I have a question on the Rune Golem. The army card give him Brutal increasing his threat based on the amount of stable energy in the magic pool. The upgrade card Front Line Rune Golem gives him Brutal when attacking. Does that mean a Golem with that upgrade gets Brutal twice when attacking?
If so, then ouch. If not, what's the use of that card?
Thanks in advance!
Shawn
That card is given to a unit of infantry to let them take a rune golem. The rune golem itself can't take it
Ah, okay, so the Rune Golem is added to the unit, and the unit itself basically gains the Rune Golems normal ability. Got it.
Thanks for the quick response.
12 hours ago, Chaoswarlord said:Ah, okay, so the Rune Golem is added to the unit, and the unit itself basically gains the Rune Golems normal ability. Got it.
Thanks for the quick response.
Any time. Look up heavy upgrades in learn to play for some more info. Also keep in mind the rune golem rolls the spearman dice and movement dial as the upgrade
Remember that the golem isn't simply added to the unit but, in fact, replace one full tray of spearmen. Using the upgrade on a unit of spearmen that has 4 trays, leaves you with 3 trays of spearmen and 1 rune golem tray.
" To add a heavy figure to a unit, a player removes one of the unit’s trays, and all of the figures on it, and replaces it with a siege tray that has the appropriate figure slotted into it."
Well, the only way (currently) to even allow the upgrade is to bring a 3x3 of spearmen, which is ironically just enough spearmen with 2 cores to field 8 trays + 1 golem tray. Coincidence? Nah..
So I found the specific rule: 42.1 states that for each hit you spend, you deal damage equal to the threat to the defending unit. So what threat really modifies is how much damage you may assign for each hit rolled, it does not directly multiply the number of wounds. So when a hit result is cancelled, it effectively reduces the damage that would be dealt by the threat value rather than just eliminate the damage directly.
Also, 3x3 unit of Spearmen + FLRG costs 66 pts. It rolls a red and a blue dice, and has at threat of 3+Green, with 2 rerolls.
But, a 3x2 unit (in an army with Ardus) of Reanimates + SCL costs 41 pts. It rolls 2x red dice, and has a threat of 3, with 1 reroll.
So for the price a little less than of two 3x3 units of Brutal Spearmen you can have 3 3x2 units of Spitting Reanimates. Thats 18 trays vs 18 trays, with a little more multitasking by sacrificing their reroll.
Edited by drkpnthrwait, what? i'll have to dig into that myself after work as i dont have the rules with me at work, but if thats true that makes removing trays insanely difficult.
3 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:wait, what? i'll have to dig into that myself after work as i dont have the rules with me at work, but if thats true that makes removing trays insanely difficult.
No it doesn't. It's just a more technical wording.
Dealing damage equal to threat for each damage spent is no different than dealing one damage per result multiplied by threat.
Knowing the precise wording of it may matter for game effects in the future, but the result is identical.
On 4/18/2017 at 9:59 AM, drkpnthr said:So I found the specific rule: 42.1 states that for each hit you spend, you deal damage equal to the threat to the defending unit. So what threat really modifies is how much damage you may assign for each hit rolled, it does not directly multiply the number of wounds. So when a hit result is cancelled, it effectively reduces the damage that would be dealt by the threat value rather than just eliminate the damage directly.
Also, 3x3 unit of Spearmen + FLRG costs 66 pts. It rolls a red and a blue dice, and has at threat of 3+Green, with 2 rerolls.
But, a 3x2 unit (in an army with Ardus) of Reanimates + SCL costs 41 pts. It rolls 2x red dice, and has a threat of 3, with 1 reroll.
So for the price a little less than of two 3x3 units of Brutal Spearmen you can have 3 3x2 units of Spitting Reanimates. Thats 18 trays vs 18 trays, with a little more multitasking by sacrificing their reroll.
Except the threat of the spearmen is 4-5 and have a lot more survivability
On 4/18/2017 at 4:59 PM, drkpnthr said:So I found the specific rule: 42.1 states that for each hit you spend, you deal damage equal to the threat to the defending unit. So what threat really modifies is how much damage you may assign for each hit rolled, it does not directly multiply the number of wounds. So when a hit result is cancelled, it effectively reduces the damage that would be dealt by the threat value rather than just eliminate the damage directly.
Also, 3x3 unit of Spearmen + FLRG costs 66 pts. It rolls a red and a blue dice, and has at threat of 3+Green, with 2 rerolls.
But, a 3x2 unit (in an army with Ardus) of Reanimates + SCL costs 41 pts. It rolls 2x red dice, and has a threat of 3, with 1 reroll.
So for the price a little less than of two 3x3 units of Brutal Spearmen you can have 3 3x2 units of Spitting Reanimates. Thats 18 trays vs 18 trays, with a little more multitasking by sacrificing their reroll.
Brutal Spearmen...I like that name! Can see that becoming the standard nickname for spearmen/golem units
1 hour ago, Klaxas said:Except the threat of the spearmen is 4-5 and have a lot more survivability
To explain @Klaxas ' point (and a good one!): One of the tokens always shows a Stable rune, and there is 50% chance of the other Stable rune showing, so you always will have 1-2 Stable runes to gain +1 or +2 Threat with FLRG.
<RUNEMATH ALERT!>
If both Brutal Spearmen formations are engaged, you should be getting 0-3x4-5 damage from each (0/3/6/9 or 0/4/8/12) times two for a maximum of 18 or 24 damage per round (and they get two rerolls each, so they are more likely to be towards the higher end of their damage track).
If all three Spitting Reanimates are engaged, you should be getting 0-4x3 damage from each (0/3/6/9/12) times three for a maximum of 36 damage per round (they only get one reroll, so are less likely to be higher on the damage track).
I'm going to have to sit down and calculate the actual average values, we can't really tell anything by just looking at the maximum values. Like I showed here though, the maximum damage of the Brutal Spearmen is comparable with the Spitting Reanimates, but Brutal Spearmen do have an advantage in having another reroll.
EDIT: Oh! AND of course we can hardly to expect all the units to be engaged all the round, now can we? Not to mention the relative differences in initiative and command dials that also have an effect. Raw damage output should not be our only factor!
Edited by drkpnthrOkay, so here is what I worked out! WARNING RUNEMATH AHEAD!
Reroll calculations are assuming we do not reroll any Hit result for a Hitx2 or Hit-Surge.
Red Dice: (2/8 Hit, 1/8 Hit-Surge, 1/8 Hit-Morale, 1/8 Hit x2)
Base Roll: 0.75 hits per die
1 Reroll: 1.03 hits per die
2 Rerolls: 1.14 hits per die
Blue Dice: (2/8 Hit, 1/8 Hit-Surge, 1/8 Hit-Morale)
Base Roll: 0.5 hits per die
1 Reroll: 0.75 hits per die
2 Rerolls: 0.87 hits per die
The following numbers assume that no upgrades are used beyond FLRG threat bonus, and that neither side is spending Banes or Boons (likely in the case of the Spitting Reanimates).
The Brutal Spearmen should generate an average damage of 2.01 hits per attack, and when spent should generate an average of 8 damage (50% of the time) or 10 damage (50% of the time) to assign to an engaged enemy. If both units were engaged, this is an average of 16 or 20 damage per round total (appx 18 dmg).
The Spitting Reanimates should generate an average of 2.06 damage per round, and when spent should generate an average of 6 damage to assign to an engaged enemy. If all three units were engaged, this is an average of 18 damage per round total.
When the math is worked out like this, both units seem fairly equal under the heartless glare of the runemath. But of course, many factors were simplified or outright ignored to bring us this data.
Engagement: The Spitting Reanimates have an advantage here of being able to get into engagement from sheer numbers, but the Brutal Spearmen have a better maneuver dial. I think a lot of this will depend on how good a player is at getting engaged when and where they choose.
Runes: Brutal Spearmen could include a Greyhaven Channeler (when Daqan Infantry Command Expansion releases Q2) for a few more points, which greatly tips the scales in their favor. This raises their average damage to 8 damage (25% of the time) or 10 damage (75% of the time) for an an approximate average of 9.5 damage each (19 damage total). This may seem only a little, but raising your average by a point isn’t bad in my opinion!
Banes: The whole point of the Carrion Lancer in the Reanimates is to shield your pretty pets while giving the big sloggy unit something to do while it trudges across the field. If you add the Marching Drummer upgrade, you can keep the rain of loogies falling on your foes, stocking them up to spend to deny them their dice. A Brutal Speamen with two Banes (and no Inspiration to ditch them) drops to an average 0 damage!
Inspiration: Being able to add a few Inspiration to ready a Shield Wall upgrade after engagement might make a big difference to the survivability of the Brutal Spearmen, especially if they stack +defense instead of +damage each round, relying on their greater threat to slowly pummel their way to victory. Spitting Reanimates can’t take this upgrade.
Regeneration: Being able to regain 0-2 figures a round is not bad, and spreading out in three squads increases this ability’s affect. However, Brutal Spearmen are going to be removing whole trays at a time!
Edit: Fixed my screwup with Blight, thought it removed the opportunity to reroll, not removed the entire dice!
Edited by drkpnthr