1 hour ago, Dr alex said:

No, he was a really nice bloke who didn't make anyone rage quit that I saw. Must be a different Ben

Oh I meant as in Ben-prime not as the "bad" Ben, as in no longer "a different Ben"..

Considering he has a lot of practice being a 'public' internet figure I should hope he was nice haha

5 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Birmingham meta buddy

Yeah but minnesota meta went all over the place!

Reading between lines here I can understand that:

A) Rhymmer is not that good, and it depends on the skill of the player who is playing it. And the result of the two imperials ending on top is because bad luck at the matching against "counter lists".

B) In the other hand we have a bunch of US guys claming to god and FFG to nerf Rieekan because the list, apparently, has some auto win button that requires zero skill from the player, and the matching in their "worlds" didn't have anything to do with it.

My toughts: can some one from the skilled A) group rhymmer users teach some tricks to our fellas in the west from the group B) so they can stop crying all over the place and making FFG release unbalanced **** for rebels so we can all have a balanced and nice game?

38 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Reading between lines here I can understand that:

A) Rhymmer is not that good, and it depends on the skill of the player who is playing it. And the result of the two imperials ending on top is because bad luck at the matching against "counter lists".

B) In the other hand we have a bunch of US guys claming to god and FFG to nerf Rieekan because the list, apparently, has some auto win button that requires zero skill from the player, and the matching in their "worlds" didn't have anything to do with it.

My toughts: can some one from the skilled A) group rhymmer users teach some tricks to our fellas in the west from the group B) so they can stop crying all over the place and making FFG release unbalanced **** for rebels so we can all have a balanced and nice game?

With point B you also have to look at the Rieekan Aces lists are insta win buttons argument while the next thread over is the high activation are insta win buttons and that these two arguments are almost by necessity exclusive from one another.

55 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Reading between lines here I can understand that:

A) Rhymmer is not that good, and it depends on the skill of the player who is playing it. And the result of the two imperials ending on top is because bad luck at the matching against "counter lists".

B) In the other hand we have a bunch of US guys claming to god and FFG to nerf Rieekan because the list, apparently, has some auto win button that requires zero skill from the player, and the matching in their "worlds" didn't have anything to do with it.

My toughts: can some one from the skilled A) group rhymmer users teach some tricks to our fellas in the west from the group B) so they can stop crying all over the place and making FFG release unbalanced **** for rebels so we can all have a balanced and nice game?

It happens already. Its called the Vassal community.

Notice how Ben didnt know about the power of the inside turn maneuver. Every single Vassal player does. Ideas and techniques spread like wildfire around the globe via that community.

This happened before and after worlds.

I'm curious... what is an "inside turn maneuver"?

5 minutes ago, jorgen_cab said:

I'm curious... what is an "inside turn maneuver"?

Shameless self promotion:

http://xwingtactics.blogspot.com/2017/03/the-art-of-turn.html?m=1

5 hours ago, xerpo said:

Reading between lines here I can understand that:

A) Rhymmer is not that good, and it depends on the skill of the player who is playing it. And the result of the two imperials ending on top is because bad luck at the matching against "counter lists".

B) In the other hand we have a bunch of US guys claming to god and FFG to nerf Rieekan because the list, apparently, has some auto win button that requires zero skill from the player, and the matching in their "worlds" didn't have anything to do with it.

I don't know personally about Rieekan's OP-ness, all I know is he was the man at Worlds and all the "top" players at my LGS swear by his power to bring all other squads to heel. Now those are facts, the former provable by lots of stats and the latter, well, you'll just have to take my word for it. Being new to the game, I really cannot play in local pick-up games for the simple fact I don't have any flotillas or Rieekan. Heck, I don't own a demolisher, but I've got a great set of Wave 1 and a few in 2. I learn quite a lot when I do play there, but as Im taught, I get crushed. Anyway, I digress; what I meant to say is, following the Euro games to the end has really excited me about the game!! I have an ISD and a Home One that I haven't yet fielded as Im getting use to my mid sized ships. I really hope their meta is more right and the US Reekan everywhere meta is simply an ignorant house of cards, if you will.....but I fear it may be the opposite, and he'll ruin the beautiful Euro meta soon.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

I don't know personally about Rieekan's OP-ness, all I know is he was the man at Worlds and all the "top" players at my LGS swear by his power to bring all other squads to heel. Now those are facts, the former provable by lots of stats and the latter, well, you'll just have to take my word for it. Being new to the game, I really cannot play in local pick-up games for the simple fact I don't have any flotillas or Rieekan. Heck, I don't own a demolisher, but I've got a great set of Wave 1 and a few in 2. I learn quite a lot when I do play there, but as Im taught, I get crushed. Anyway, I digress; what I meant to say is, following the Euro games to the end has really excited me about the game!! I have an ISD and a Home One that I haven't yet fielded as Im getting use to my mid sized ships. I really hope their meta is more right and the US Reekan everywhere meta is simply an ignorant house of cards, if you will.....but I fear it may be the opposite, and he'll ruin the beautiful Euro meta soon.

Keep the faith. Sloane is coming, and she should eat up aces & flotillas, as long as someone can come up with a list that doesn't sacrifice too much firepower for the fighter cover.

7 hours ago, Baltanok said:

Keep the faith. Sloane is coming, and she should eat up aces & flotillas, as long as someone can come up with a list that doesn't sacrifice too much firepower for the fighter cover.

Thats the problem my friend, you already had Rhymmer to counter that list. Now you will get Sloane&Qauasar to make Rhymmer even more OP if possible just to "adjust" the skill of players that find poor Rieekan list too OP. Further more, creating stupidly insane combos like Kallus + Quasar in the process, like happened with TUA + ECM + Gozanti. I Belive you Imps already had the resources, just didn't know how to use them.

16 hours ago, xerpo said:

Reading between lines here I can understand that:

A) Rhymmer is not that good, and it depends on the skill of the player who is playing it. And the result of the two imperials ending on top is because bad luck at the matching against "counter lists".

B) In the other hand we have a bunch of US guys claming to god and FFG to nerf Rieekan because the list, apparently, has some auto win button that requires zero skill from the player, and the matching in their "worlds" didn't have anything to do with it.

My toughts: can some one from the skilled A) group rhymmer users teach some tricks to our fellas in the west from the group B) so they can stop crying all over the place and making FFG release unbalanced **** for rebels so we can all have a balanced and nice game?

If you took 5 seconds to look at the worlds results, you would see that the "US Worlds" was won by a Canadian....just say'n. And, while a few folks from the "west" are "crying" about Rieekan aceholes, it's not all of us, but thanks for painting with a barn brush. ( That's making broad statements that encompass more than you meant to, just to explain western speak.)

But, I would like to take this moment to say something to those folks that KEEP trying to talk about OP and Meta destroyers. Stop. Please. Let wave 6 happen, and see what deviousness we, as a community, can come up with. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the threads that talk about analysis break down into personal diatribes against particular players and the same thing causes every single one. Using opinions and saying they are facts. I was at the "US Worlds" and it was skewed HEAVILY toward rebels, and in particular, Rieekan. This is a fact.

I also want to thank @Ginkapo and @Dr alex for their play by play and analysis on the Euro finals, which looked to be a great game. And Congrats to Ben and @Tokra for making it to top two.

I

Great to see Ben bringing pride to the Ben name.

I mean when I woke up yesterday, this was the best thread title I possibly could have seen.

Congrats to both players. Thanks to those providing analysis as well.

42 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

while a few folks from the "west" are "crying" about Rieekan aceholes, it's not all of us

Well I'm glad to know is not all of you, but they were certaily the most loud folks around here.

42 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

those folks that KEEP trying to talk about OP and Meta destroyers. Stop. Please. Let wave 6 happen

Wave six is going to happen, and is going to happen so badly unbalanced to the Imperial side because of those folks and "cryers" you name as minority. Again, naming "worlds" to a local meta causes this.

Agree with the rest, Euro finals where way more interesting and diverse.

18 hours ago, Daht said:

Oh I meant as in Ben-prime not as the "bad" Ben, as in no longer "a different Ben"..

Well, to speak more accurately, there never was an actual bad Ben. There was a player who ranted against a Ben, and that player's writings speak about his own character as much as needs be said. And a bogeyman Ben that the forum invented as a way to respond to what they perceived as obviously unfair remarks about the RL Ben in the original rant thread. Bogeyman Ben is going to go on for a while longer, I suspect.

Just now, Vergilius said:

Well, to speak more accurately, there never was an actual bad Ben.

Classic Ben right here.

On ‎04‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 2:08 PM, Ginkapo said:

So Dr Alex, how do you see Tokra preventing/mitigating an early loss of Demo to Bombers?

Just a word to this: i basically lost the match when i send in the demo this fast and with this stupid move. It was to far in and got to early attack from the bombers. I noticed it at this time, but was to late to change anything. I should have slow to speed 1 in the first turn, 2 left and ET for another 2 left. So get the Demo 90° around and facing to the left. Together with all the gozanti. This way he would have to chase me all the time. The ISD could not get in range untill the 5th or 6th round. So this one would have not been any danger.

This would have been the only chance i could have against this.
His 6 squadron activations at the start of each round really hurt. And this is what i should have taken care of.

The second strategic fault i made was the squadron fight. I thought about it later (and on my fly back today ). I was thinking like mad what i could have done to win this.
If i would have done a bomber fight after he send in his bomber for the first time, i could have a chance. He sending in his 6 bombers for 6 attacks on the demo. I am sending in my bombers against his to kill rhymer (might need the help from Saber in the end). After this i send in the gozanti with the jamming barrier to protect my bombers a little bit (he still has the Flight Controllers for the extra dice). Because i have gamma, he cannot fly out, unless he send in one of the jumpmaster. So either the bomber fight it out on their own, or one of us has to send in the fighters. Either way, the squadrons would have killed each other. As long as i keep stele and jendon in the end, i can hunt down gozantis with these two and the demo. He can not do the same with the ISD, because i can always move after him.

I am not sure if this tactic would have worked, but it would have been at least better than the fight i have done in the final .
Sacrificing the demo for a lonely APT crit was bad. But as i said, i made a bad first move, and this one cost me the game.

On ‎04‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 1:38 PM, Ginkapo said:

Bit of background.

They played each other very early in the swiss. Ben won that one by about 20pts. Tokra says his plan there was to avoid a big loss so took superior positions and deployed far away.

This will be a very different game.

Ben has 398 points, i have 400. So he could choose on both matches. He took Superior position on the first match, but this way i could avoid the fight well to good.
He didn't want this again in the finals. Especially because it could really well backfire, when i could win the squadron fight. He only won the first game because of so many victory tokens that he could get into the Demo. I was really close in the first match, and a few more victory token for me could have changed the game around.

So he took Most wanted this time. And protecting the ISD with the squadrons and the gozanti, so i could not hammer the ISD with 3-6 blue dice from each gozanti. Basically this was my plan. To go in with all the gozanti, the bombers and the demo. But, as i wrote above, i messed it up with the demo move. So the tactic with the combine attack was gone.

Is it weird that, when I read all of Tokra's posts in my head, it sounds like Christoph Waltz?

To be fair to Tokra, I have no idea if he is Austrian, but that is the common mistake we westerners make is that all German sounding actors are, well, German. Except for Arnold. That's just some weird slurring....

On ‎04‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 3:16 PM, Dr alex said:

A bit more analysis:

Lack of intel for Tokra has really hurt here. Ben's been able to use his bombers as bombers and his fighters as fighters, despite being in an absolute mess of a squadron fight. Tokra has been stuck using TIE bombers as sub-par fighters against either proper fighters or tanky bombers rather than trying to take down more gozantis. It's a race against time for tokra's bombers and they are wasting their time trying to shoot stuff that isn't going to make a difference

No. The lack of Intel was not the problem. I have Chiraneau for 4 activations.

It was the squadron fight that i lost. He killed 4 of the 5 squadrons with perfect rolls. No crits at all. Always the hits he need to kill them.

I had to use the Bombers as fighters because my fighers were all killed to fast. I could never scatter, because he had always the accuracy he need. He had no crits, so always 3 hits and an accuracy or 2 hits and 2 accuracy. There is no way you can win a fighter combat against these rolls. And once i lost all my fighters, with only killing his mauler, the squadron fight was lost as well.

My jamming field was to far away. this one would have help. because it would have reduced the damage my squadrons were taking.

On ‎04‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 3:37 PM, xerpo said:

Sooooooooo, is it a good time now to claim about the game-breaker rhymmer or we need to call this "worlds" for it??

The lists were really well mixed. And there was a counter for each list. Ben lost two games in the swiss.
One was a really great lists that beat squadrons (and rhymer) without big problems. I guess it was made against rieekan, but works against rhymer as well.
The second was a 6 ship activation double tap MC80 that can take down the ISD really fast (i heard he did one shot the ISD in the swiss). Combined with 7 A-Wings (5 generic and two ace), he will win the squadron fight after the ISD is gone. If you cannot activate the squadrons anymore, you are going down.

The funny part is, that i did not have so much problems against these two lists. I had the counters for these (Chiraneau, Jamming Field and 6 ships).
But Bens list is a really good counter to mine. His big ISD and the many squadrons making it hard for me. If i would have been the choice who can start, it would be something else. If i am first player, it give me a bit more choices to make.
So it was a well done Stone / scissors / paper that we had .

So there was nothing broken or overpowered in this EC. It was really well balance, and there were counter lists for everything.
If Ben would have to fight Aresius in the top 4 (or in the final when i would have lost), he might have lost again. The pairings of the cut were in his favor. Because the Ackbar list was easier for him than the Dodonna would have been.

At least we can say that the EC had a better mix of lists and final than the worlds had. We have at least some good imperial players .

2 hours ago, xerpo said:

Wave six is going to happen, and is going to happen so badly unbalanced to the Imperial side because of those folks and "cryers" you name as minority. Again, naming "worlds" to a local meta causes this.

Agree with the rest, Euro finals where way more interesting and diverse.

I will point out two things here. First is that FFG is pretty good at discerning "cryers" and not overreacting to a vocal minority. Second, I doubt the "cryers" after worlds and Euros had anything to do with effecting the development of Wave 6. Wave 6 was announced long before all that started, which means it's production must have started even sooner. For all we know FFG could be waves ahead in the development cycle.

Ah Tokra had Chiraneau.

Well that invalidates half the commentary.

Ah well, sports commentators are not supposed to be accurate.

5 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Ah Tokra had Chiraneau.

Well that invalidates half the commentary.

Ah well, sports commentators are not supposed to be accurate.

They;re also supposed to be Overpaid.

.... I'll envy you now

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

They;re also supposed to be Overpaid.

.... I'll envy you now

I paid to be there!