6 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

I don't understand Krayts shitting on this Top 16. It was still 9 rounds of X-Wing these players had to go through. Same amount as Worlds. On top of that they **** on the winning list for having Leebo with Countermeasures and say he hasn't learned to "dodge arcs", that's like saying Why take Dash, you can't avoid rocks or something?

The call for lowering Dash down to Leebo was a great call because of 2 things. The only PS7 pilot that see's competitive play is Old Teroch and you ain't going to win that Initiative Bid. So just drop it down to Leebo. You win the RacLo matchup, but more importantly when your opponent gets their eventual torp shots on you or Fenn Rau gets his Range 1, you drop that TL and now have 2 Focus and LW to back you up.

I like the Krayts and haven't disagreed with them much but they sound like the people who first looked at Dengaroo and said, that's *** they only got 2 Jumpmasters and even have Countermeasures in the list. That's crap. Without looking at the full picture.

For what it's worth - Chris lied to us and said the swiss was 7 rounds, so we didn't think this was the "true" top 16, but more random.

Separately, we might absolutely be wrong, given that I had seen dengaroo on paper from the ohio regional results, and it still caught us all offguard at US nationals last year - we literally did not understand all of the interactions until it was walked through to us (and to our general detriment) live. That said, "Dash/Miranda" was on our radar as a good rebel squad. This is effectively still dash miranda (in the sense of a 4-die HLC + bombing miranda), so it should fit within that archetype (but we might need to rename it - I'm soliciting suggestions!).

Meebo is my vote.

On 6/4/2017 at 3:03 AM, Sunitsa said:

Juan Del Rio is a top spanish player, he reached 2016 Italian SoS top 8 among other results.

I'm supporting him and Shane who is a an awesome dude

I play with him all weeks. He has been testing his list with us vs diferent lists during some weeks. He went to european really prepared.

18 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

For what it's worth - Chris lied to us and said the swiss was 7 rounds, so we didn't think this was the "true" top 16, but more random.

Separately, we might absolutely be wrong, given that I had seen dengaroo on paper from the ohio regional results, and it still caught us all offguard at US nationals last year - we literally did not understand all of the interactions until it was walked through to us (and to our general detriment) live. That said, "Dash/Miranda" was on our radar as a good rebel squad. This is effectively still dash miranda (in the sense of a 4-die HLC + bombing miranda), so it should fit within that archetype (but we might need to rename it - I'm soliciting suggestions!).

I'll stand by what we said, or at least what I remember of it, though apparently I was lied to and the correct number of rounds WERE played.

A lot of these lists are unoptimized or, quite honestly, strictly worse than other variations. I don't know if the unavoidables at the event contributed, or what happened, but when I watched the stream (including the cut) the lists and level of play were low.

Granted, usually by round 12 of a tournament the level of play isn't pretty.

On 5/3/2017 at 9:11 AM, KMitchell said:

Oh I'll be there

If you're lucky, I may have a few Finquisitor cards with me

On 5/3/2017 at 9:40 AM, Kharnete said:

I'll be there. I'm too lazy for the travel required for Worlds, so yeah, European that's it

I need one of those! I'm also bringing a good deck of cards of my own to gift and/or trade for other unofficial things.



Retro Maarek/Farlander are dual cards. Braylen too with Thane in the other side with the same art, which is the scheme I use in one of my ARCs (Norra's is the other).

Hey, completely off-topic, I'm a rude American busting into your guys' thread, but how do you make those custom cards? I also enjoy making custom cards to give to friends, but they're usually very home-made-looking with my color printer, some cardstock, and some laminating paper. Is there a card-printing service you use, or a special tool? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

1 hour ago, Oldpara said:

I wonder if he really played this list, or there is a typo, coz it doesn't fit 100 pts

Congratulations on the results mate. Really impressive!

Am I right, that you only lost to Poles?

Oh right, no unhinged on the scout. Mixed 2 lists up, my bad

Yeah all games I lost at Euros were on stream. The first one could have gone either way, but I do like to think that in the top8 match after the first round of shooting it really was heavily in my favor. He got really lucky But then again, he is a very good player, nothing but mad respect for the guy for pulling a win from that impossible situation. Dice variation is part of what makes this game great (although sometimes frustrating too)

19 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Hey, completely off-topic, I'm a rude American busting into your guys' thread, but how do you make those custom cards? I also enjoy making custom cards to give to friends, but they're usually very home-made-looking with my color printer, some cardstock, and some laminating paper. Is there a card-printing service you use, or a special tool? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

No idea on KMitchell, but in my case I use MakePlayingCards to print them. Ideally I would use a local printing office to do something of similar quality, but I've found the price there not too bad and it's too convenient for not use it even if the shipment can last some weeks to come from China. I've used them 5-6 times already and I've been always quite happy with the results.

To create the card itself I use Photoshop, but there are other easy ways to make them (hello Strange Eons ).

7 minutes ago, Kharnete said:

No idea on KMitchell, but in my case I use MakePlayingCards to print them. Ideally I would use a local printing office to do something of similar quality, but I've found the price there not too bad and it's too convenient for not use it even if the shipment can last some weeks to come from China. I've used them 5-6 times already and I've been always quite happy with the results.

To create the card itself I use Photoshop, but there are other easy ways to make them (hello Strange Eons ).

Thank you so much! Great links/information! I will definitely be trying these out!

42 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'll stand by what we said, or at least what I remember of it, though apparently I was lied to and the correct number of rounds WERE played.

A lot of these lists are unoptimized or, quite honestly, strictly worse than other variations. I don't know if the unavoidables at the event contributed, or what happened, but when I watched the stream (including the cut) the lists and level of play were low.

Granted, usually by round 12 of a tournament the level of play isn't pretty.

I do agree that they are unoptimized in a vacuum, but I do believe they are optimized for the current meta that was there. Much like Travis' analysis of the types of players. The winner seems to be the type that tweaks an existing and proven archeotype to have a better chance versus the meta.

Also, my friend just sent me this message:

Leebo/Countermeasures is a bold choice, but not as bold as the other guys choice to wear sweatpants and a fanny pack out in public.

48 minutes ago, Brunas said:

A lot of these lists are unoptimized or, quite honestly, strictly worse than other variations. I don't know if the unavoidables at the event contributed, or what happened, but when I watched the stream (including the cut) the lists and level of play were low.

"Better" and "optimized" is always relative to the meta. I heard from people who were there that there were many less Jumpmasters than they thought there'd be, and there were relatively few DengarTel, for example.

Is it possible that lists that are optimized for Worlds or the US Nationals (which will have a very similar meta, because travel costs and politics) would not be optimized for the European Championships?

48 minutes ago, Sarcon said:

Yeah all games I lost at Euros were on stream. The first one could have gone either way, but I do like to think that in the top8 match after the first round of shooting it really was heavily in my favor. He got really lucky )

Ken (Bartosz) is my clubmate. He played 3x triple jumps on his way to the final and battle against you was toughest one. Dice Gods were on his side definitely, but I think even against 1,5 Jumpmaster without Miranda it would be doable with only Dash, taking pile of stress on one into consideration. Yet Miranda was invincible so...

2 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

I don't understand Krayts shitting on this Top 16. It was still 9 rounds of X-Wing these players had to go through. Same amount as Worlds. On top of that they **** on the winning list for having Leebo with Countermeasures and say he hasn't learned to "dodge arcs", that's like saying Why take Dash, you can't avoid rocks or something?

The call for lowering Dash down to Leebo was a great call because of 2 things. The only PS7 pilot that see's competitive play is Old Teroch and you ain't going to win that Initiative Bid. So just drop it down to Leebo. You win the RacLo matchup, but more importantly when your opponent gets their eventual torp shots on you or Fenn Rau gets his Range 1, you drop that TL and now have 2 Focus and LW to back you up.

I like the Krayts and haven't disagreed with them much but they sound like the people who first looked at Dengaroo and said, that's *** they only got 2 Jumpmasters and even have Countermeasures in the list. That's crap. Without looking at the full picture.

The US players are so behind on x-wing compared to europeans that it would take 5 byes to every Carolina Krayts player to put one in the top16 if they played in the european championship.

I don't see a US player win worlds once more, unless Trump bans all foreign travels into USA.

:D

5 minutes ago, pflrocha said:

The US players are so behind on x-wing compared to europeans that it would take 5 byes to every Carolina Krayts player to put one in the top16 if they played in the european championship.

I don't see a US player win worlds once more, unless Trump bans all foreign travels into USA.

Or if he bans Scum

?

13 minutes ago, pflrocha said:

The US players are so behind on x-wing compared to europeans that it would take 5 byes to every Carolina Krayts player to put one in the top16 if they played in the european championship.

I don't see a US player win worlds once more, unless Trump bans all foreign travels into USA.

Build the wall! Make XWing Great Again!

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

Or if he bans Scum

?

There's no way he'd ban himself.

2 hours ago, Brunas said:

A lot of these lists are unoptimized or, quite honestly, strictly worse than other variations.

Unoptimized for what? Counter Measures Leebo is the very definition of an optimized list for the meta. I would really like to hear more examples.

The European meta actually surprised me (very few Dengar Trevura there, I expected swarms of them), but I'm really curious to hear why you think the level was low.

2 hours ago, Brunas said:

I'll stand by what we said, or at least what I remember of it, though apparently I was lied to and the correct number of rounds WERE played.

A lot of these lists are unoptimized or, quite honestly, strictly worse than other variations. I don't know if the unavoidables at the event contributed, or what happened, but when I watched the stream (including the cut) the lists and level of play were low.

Granted, usually by round 12 of a tournament the level of play isn't pretty.

This is the biggest load of bollocks I've ever read.

38 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

There's no way he'd ban himself.

He wouldn't be banning himself, he'd be banning all the other Scum so he'd be the Hutt.

Wow, that is quite an eye opener.. lots of Jumpmasters but really pleased to see a QD, Vess+pure sabbac list there! Very brave of them.

40 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Unoptimized for what? Counter Measures Leebo is the very definition of an optimized list for the meta. I would really like to hear more examples.

The European meta actually surprised me (very few Dengar Trevura there, I expected swarms of them), but I'm really curious to hear why you think the level was low.

30 minutes ago, Goseki1 said:

This is the biggest load of bollocks I've ever read.

I'm very much on a phone, so I'll give you a condensed answer. Let me know if I'm not clear and I'll try to get back to it later tonight.

I'm hearing that there weren't very many jumpmasters, yet the winning list is a modified Miranda/Dash with far worse matchups against things that aren't jumpmasters. Additionally, what's the benefit of countermeasures if there was little scum alpha?

Basically, I'm hearing that this list is a great tech against a meta that people are also claiming wasn't there. Which one was it? Does this do well against munitions, or were they not there?

Are you saying that counter measureas is only good against Dengar Trevura?

I'd say it's very helpful against contracted scouts, which were the most common ships of the top tables. And it's not like it's useless in other matchup

Sure, Leebo didn't had infinite focus like Dengar, but he still defend with 2 and rerolls.

13 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm hearing that there weren't very many jumpmasters, yet the winning list is a modified Miranda/Dash with far worse matchups against things that aren't jumpmasters. Additionally, what's the benefit of countermeasures if there was little scum alpha?

Basically, I'm hearing that this list is a great tech against a meta that people are also claiming wasn't there. Which one was it? Does this do well against munitions, or were they not there?

Well let me explain that, very condensed:

Even if you don't get shot at with missiles, ditching a target lock and raising your agility by 1 in the round you will probably receive the most fire generally does keep you alive longer. This is not rocket science....

27 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm hearing that there weren't very many jumpmasters, yet the winning list is a modified Miranda / Dash with far worse matchups against things that aren't jumpmasters. Additionally, what's the benefit of countermeasures if there was little scum alpha?

Basically, I'm hearing that this list is a great tech against a meta that people are also claiming wasn't there. Which one was it? Does this do well against munitions, or were they not there?

I think there are interesting questions in there. Maybe not in the sentences with question marks though.

I'm looking forward to us solving these riddles together.

7 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Are you saying that counter measureas is only good against Dengar Trevura?

I'd say it's very helpful against contracted scouts, which were the most common ships of the top tables. And it's not like it's useless in other matchup

Sure, Leebo didn't had infinite focus like Dengar, but he still defend with 2 and rerolls.

Right, countermeasures is to help against the munitions out there, regardless of PS. But dash pilot ability is going to allow you to play on such a way that you'll eat less torps per game than the single torp dodge of countermeasures.

7 minutes ago, Sarcon said:

Well let me explain that, very condensed:

Even if you don't get shot at with missiles, ditching a target lock and raising your agility by 1 in the round you will probably receive the most fire generally does keep you alive longer. This is not rocket science....

Right, but Dash is out of arc significantly more often than leebo, and when you're out of arc you always roll evades. If countermeasures prevents two damage (either by denying a torp or giving you two evades you wouldn't have rolled otherwise) you're about even with Dash's pilot ability letting you dodge an arc you wouldn't otherwise once.

The other tech you have an advantage against is kylo, and unless there's a significant portion of the meta out there that's kylo, I don't see it mastering much. Even against kylo, if I'm playing against leebo I'm probably happy because it's much easier to keep a decimator either bumped or range 1 of him.

Dash's ability is an intangible so it's hard to directly measure the effect, but I didn't expect I would be trying to convince people that dash is worth the 3 more points than leebo almost always today.

Just now, Brunas said:

Right, countermeasures is to help against the munitions out there, regardless of PS. But dash pilot ability is going to allow you to play on such a way that you'll eat less torps per game than the single torp dodge of countermeasures.

Right, but Dash is out of arc significantly more often than leebo, and when you're out of arc you always roll evades. If countermeasures prevents two damage (either by denying a torp or giving you two evades you wouldn't have rolled otherwise) you're about even with Dash's pilot ability letting you dodge an arc you wouldn't otherwise once.

The other tech you have an advantage against is kylo, and unless there's a significant portion of the meta out there that's kylo, I don't see it mastering much. Even against kylo, if I'm playing against leebo I'm probably happy because it's much easier to keep a decimator either bumped or range 1 of him.

Dash's ability is an intangible so it's hard to directly measure the effect, but I didn't expect I would be trying to convince people that dash is worth the 3 more points than leebo almost always today.

So which ships are in the meta that have repositioning skills and have a lower PS than Dash but a higher PS than Leebo, to support your arc dodge claim?