First, the list I took to worlds.
Madine's Dancers (5.2)
Author:
Vergilius
Faction:
Rebel Alliance
Points:
387/400
Commander: General Madine
Assault Objective:
Close-Range Intel Scan
Defense Objective:
Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective:
Navigational Hazards
GR-75 Medium Transports
(18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
=
20
total ship cost
GR-75 Medium Transports
(18 points)
-
Bright Hope
( 2 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
=
27
total ship cost
GR-75 Medium Transports
(18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
=
20
total ship cost
MC30c Scout Frigate
(69 points)
-
Admonition
( 8 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
=
94
total ship cost
[ flagship ]
MC80 Battle Cruiser
(103 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
=
171
total ship cost
1
Tycho Celchu
( 16 points)
1
Shara Bey
( 17 points)
2
A-Wing Squadrons
( 22 points)
If you're just joining this thread and are unfamiliar with either me or my previous posts, then I'd invite you to do a search for the Houston and San Antonio Regional reports on the list. If you have followed my posts in the past, you'll recognize the above as the latest in the evolution in the list.
I started running Madine and Liberty in October in response to boredom with previous lists. For the most part, I had up until this point taken fairly major ideas from the forums and designed lists out of them, played them for a bit, and then tried something else. Justin (Brikhause) had encouraged me to pick a clear list concept and stick with it, since that is a great way to get really good at the capabilities of what your lists can do. Although I don't endorse this viewpoint entirely, I do think for the purpose of a competitive season, that it is worth sticking to a key concept. Unfortunately, the competitive season was pretty long across Regionals in November, December, and February, with an interruption for wave 5.
You can read my Houston AAR in particular for a good description of playtesting and redesigning of a list. Here's a really quick recap.
In our meta, we have Justin, the 2016 World's runner-up and the real pioneer of the Rieekan's Aceholes list. Since that build denies points in the squadron game, I built the list with two key insights. First, I took Q's comment on his nationals list about the squadron game as "the game within the game" and expanded it to look at objectives, ship-on-ship, and the squadron game as three separate subgames. I then looked at Ginkapo's conceptual comments in his Ackbar Star Destroyers list, where the point is to run first and only put one ship in danger at any given time, while using squadrons to dodge/stall just long enough to win the ship contest. That basically represents the theory-crafting behind my Madine approach. If I cannot win the squadron game or even score many points against some lists, can I simply deny that part of the subgame as much possible and win elsewhere. A second key aspect of the list design is that we have a major MC30 activation spammer in the area. This is a second very tough list archetype to match-up against, but one that can conceivably do well against squadron heavy builds. So if you don't have a way of dealing with MC30s, you don't have a good list.
In retrospect, the addition of everything that came with wave-5 made it much tougher for this list to work. The objectives are now much more brutal when going first against a squadron list. It was to the point where I really considered just going second despite the generally large bid for first. In fact, if those Pelta lists were generally picking up 90 points from whichever objective, then it was minimally worth denying them those points even if it meant going second. Strategic was another big consideration, and thus I went with objectives that wouldn't give anything to those lists. The objectives are not hugely favorable to me, but they generally keep worse things from happening to me. Relay means that some of the goal of popping flotillas became less viable as those flotillas can fly all over the board and stay back while their squadrons pummeled you. Norra improved the damage capacity of some builds. Even some Defender builds had the dice to wreck A-wings, and A-wings are right at the cusp where you want the opponent to kill them in two or more shots to maximize the number of counter rolls you can make. Basically, wave-5 provides a lot more tools for other builds to play against this one.
Evolution of the ships and upgrades:
MC80 BC: I've gone back and forth between BC and SC in my time with the list. The BC builds are much more expensive, but you really notice that loss of flexibility in the upgrades and red dice. And getting an extra black AS die is just a bonus over the SC variant. Although both variants can be quite competitive casually, I think the BC just matches up better to the higher levels of competition. H9/QTC: I had previously used Spinal Armaments. After all, if you are Gunnery Teaming your shots, an extra die helps, right? Much of the goal is to make the MC80BC the most reliable flotilla killer. I've certainly played plenty of games where removing those activations caused some lists to absolutely crumble. The point of QTC is to guarantee a second accuracy at red range looking both evade and scatter on a flotilla. From there, it may require a bit of luck, but it is perfectly conceivably to kill one flat out at red range, and quite possibly to put the right damage on it to kill with a ram or double ram. Furthermore, there are quite a few Liberty targets that really start hurting when a second or even third accuracy gets applied to their tokens. The H9/QTC guarantees two accuracies against the two redirects on an MC30. Finally, if you are shooting an ISD or VSD with ECM, you can always spend a blue accuracy (non-damage) to reroll the red accuracy that you just added from QTC. So you're not really losing out on that extra spinal die after all. Finally, one thing that really led me to QTC was it potentially applied to any arc. And sure enough, some side arc shots with two red accs and at least a point of damage came in handy.
The only other comment I can make is that I really like Skilled First Officer. You get some Slicer Tool or Comms Noise protection on your dial. I've tried Major Derlin and Raymus, but with Comms Netting flotillas, you get plenty of utility without the need for Raymus. Derlin is good, but also expensive, and points can be at a premium.
MC30 Scout: I really missed the CR90 in the old versions of this list. I also had plenty of games where the MC30 just wasn't doing all that I'd hoped it would do. So what I was looking for was a way to make it much more competitive and stronger. Could I get more shots on the way in and the way out, while still delivering the payload that MC30s know and love. I think the Scout officer really thrives on the Intel Officer, but I really wanted my bid, so I just went with a generic Skilled First Officer.
Beyond that, I find that Toryn powerfully boosts the A-wings and their counter, and can offer Admonition a little boost to its AS Flak. You also get some subtlety with the Liberty's blues in anti-ship attacks if you need to reroll a blue to fish for either damage or an additional accuracy. The squadrons can be overwhelmed with the right kinds of set-ups, but against many set-ups, they do a splendid job.
I was really still unsettled about my list going into Worlds, since I wasn't at all confident about the answer to squadrons, fearing that they'd really become too powerful. In all honesty, it might be that a list like Aresius that really goes hard-core into the squadron game might be what is required. The Liberty is the single most important ship in this list, which means bid and activation set-up are fairly critical to its success. It is weak against squadrons, so keeping squadrons off of it is pretty much required. Of course, to go that route flies in the face of what I'm generally trying to do here by point denying in the squadron game. Worlds is in the books now, and Wave 6 and whatever adjustments FFG makes to the game will likely seal these questions off in the history books.
More on the match-ups in the next post.