Your imgur links aren't working for me, Gink. Don't know if it is just me, though...

1 minute ago, ianediger said:

Your imgur links aren't working for me, Gink. Don't know if it is just me, though...

I have the same problem

Isd kills a flotilla with bomber help. Valen Rudor dead as well.

4 minutes ago, ianediger said:

Your imgur links aren't working for me, Gink. Don't know if it is just me, though...

Not much I can do on my phone. Only link i can copy.

A bit more analysis:

Lack of intel for Tokra has really hurt here. Ben's been able to use his bombers as bombers and his fighters as fighters, despite being in an absolute mess of a squadron fight. Tokra has been stuck using TIE bombers as sub-par fighters against either proper fighters or tanky bombers rather than trying to take down more gozantis. It's a race against time for tokra's bombers and they are wasting their time trying to shoot stuff that isn't going to make a difference

Good Analysis. Lack of escort from both players here. Just Tokras black squadron.

The lack of intel is something I noticed in my games all weekend. With Mauler Saber and Jendon in my list it was quite disappointing to only have one hwk and one jan to splat all weekend.

I think every rebel list I played had Jan in it. Didn't see many jumpmasters though.

Tokra kills a flotilla by ramming. Bens jump and mauler are dead.

2 minutes ago, Dr alex said:

I think every rebel list I played had Jan in it. Didn't see many jumpmasters though.

Makes sense. Jan is often brought for her braces.

Tokra concedes at the end of turn 4

Ben wins

Sooooooooo, is it a good time now to claim about the game-breaker rhymmer or we need to call this "worlds" for it??

8 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Sooooooooo, is it a good time now to claim about the game-breaker rhymmer or we need to call this "worlds" for it??

Did they have 6 Rhymerballs in Top 8?

16 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Sooooooooo, is it a good time now to claim about the game-breaker rhymmer or we need to call this "worlds" for it??

Birmingham meta buddy

where does one get a hold of that ship card tray hes using?

1 minute ago, TerrorScream said:

where does one get a hold of that ship card tray hes using?

@ManInTheBox potentially

Congratulations to Ben! Sounds like a hell of a tournament!

20 minutes ago, PT106 said:

Did they have 6 Rhymerballs in Top 8?

While trying to avoid getting dragged into an unpleasant arguement about a small detail I think the reason there were two imperial bomber lists in the final is that they were the weakness for aresius and my lists, particularly rhymer for me as it makes my corvettes extremely vulnerable. The final was won by Ben because he had a better squadron mix for fighting imperial bombers and an ISD supercarrier is a better super unit than demo. Don't take anything away from Tokra or Ben, they were both clearly very very good at armada, but the match ups make a big difference.

thats on the basis of the four person micro tournament that was the semis and the final. You then need to look at the reasons why we were in the top 4.

I think the main reason I ended up top four was that my list was a very good counter to other list types, aresius' list probably has the same sort of threat profile. The way our lists are put together you either win big or lose small (unless something catastrophic happens), that helps a lot in swiss. That in turn pushes out of the top 4 potential some of the fleets who we were very good against, who may have caused a lot more trouble for Ben and Tokra. I left a lot of Biggs balls lying stranded in space with no fleet left around them which would have been tough for imperial bombers to face.

In short, I think armada is actually spectacularly well balanced. If I can get top 4 with a list I came up with while drunk, which does not resemble the Internet meta at all, and my head really really hurts from all the thinking I had to do to get there, something has to be right and it's not that there are completely undefeatable I win lists which ruin everything.

but what do I know, armada is dead.

ps I completely destroyed a rhymerball list in the swiss

10 minutes ago, Dr alex said:

While trying to avoid getting dragged into an unpleasant arguement about a small detail I think the reason there were two imperial bomber lists in the final is that they were the weakness for aresius and my lists, particularly rhymer for me as it makes my corvettes extremely vulnerable. The final was won by Ben because he had a better squadron mix for fighting imperial bombers and an ISD supercarrier is a better super unit than demo. Don't take anything away from Tokra or Ben, they were both clearly very very good at armada, but the match ups make a big difference.

thats on the basis of the four person micro tournament that was the semis and the final. You then need to look at the reasons why we were in the top 4.

I think the main reason I ended up top four was that my list was a very good counter to other list types, aresius' list probably has the same sort of threat profile. The way our lists are put together you either win big or lose small (unless something catastrophic happens), that helps a lot in swiss. That in turn pushes out of the top 4 potential some of the fleets who we were very good against, who may have caused a lot more trouble for Ben and Tokra. I left a lot of Biggs balls lying stranded in space with no fleet left around them which would have been tough for imperial bombers to face.

In short, I think armada is actually spectacularly well balanced. If I can get top 4 with a list I came up with while drunk, which does not resemble the Internet meta at all, and my head really really hurts from all the thinking I had to do to get there, something has to be right and it's not that there are completely undefeatable I win lists which ruin everything.

but what do I know, armada is dead.

ps I completely destroyed a rhymerball list in the swiss

Don't get me wrong, I totally get it (And it is a good analysis overall). I still believe that one particular archetype (and it's not a rhymerball) is is too tilted on the win big-lose small scale, but lets not go into that discussion. And your top 4 is a result of a amazing fleet building (as well as a skilled execution) as you found a way to reliably kill carriers for tabling squadron heavy fleets in a flotilla-heavy meta (I used the same strategy in wave2/wave4).

Rhymer is pretty great but not really that important once you start to utilizing other tactics. If you take the same list as the winning list above and replace Rhymer with say Howlrunner and replace one tie-fighter with a tie bomber you will do equally well. It is more about the player and how good they are at doing the tactical moves. With enough Intel you can usually bomb equally well without Rhymer and with more anti-fighter power destroy the oppositions ability to mount a defense OR attack you because you can destroy their bombers or fighters much quicker. As shown above the Imperial fleet rely on large activation to capitalize on their Tie-fighters Swarm and offensive glass hammer abilities.

As long as you have a well balanced list that give you a multitude of opportunities you can then rely on your skill rather than luck on the dice.

13 minutes ago, jorgen_cab said:

Rhymer is pretty great but not really that important once you start to utilizing other tactics. If you take the same list as the winning list above and replace Rhymer with say Howlrunner and replace one tie-fighter with a tie bomber you will do equally well. It is more about the player and how good they are at doing the tactical moves. With enough Intel you can usually bomb equally well without Rhymer and with more anti-fighter power destroy the oppositions ability to mount a defense OR attack you because you can destroy their bombers or fighters much quicker. As shown above the Imperial fleet rely on large activation to capitalize on their Tie-fighters Swarm and offensive glass hammer abilities.

...You can't honestly mean this. Rhymer is in fleets for a reason. It's not like someone flips a coin and decides between Rhymer or Howlrunner. It doesn't mean Rhymer is game-breakingly amazing but he's a staple of Imperial bomber fleets because of his effect.

Just now, Snipafist said:

...You can't honestly mean this. Rhymer is in fleets for a reason. It's not like someone flips a coin and decides between Rhymer or Howlrunner. It doesn't mean Rhymer is game-breakingly amazing but he's a staple of Imperial bomber fleets because of his effect.

Yes I do... I have done both many times and I really now favor more anti-fighter capacity for slightly less dynamic bombing capabilities. I have been in many situation where Rhymer was not really pulling his weight and more anti-fighter capability would have been better. bombers with Intel do pretty much the same damage anyway. The Idea are basically to jump in a large bomber strike with an Intel ship and have the opponent react to it and then follow up with Howlrunner and her Tie-swarm to kill of the opponent ability to oppose my squadrons effectively. The Bombers then simply jump out using Intel for another target or at another angle of the same target.

I do like to pair regular bombers with a Corrupter Victory for +1 range on the bombers, can be beneficial with that extra range.

Against a Rhymer list playing as the rebels you would more or less just ignore it and either bomb the **** out of them cheaper (per point) or kill their anti-fighter capacity in turn two/three and then go after Rhymers bombers and pin them down so he can't effectively Intel you. Works pretty well and confuse a player using it...

There are many options available to you if you look for them.

7 minutes ago, jorgen_cab said:

Yes I do... I have done both many times and I really now favor more anti-fighter capacity for slightly less dynamic bombing capabilities. I have been in many situation where Rhymer was not really pulling his weight and more anti-fighter capability would have been better. bombers with Intel do pretty much the same damage anyway. The Idea are basically to jump in a large bomber strike with an Intel ship and have the opponent react to it and then follow up with Howlrunner and her Tie-swarm to kill of the opponent ability to oppose my squadrons effectively. The Bombers then simply jump out using Intel for another target or at another angle of the same target.

I do like to pair regular bombers with a Corrupter Victory for +1 range on the bombers, can be beneficial with that extra range.

So your problem is the overall ratio of bombers to fighters and not specifically with Rhymer, basically. I also often find that Rhymer bomber fleets lean too hard on bombers and support to the detriment of their fighter element. That's a weakness for sure but it's not inherent to Rhymer and certainly not required in fleet-building.

Quote

Against a Rhymer list playing as the rebels you would more or less just ignore it and either bomb the **** out of them cheaper (per point) or kill their anti-fighter capacity in turn two/three and then go after Rhymers bombers and pin them down so he can't effectively Intel you. Works pretty well and confuse a player using it...

I know how to handle Rhymer fleets, thanks.

Quote

There are many options available to you if you look for them.

Take your patronizing "everybody else just does whatever's popular but I'm sure they'll see my point if they just sit down for once and think about things like I do" comments someplace else, please.

6 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

So your problem is the overall ratio of bombers to fighters and not specifically with Rhymer, basically. I also often find that Rhymer bomber fleets lean too hard on bombers and support to the detriment of their fighter element. That's a weakness for sure but it's not inherent to Rhymer and certainly not required in fleet-building.

I know how to handle Rhymer fleets, thanks.

Take your patronizing "everybody else just does whatever's popular and doesn't think about it like I do" comments someplace else, please.

I'm sorry if you felt my comment was patronizing, that was not my intent. The comment was not target to you specifically but more of a general statement.

I just meant there are alternate strategies that work and sometimes people tend to fall into the same patterns and don't experiment and see that there are other equally interesting way to play and do equally well.

But I do think you got my point correctly. In my last battles I have rather put emphasis on a few fighter aces rather than bomber aces and I feel it works best for what I try to do. The reason being there are more none squadron based upgrades on ships that make anti-fighter squadrons better and point spent there synnergize better with with using, say an extra plain bomber squadron instead of Rhymer and more powerful fighter aces and plain Tie-fighters/interceptors. Although I usually play at 600p not 400p so my experiences might be colored on that fact as well where Aces in general are sightly less important.

So in addition to the trophy, templates, free flight/hotel and ticket to worlds..... Is he officially the "main" Ben now in Armada?

20 minutes ago, Daht said:

So in addition to the trophy, templates, free flight/hotel and ticket to worlds..... Is he officially the "main" Ben now in Armada?

No, he was a really nice bloke who didn't make anyone rage quit that I saw. Must be a different Ben