Yeah it is the library of some female scion of the Haarlock dynasty IIRC ... must be the Radical's Handbook or Ascension, probably the first.

yeah it is in the radicals handbook, page 209, Lythea Haarlock's tomb. A small bit in I might use when I expand the Haarlock Legacy campaign.

Salcor

Ok, my local gaming group just finished Haarlock's trilogy and I'm lost as to the outcome. After reading this thread it seems that either I missed a great deal of fluff during the adventure or the GM left a lot out. I did miss the first adventure book, but played through book 2 and 3.

At the end of the trilogy my group decided to stop Haarlock's return. I voted to let him return in hopes of preventing the future destructions, but most of my group thought Haarlock was responsible for the future rather than an alien race. More specifically, they thought by Haarlock returning would allow the Slaugth to wage war on the Callixus (I think that's the name) sector.

Even after reading this thread I'm still not sure what's going on at the end of the story. I realize there are no hard answers, but I've got a few questions.

1. What is the result of stopping Haarlock? We stopped him at the end game and then nothing. The GM didn't explain anything.

2. What is happens if Haarlock is allowed to return?

3. When viewing the future visions, are the different war scenes the same vision or different depending on whether Haarlock returns or is stopped? We went through 2 war scenes after walking through different mirrors. Was one the result of Haarlock returning and the other due to the Slaugth?

4. What is the warrant? I never heard the GM mention a warrant.

5. Who is the old Hag a then end?

Thanks in advance,

Dan.

CptCaine said:

Best I can do is the info above. At work , no booknerding ability.

Uhm, just one thing. It's most certainly not " Baby Yaga", but rather "Baba Yaga". Yaga, which looks like a derivative of "Yagoda"/"Jagoda", being a traditional rural female name; meaning "bilberry", and "Baba" being a word denoting "Old, unpleasant woman", common for several Slavonic languages. Trust me, Baba Yaga used to be my childhood scare. Or so my parents reckoned.

Bloody spelling errors. LOL. Baba Yaga is who I was referring to.

Tut-tut, lad, tut-tut

CptCaine said:

ad 1) well the trilogy stops here. It is hinted at that when Haarlock is not allowed to return, there will be no megathreat against which the various factions of the Ordo Calixis can unify. With factional infighting and a divided humanity, the sector is ripe for the picking by the Slaugth.

ad 2) again, up to the GM. They say Haarlock has no friendly intentions for the sector. Perhaps he continues his quest for his lost wife and daughter. Most likely he does present such a threat to the sector that the Inquisition gives up its internal differences to face him, thus maintaining a closed front.

ad 3) the vision with the Slaugth hunting humanity through the ruins of a once-proud sector is when Haarlock is not allowed to return.

ad 4) the famous Haarlock warrant, which outlines his trade charter, his routes etc. Every Rogue Trader has such a warrant for him to run a legit business. The warrant is ancient. Whoever has it, can claim the Haarlock legacy. The whole infighting in the Haarlock family was caused by this warrant, everyone wanted to get his hands on it. Finally, Erasmus triumphed by slaughtering every descendant of the Haarlock line.

ad 5) the Hag of the planet of Dusk (see the rulebook), Old Mother Ruin. A terrible and mysterious entity that can grant wishes or something like that, has the answers to everything, but if you need her help you must give something up to her which is very precious to you. Guess what Erasmus Haarlock gave up ... (see 4)

The Laughing God said:

Thanks, seems I missed quite a bit of the fluff and/or the GM didn't provide enough.

CptCaine said:

Seems that way. Bit of a pity, cause the strength of the trilogy is the whole sense of this ancient doom returing to plague the sector.

I would definately agree. The sense of doom is really well represented throughout the trilogy. I know that I held off running them for bit to build up the charcters in the game, to let them have a feel for the type of devestation that would unfold. I actually ran the vision sequences presented and also added another half dozen to personalize it. A couple I used were the party's inquistor ordering exterminatus of his homeworld to deny its assets to Haarlock(his world is a major source of promethium for the sector) and Haarlock's return to the scion's homeworld to exterminate her family.

I like the personalization that you added. That is the way to really draw the characters into the storyline. If you don't make it personal would they really care that this world in particular is was destroyed.

Salcor

Salcor said:

It has always been my experience that players like it when the game gets personal. They like the game. they may dislike me.

Don't read, Bolthole folks!

The personal touch, eh? How about solving a mystery too?

In the big crusade for the sector let us suppose that Haarlock fought the Yu'vath around Orbell Quill. This solves many problems for me.

- A player is the Scion
- This player ostensibly has family
- This player 'wants out' after Dead Stars (after presumably 'pwning' Haarlock, in his view) and can take a new character (as, either way, it'll be done, right?)
- I need to take them back to Orbell Quill, we've been there a few times. (Once as our group's very first gaming session, a few more times as we figured things out through the first few sessions with different characters then more recently with them in passing after escaping from Quaddis)

Anyway, the character can't return home now as he's too old for the curse, can't revisit his family and generally is annoyed with Haarlock/the Inquisition for ruining everything.

My solution? Well, Haarlock and Yu'vath fight in high orbit of OQ long long ago. But Haarlock doesn't land, simply claims. The Yu'vath are beaten and pursued. The Imperium settles eventually. How does this solve it? Eventually some Haarlock family settle there, thus setting up the scion situation. The curse? Well, the curse is simply a relic of half-baked, not-properly-dispelled-or-gone-awry Yu'vath Sorcery. But I said make it personal, right? Well, one of the acolytes (my one) from the first session didn't get killed on-screen (it was simply assumed that guards would kill him after mega team-fail) and so they run into him aboard OQ's primary Orbital Station in the far future.

What's happening then? Haarlock and the Inquisition are fighting in orbit. Or rather Haarlock's beaten the Inquisition in orbit. They'd tried to evacuate important things from OQ, but Haarlock outplayed them and reached it first. He now knows he has surviving (albeit distant) family here. The player's family. But Haarlock's already won; he's deployed cyclonic torpedoes and the planet's already beginning to split apart. The players can only really watch...and find out information. Or try even more outlandish schemes. It's opportune, but not crucial. It's personal.

I also have a few other key links to other players and other Legacy/History notes of importance. We expect to play RT after concluding Dead Stars, so bringing in the Yu'vath a bit is a good way to work it in a little.

Anyhow, it's good. I like it. I've also exchanged the person they meet on Solomon for my old acolyte when another player was GMing (he did DC, I did TF and DS) and need to change a few bits.

Some other ideas I have include exploring more 'mad' bits of the Calixis Sector lore. Possibly introducing a 'third axis' wherein in-party decisions have outcomes which are independent of Haarlock but much more to do with whether one of the player survives or had done something differently. Any other examples of this sort of thing?

Not sure I understand what you're talking about, Xisor

Hello there Xisor, long time no see . Bravo on seeing what Eramus gave to the Hag... that *COMPLETELY* slipped past me.

Just wondering, has anyone pointed out the link with the Seven Devils of Calyxis in the The Radical's Handbook under Xanthites, the last one being "The Dark Traveler" whose return is said to Herald the destruction of the entire sector? Or how about the Recongregators searching Calaxis for a key that's supposed to open some kind of door causing pandora's box to open with the vague hint of it being beyond the veil of sleep or somesuch and then the key in the Haarlock's possession being the "key to beyond the portal of sleep"? Interesting too, with that last part, how the key is supposed to be the beginning of the end of the Sector being thrown into war (kind of makes you wonder if Eramus failed because whoever was supposed to get the key didn't, doesn't it?)

And, I will quote Barrington J. Bayley and Ian Watson (the two of the three original 40k writers, the third being Xisor's favorite writer ever, Gordon Rennie): "All that is, was, and could be can be made anew in the warp". It would be mighty helpful to Eramus Haarlock if an Eye Of Terror-style warp portal opened inside the Calixis Sector, allowing him to mold reality as he willed, wouldn't it? Also, let's not forget the warpstorms (such as the Maelstrom, the Eye of Terror was formed by the birth of Slaanesh) are created by very, very powerful daemons attempting to burst through the veil into reality. Of course, a single powerful daemon only makes a planet-spanning warpstorm. An unbelievably powerful daemon could cover a sub-sector. Multiple unbelievably powerful daemons could potentially cover an entire sector.

Also, I have a pet theory that explains Marr's involvement (providing he really is Ordo Sicarius, the Ordo charged with overwatching the Assassins). If anyone looks at Codex: Assassins, it is discovered by the Eldar that the Culexus(sp?) Temple is based upon a barren planetoid that circles the out fringes of the Halo Stars. If the Tyrant Star is truly a warp phenomena (everything that we've encountered in the Haarlock Legacy Trilogy and Enemies of the Imperium suggest this), then a planetoid containing a literal army of the most powerful, well-trained psychic blanks in the entire Imperium equipped with technologies capable of increasing their already impressive abilities would certainly qualify as something to counter it. Thus, all the Inquisition has to do is hold out.

Ah yes, let's not forget the Midnight Child whose supposed to be an Alpha-Plus Psyker of unbelievable power and the child stolen from a planetary governor by the "Servants of Twilight". That somehow fits into this, though I'm not sure (Perhaps the key can only be turned by a psyker? Perhaps the Dark Traveler needs someone of greater psychic potential than Haarlock to make a transition?)

Oh yes, and as for the key, The Harrowing is potentially one of the Seven Devils of Calyxis. They're trapped somewhere within (or beyond) the warp... perhaps the key is to unlock their cell?

The Baron said:

Yes, check out the very first post of this here thread I've always found the bit you describe the most interesting part of the Haarlock enigma. It suggests Haarlock himself may return a Daemon. The key is even more mysterious. There is a key to open the portals of sleep amongst the auction inventory in Tattered Fates.

As for the Harrowing ..what is the Harrowing again? Where can I read up on that?

The Laughing God said:

The Harrowing are mentioned in the Radicals Handbook on page 122 and they sound a little like Necrons if you ask me. Anyway, I do not see them as having anything to do with the Seven Devils of Calyx, because all of them are named.

I am wondering if Haarlock is the Traveller, or did he help create the traveller? To be honest if he is the Dark Traveller, then the Haarlock Legacy really needs to be fleshed out a lot more.

Luthor Harkon said:

The Harrowing, Nerons?

One of the Seven Devils of Calyx is the Empty Hunger. They are said to be around the Drusus Marches/Shrine World and to be extinct xenoforms. The Harrowing are Xenoforms that were sealed away by an ancient weapon of the Adpetus Mechanicus. They are said to be the reason why so many planets in the Drusus Marches are filled with empty planets, totally devoid of life. They are definitely creatures of the warp and the Necrons' anathema is the warp. Also, the Sentinel Worlds are where the Necrons would originate from seeing as how they have pylons buried there which have a warp-negation effect. At least, that explanation fits if Warhammer 40k lore still fits.

As for Haarlock returning himself, great Cegorach, would you accept my theory that Kormus/The Tyrant Star is the Lord of Misrule, a Greater Daemon? Kormus/Komus/etc. was labeled as the Lord of Misrule and his holiday, in ancient Roman times, was noted for it being a day when the laws and conventions of society were thrown out the window entirely. Servants would rule and whip their masters, while their masters would clean in place of the servants. This fits with the description of what happens when the Tyrant Star visits a place.

The key itself, I feel is (forgive the pun) key to this entire mystery. I'm not quite sure how it fits, but the connection of The Harrowing being The Empty Hunger and them being "locked up" fits rather nicely.

Salcor said:

He fits being the Dark Traveler, my friend. After all, he's the kin-slayer and (if memory serves me) was referred to as the "Dark Traveler" before. Your question is a good one, Salcor, as to what came first. I will say that, in my humble opinion, Eramus Haarlock, at the end of the Haarlock Legacy, was the Dark Traveler. And, if the description of the "Good" victory is to be counted, appears to have become one with the Tyrant Star in some way. If the theory holds water that the Tyrant Star is a Greater Daemon/Warp Entity and its ascension sparks the beginning of several other Greater Daemons/Warp Entities, causing a truly epic Warpstorm to form, then it would help explain why Eramus Haarlock would be willing to sacrifice his very soul to the Dark Traveler/Lord of Misrule/Kormus. A warpstorm where reality holds very little to no sway is his only hope...

The Baron said:

They are definitely creatures of the warp? Why this? Anyway, any connection to The Empty Hunger is weak, not to say absent.

The Necrons are active (or become active) throughout the whole galaxy and are not restricted locally (after all they move FTL and even appeared in the Sol system). The terms 'Harrowing' and 'Echoing Vault ' alone sound like being associated with Necrons, let alone "vast labyrinthine contrivance seemingly spun of dust and magnetism", "disobeyed known physical laws" and "removed both from euclidean realspace and the empyrean seas of the warp".

"We are born for a darker purpose than that of mere existence. There will come a time when stygian night never ends, where dead stars will spread before us like islands that slumber on the ocean, and when the beings that hid like shadows will feed on us forever. "
- Adept Corteswain at the Omniastery of Selethoth, shortly before his disappearance

"They will seek to harvest us at first, for they will be hungry after their long sleep. Then they will turn their efforts to enslaving the survivors. The galaxy will bleed the stench of death into the void, and it will attract the others of their kind. We must choose unity or death. "
- Maechu, Farseer of Ulthwé

"It was silent as the void, and to look upon it was to know terror. It drifted above us with slow, liquid grace, and its gaze caused madness and despair wherever it fell. those it came near took their own lives rather than endure its hellish presence. "
- Morillia q, Harlequin Shadowseer

Luthor, I have reading 40k lore for over a decade now (This is not meant offensively, this is to establish the fact I'm no newbie in need of instruction). I'm well aware they're active throughout the galaxy and I didn't dispute things as much as you think; see my reference to the Sentinel planets containing anti-warp pylons.

"This vast artefact - perhaps an embassy from an unknown realm of existence - unleashed a wave of horror never before seen on an unsuspecting and unprepared mankind...

These entities disobeyed known physical laws and close proximity to them alone was enough to kill or drive the unprotected mind insane ...

...where the Mechanis employed a forbidden weapon of the Dark Age of Technology to destroy their foothold and seal the breach between dimensions through which they had passed ...

...others favor different explanations of the myths - a mangled misinterpretation of a Chaos incursion, a short lived warp rift, or even some long forgotten Tyranid precusor hive . Some few who know of the story wonder if somewhere in the vastness of their silent other realm, removed from both euclidean realspace and the empyrean seas of the warp, the Harrowing yet wait patiently for the hour to return"

They are creatures of the warp in one way or another. Have you read Xenology? If you want a quote you'll have to give me quite a bit of time to dig it out of storage, but you'll find the Orks are on a different warp plane than the rest of the world, possessing an "Ork Hivemind" or "Orkish Subconcious" if you will. They are still affected by the rules and laws of Euclidean Space/the Warp, of course. Thus, you can hypothesize that this might be another alien race with a similar field going on.

Also, if you wish to pursue the Necron argument a bit more, look up the location of the Dyson Sphere and read a bit more about the Outsider. The working in some kind of other-realm makes the chances of it being a Necron incursion go down (particularly seeing as how said Seven Devil would then negate the warp effect... unless of course you consider the pylons on Sentinel, in which case it's the removing of a safeguard keeping the Eye of Terror from spilling into the Calaxis Sector), however if it involves the Dyson Sphere is nearby (i.e. Somewhere near the sector at the very least), then I can see how your theory might hold a bit more. Read up a bit on the real Tesseract (not the one Haarlock ran around in). Necrons work purely in real space, but there are certain real-space mathemtical tricks that can mimic the warp a bit.

Actually Luthor, the more I try to fight your Necron thesis, the more I find myself supporting it LOL. Would you be willing to polish it up a bit? I'd be interested in pursuing it to a logical conclusion if you would as well.

Regarding the Harrowing: The Yu'vath.

They're responsible for the patches of *dead stars*, aren't they? Their super-chaos sorcery could well be wrapped up in a lot of stuff Haarlock did. And they're largely missing, aren't they?

With regards to the Necrons. I'm ambivalent. The inclusion of the Necrons is a confusing point because their pre-awakening state could itself be quite confused. What happens to Necrons who're sucked into the warp? Utterly destroyed? What if they incorporate 'little geller fields' to generally preserve their teleporation?

Similarly I don't buy the C'tan+Warp=Death for C'tan silliness promoted widely in other places than here. I think Komus *could* be the maddness of another C'tan. Dispatched into the warp, yet still 'loosely preserved'? Yeah, I could see that. Less ridiculous than a C'tan being on the tabletop.

Komus a greater daemon? Yeah, I could see that too. But I think 'greater daemon' would surely be a misnomer. It's a warp infused entity, I'm convinced of that.

What about a possessed C'tan? Like a C'tan with a little daemon-man in the head controlling the little ideas of a god?

Anyway, my point is that I don't see such things as utterly impossible as explanations, mainly because they're actually more plausible (IMO) than stuff we already have.

Link it to the Warp gate and I think you've got a clear link from Deathwatch: its a remnant of the War in Heaven. Where do the Yu'vath, the Slaugth and such fit into all this? Was Komus an Old One weapon that misfired?

I think it's a good bit more complicated than that, but the obvious 'top tier explanation' is whether it's linked to the War in Heaven (the complex interplay being more complicated than 'there were two: Old Ones vs C'tan, then Eldar Gods vs Chaos) or whether it's a lower-than-War In Heaven thing.

I'm betting War in Heaven level, but I could be wrong.

(And I think it's a perfect opportunity for my multi-god stuff, like the Emperor being a vague reincarnation of Vaul, Qah being Khaine etc, Komus being an Old One/C'tan who suicide-bomed/kamikazed a C'tan/Old One...)

Summary: Necrons, not yet. I think there are more interesting explanations involving the Necrons' background that don't involve the reveal being "It's the Necrons!". Harrowing=Yu'vath? TheBaron's top-of-post quotation about the Harrowing gives me hope on the Yu'vath.

You know what I'm about to ask Xisor... citations for Yu'vath! This is the first time I'm hearing about them (if they're a Deathwatch-only thing, I'll be asking for a bit of transcribing or summerization). Also, what's this with a warp gate? (Again, as a fellow learner/scholar, transcription or summerization, please! )

As for this going back to the War in Heaven time period... I'm not too sure that Kormus is such a weapon. The link between Kormus and "The Lord of Misrule" is too strong IMHO. Of course, I can see how this is going to go. You'll cite it can't be Chaos because of the fact in Realms of Chaos and Chaos Marines Codex (3rd Edition) it specifically states that humanity created Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeencht seeing as how our psychic potential was unguided, while the Eldar created Slaanesh because of them straying from the teaching of the Old Ones. I'll cite the fact that daemons are in fact just broken fragments of their patron Gods (Chaos Daemons Codex, Realms of Chaos, Inquisition War Trilogy, Eye of Terror, etc.). You'll turn around and cite that the warp is just a multi-dimensional space through which lower dimensions can be manipulated and that in the upper-levels where the Gods roam emotion and thought rule. I'll point out how the warp is shaped by said emotion and thought, thereby if this forum was in the 40k universe, then we all as a group could imagine a god into existence to make us kings (at a terrible price, judging by Baphomet). You'll then point out how the Old Ones could manipulate the warp and used it against the C'Tan seeing as how they lacked psychic potential to control the warp (i.e. the higher levels of dimensions) innately and, having no innate connection, only sought to limit it. I'll fire back with the idea that Kormus had to have been created by something. You'll point out to me that all aliens lack the psychic potential and the Maiden Worlds, created when the Eldar were young (i.e. either pre-Necron to post-fall), all bear a obelisk giving a signal to friends to avoid this area. I'll point out that we don't know when this pylon was placed. You'll point out that, when Haarlock investigated this place, he found nothing in the way of Eldar, but did find something along the lines of said Obelisk (the pulsing that the Astropath described).

This all leads me to have to acknowledge your theory as very plausible. It also leads me to the same conclusion as you that our two explanations are not mutually exclusive.

Also, as always Xisor, though this is horribly off-topic, I have to point out that your idea of the Emperor being Vaul in disguise and Qah being Khaine is a bit out there, even for me who supports the Star Child. For one thing, Vaul was one of the many gods eaten by Slaanesh. For another, Qah/Khaine have two totally different Modus Operandi (albeit they were both torn apart by Chaos Gods, though lore has it that Khorne fought Slaanesh for Khaine's soul allowing him time to split, while Slaanesh had just ripped Qah into pieces to linger and suffer). As for the C'Tan and the warp... I think you, Lucan, and I established from citation of text that it wasn't so much that the warp was instant death as they simply feared it seeing as how it's something that they can't control (at least I think it was us who came to that conclusion lol). Of course, if we take the trippy SciFi of Realms of Chaos (and the writings of William King) to its fullest extent, the Chaos Gods are all a single schizoid entity and every single creature in existence is linked together at the point where positive and negative infinity meet each other (think Hawking with his theory that existence is circular... three-dimensionally speaking lol).

By the way, if the Yu'vath are in the Radical's Handbook, then I'll be learning more about them shortly.