cost. I don't know if Armada has the same thing but one could do a more accurate projection. Sure X-wing releases more models per year but you might be good with just doubling up on a few where as armada if they don't double up on the small ships you might need to buy 4 of the smaller blisters. Still for me X-wing came first, I had a substantial collection when Armada was released and because of that I have decided to stick with X-wing and wait on Armada until I get a salary comparable to the one I was making before Obama's second term when sequestration terminated my career. Now if I was to start now, I really can't say because I would likely not be getting either due to my financial situation.

So which is cheaper? It depends on the player.