So, I've been sitting on my copy of WH3ed since Christmas. I've read the rules thoroughly, and I just don't feel compelled to play it. I like the basic mechanic of the system: choosing between standard dice, conservative dice and wreckless dice, but nothing else works for me.

I really don't have the time or the inclination to learn these rules inside and out, and then to teach them to my players, who will -never- buy the books. I don't like the tracking systems, the group dynamics, the fatigue counters... these are all just inconveniences for me, as a Game Master, since I want to keep everything as simple and straight-forward as possible. I find that when you aren't bogged down by all that meta-game stuff, it gives everyone a more emersive experience.

I'm wandering it the game can work with a more simplified rules system? Does the game break down without the fatigue rules etc.

I hope FFG will still produce WH2ed, because I think it's more my speed.

I have only been a player in this edition of WHFRP so far, but I don't really agree with you. The rules system might seem complicated with all the counters and stuff but in practice it can be played fast and immersively (which is also the impression I get from our GM). I find it quicker and easier to use these rules than the old 2ed rules to be honest. And a lot more fun. I think you should try the game out, the demo adventure is quite short and easy to use to learn the rules. What really makes it fast is that the GM and players almost never have to check things in rulebook/tables during combat, everything is on the cards.

I'm not 100% certain I understand what you don't like about the tracking systems? Is it that you don't like to have the concept of, e.g, fatigue at all in your game or is it just that you think using counters is no good? Fatigue and stress are only used for the players (and they should be able to handle that by themselves without GM help), NPC only use wounds. I guess you could do away with fatigue/stress and only use wounds also for players, but that would probably affect a number of action cards in ways that is har to predict (some becoming a lot better and some a lot worse). Many of the other tracking systems are just GM aids, e.g. you don't have to use a initiative track, you can write it down instead.

I think the party sheet is pretty much optional, the GM could in principle award fortune points to individual players rather than the party sheet. What would be lost is the party tension meter (but that's not a big loss, I'm not a huge fan of that myself) and the opportunity to share talents.

I am another one of those 'long time players' of Warhammer and must admit also that I had the distinct impression that it was going to be Descent like and just NOT my thing.

Reading through the rules does overwhelm with a lot of bits of information - but having run the demo now twice and started a campaign - as well as converting some 2e stuff for use in my game - I have to say the system ends UP being a lot simpler. It isn't that there is no depth, or that the parts take away from anything in the end - after a 20-30 minute play NO one will even notice all the mechanics and system structure that is laying on the table. It really has encouraged role playing and working together in a wonderful way that my group is having a great time with.

That being said - I do make one change in regard to running the game - for my NPC's - I use a helpful play aid to track all their info and leave the bits to improve the game flow for the players. I still use the action cards, etc for my bad guys - but to track their dice, wounds, etc I just use the paper for me.

One final thing, and truly I'm not trying to sway you - you feel about the system like you feel - fatigue is HUGELY important - I've downed players through that more often than the are felled from wounds.

In closing - after a brief bit of play - the bits and everything really do go away - I would suggest trying it as is before altering it to suite your style. In regards to the books - the players won't really need them - once the mechanics are grasped all they need is their characters and the cards they have. =)

I agree very much with the above posters.

I have never played first or second edition but i have played (and are still playing) Dark Heresy which is very similar to 2nd edition fantasy ruleswise. The WFRPG 3rd rules don't get much simpler than they are. And thats what I love about them. I GM a group and none of my players have opnened the books for anything other than the character creation table and they are doing fine. I taught them the rules in one evening where we made the characters and played a small intro adventure to try out the mechanics of combat.

About fatigue and stress I'll say the system doesn't work without and you are missing a huge part if you leave it out. as I posted in another threat, fatigue is a whole new way of damaging and threatening your characters without leaving them permanently mangled for the rest of the campaign. I use it alot.

And stress is a good way of telling the players what it does to their characters when they are under a lot of pressure, fighting fearsome undead, going for days without much sleep, or travelling through ominous forests where they feel constantly watched and ambushes can be sprung any minute. Those things can lead to insanity

Cheers

Here's how you can quickly simplify a lot of stuff:

1. Download and use a character sheet (fillable most appropriately) from the Hammerzeit site that has the NUMBERS on it for stress, fatigue, fortune points, wounds and power. Ditch the condition cards and use a SHEET of condition effects. This eliminates a deck of cards that should have been a reference sheet anyways.

AND/OR

3. Eliminate stress tracking and stance shifts. Characters are always in their most effective stance.

4. Eliminate fatigue and extra maneuvers. All characters get two maneuvers per turn.

5. Eliminate the Party card.

6. Eliminate Recharge tokens for Talents, Action cards and Condition Cards. Talents may be used once per encounter. Action cards may be used once per encounter unless they have a recharge of 0-3, then they may be used every other round.

7. Eliminate critical wounds and wounds. Just track with numbers. This eliminates an entire deck of cards.

8. Forget channeling MATH rules for wizards and priests. The spell just goes off. Recharge as listed in #6 above. Then roll the dice. Keep the miscast, because wizards deserve them.

9. Eliminate Fortune points. Not necessary because there's no recharge.

10. All ranges cost one maneuver to move through. Close range equals engaged. Participants may enter and leave combat at their leisure. Problem solved.

11. Ditch insanity, because you no longer have 'stress' trackers.

12. Eliminate the Rally Phase (GM).

13. Simplify that after combat, everyone heals their toughness in wounds as long as there is someone in the party with First aid. Forget the roll, it's a nuisance anyways.

Now you're left with the following:

1. The Dice mechanic

2. Action and talent cards that are as simple as D&D (but without the math)

3. You ditched: Wound deck, Condition deck, stress, fatigue, party card, fortune points, insanity deck, chanelling/currying

4. Miscast deck

5. Essentially Warhammer Fantasy 2nd Edition, but with different dice and a couple more character abilities

You could probably just start with that and get into the feel of the world rather than worrying about rules. Then you could add them in later if you felt like it.

My house rules are moving towards eliminating some of the nit-picky stuff, but nothing to the extent that you probably mean (above)..but afterall, that's what house rules are for

jh