Just now, Elavion said:

Seeing as 44 ships check out and 13 don't (and guess what, it's the troublemakers) I'd say they must be using as their starting point at least.

I genuinely don't think they're trying to balance ships to cost.

How does Miranda Doni cost 1 more than Esege?

3 minutes ago, SOTL said:

I genuinely don't think they're trying to balance ships to cost.

How does Miranda Doni cost 1 more than Esege?

Did you read the OP? He's not asserting anything about the costs of high-than-minimum PS pilots, just the minimum PS pilot for each ship, versus the Academy TIE.

The valuation of elite pilots and their abilities isn't commented on at all, except indirectly (pilots of underpriced ships are also likely to be underpriced, pilots of overpriced ships are also likely to be overpriced)..

6 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Did you read the OP? He's not asserting anything about the costs of high-than-minimum PS pilots, just the minimum PS pilot for each ship, versus the Academy TIE.

The valuation of elite pilots and their abilities isn't commented on at all, except indirectly (pilots of underpriced ships are also likely to be underpriced, pilots of overpriced ships are also likely to be overpriced)..

And I CERTAINLY don't think they've any intention of pricing generics for playability. I mean look how many generics are getting played these days. They're being priced for obsolecence.

OK.

3 minutes ago, SOTL said:

And I CERTAINLY don't think they've any intention of pricing generics for playability. I mean look how many generics are getting played these days. They're being priced for obsolecence.

It's not really about the generics, it's about the chassis. If you go through it, you'll see that a majority of ships that are or were considered under- or overpowered had a chassis that is/was too strong/weak. I would say for the problematic pilots it is probably often a combination of a slightly under/overpriced chassis and a slightly under/overpriced ability combined to create something noticeably under/overpriced.

P.S. K-Wing chassis is underpriced. K-Wing is one of the best rebel ships and all 4 pilots see play (not evenly distributed, but they all had their showings).

Fine, you all have fun.

On 6/22/2017 at 6:35 AM, Elavion said:

Do you plan to include better pilots in the formula? I know it'd multiply your work by around 5 to do them all by hand, but if you figured it out, I could probably write a program to automatically analyze all pilots in the game.

No, I don't. MajorJuggler has a good analysis on it already, though. I would suggest checking his threads out about it.

Now that we have the dial for the TIE-Aggressor, as predicted it has a pretty decent dial. Funny how I was comparing how its dial needed to be better than a TIE-Bomber's, and then its dial is EXACTLY like the Bomber except its hard 2 turns are now white instead. It's not amazing, but it still has a niche as a small, nimble turret platform with high agility. Imperials don't have secondary turret options, so this has that going for it, too.

I had a feeling its dial wouldn't be as good as I hoped, although it's not bad. It's certainly a great dial for a small base turret user. It's a decent ship overall, but I still feel it could have been a hair better. Still, when used as a turret platform, time will tell how effective its barrel roll and high agility are compared to a Y-Wing's innate tankiness and Salvaged Astromech slot.

Thought I'd do a quick update about the new "wave 12" ships. I'm curious to see how accurate I can predict.

[2] Phantom II : 100% offense, 111% defense = 12.67 {?}
Assuming a relatively average dial, I am expecting the PS1 pilot to cost 13 points since they've been very aggressive about their costing, lately. Otherwise I'd normally say it would cost 14 points. Assuming 13, getting Coordinate, Astromech, Crew, and pilot ability for a third of a point.

[1] Kimogila Fighter : 200% offense, 133% defense = 21 {?}
B-Wing stats. I'm expecting the PS3 pilot to cost 22-23 points. PS3 by itself is usually worth extra 1pt, and normally I'd believe all the utility on the ship would warrant an additional extra point. However, due to how aggressive costs have been, lately, I'm going to say it'll be 22.

[2] Alpha-Class Star Wing : 100% off, 155% def = 15.33 {?}
I really believe this ship is straight up going to defy the formula since its so unique. Since we already have a TIE-Bomber costing 16 points for 6 hull, I don't believe this will cost anything less than 17 points. Like most 2-ATK secondary turret users, I expect its cost will be balanced with upgrades in mind. If we pretend a powerful ordnance followed by a turn of no attacking equates to roughly 3 attack dice on average (I'm just guessing here), we could expect the lowest cost pilot plus ordnance to cost around 22-23 points. Homing Missiles at 5 points seems to work out just perfectly. So yeah, 17-18 points, but most likely 17.

4 hours ago, f0rbiddenc00kie said:

So yeah, 17-18 points, but most likely 17.

I desperately, desperately hope you're right. But with the PS7 aces at TWENTY-SIX, I sorely and sadly doubt it

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I desperately, desperately hope you're right. But with the PS7 aces at TWENTY-SIX, I sorely and sadly doubt it

SLAM + reload seems quite powerful for ordnance runs. That should explain the cost.

3 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

SLAM + reload seems quite powerful for ordnance runs. That should explain the cost.

You can already fit it out with 2 missiles and in the current meta you'll struggle to fire both of them.

I suspect he'll be at his best with a Flechette cannon and whatever the new Cannon is that lets you reroll. BUt even generously assuming that's 0 points, he's still then 30+ points with VI, Flechette, ASLAM. 32 I think. For 3ish-3-4-3, which is a very good price for the statline - but in a world of turrets how well will even a PS9 do with that statline?

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 11:52 PM, f0rbiddenc00kie said:

Thought I'd do a quick update about the new "wave 12" ships. I'm curious to see how accurate I can predict.

[2] Phantom II : 100% offense, 111% defense = 12.67 {?}
Assuming a relatively average dial, I am expecting the PS1 pilot to cost 13 points since they've been very aggressive about their costing, lately. Otherwise I'd normally say it would cost 14 points. Assuming 13, getting Coordinate, Astromech, Crew, and pilot ability for a third of a point.

[1] Kimogila Fighter : 200% offense, 133% defense = 21 {?}
B-Wing stats. I'm expecting the PS3 pilot to cost 22-23 points. PS3 by itself is usually worth extra 1pt, and normally I'd believe all the utility on the ship would warrant an additional extra point. However, due to how aggressive costs have been, lately, I'm going to say it'll be 22.

[2] Alpha-Class Star Wing : 100% off, 155% def = 15.33 {?}
I really believe this ship is straight up going to defy the formula since its so unique. Since we already have a TIE-Bomber costing 16 points for 6 hull, I don't believe this will cost anything less than 17 points. Like most 2-ATK secondary turret users, I expect its cost will be balanced with upgrades in mind. If we pretend a powerful ordnance followed by a turn of no attacking equates to roughly 3 attack dice on average (I'm just guessing here), we could expect the lowest cost pilot plus ordnance to cost around 22-23 points. Homing Missiles at 5 points seems to work out just perfectly. So yeah, 17-18 points, but most likely 17.

Any chance you can take what we know now and add to the mine post? And refine for the veksai and starviper titles?

I love ur original post, I come back to it all the time.

On 11/13/2017 at 9:20 AM, Gibbilo said:

Any chance you can take what we know now and add to the mine post? And refine for the veksai and starviper titles?

I love ur original post, I come back to it all the time.

Yeah, I've been away for a bit. I'll update it hopefully soon. In the meantime, here's some recent wave ships as well as my prediction for the TIE Reaper. I also need to go back and recalculate the Phantom II because I initially missed that it had an auxiliary arc.

WAVE 13

[3] TIE Silencer : 200% offense, 200% defense = 27 {26} <E=108%>
FORMULA vs PERCEPTION: Huh... this is an oddity. Sienar-Jaemus Analyst seems great for the cost, yet it isn't used much. Anomaly?
EXPLANATION: It's like it's already receiving a glass cannon bonus, being 1 point cheaper and having +3 pilot skill. Yet, despite all this it still doesn't see a lot of play. Personally, I'd say it's a combination of the TIE Defender is so much more durable and easier to use for 1 point more while also having a lot of negative attention for being a small-based ship in a large-based box and a big price tag. It's like... why would I want to buy this? Honestly, though, the Sienar-Jaemus Analyst seems like it would be pretty good.

[1] B/SF-17 Bomber : [ FAT-T(C) ] 200% offense, 200% defense = 27 (~23.63 ) {25} <E=108%>
FORMULA vs PERCEPTION: Stats are just decent for the cost. Nothing amazing. Use for the abilities and upgrades.
EXPLANATION: If you're comparing generics then it has the exact same offense and defense percent rating as a Jumpmaster. This seems good until you realize that the Contracted Scouts boast an extra +2 pilot skill, a better dial including the coveted white Segnor Loop, and an EPT over the B/SF-17 Bomber. Although to be fair... Contracted Scouts are still unreasonably beastly even with the nerfs. Bombers aren't getting a whole lot for being 1-2 points under their stat cost, especially considering that they lack a K-turn. Bottom line, running Crimson Squadron Pilots naked is kinda meh, so you're still better off running at least a few upgrades to highlight their strengths.

WAVE 14

[1] TIE Reaper : 200% offense, 133% defense = 21 {21-22?}
B-Wing stats. I expect the PS1 generic to be 21 points. However, due to the existence of Lightweight Frame, we need to assume that the final pricing will be balanced with it in mind. With LWF it will have U-Wing stats with Pivot Wing up for a stat line worth 25 points for only 23 points. As a result, I am expecting it to have a pretty garbage dial with no K-turn in order to make up for being ~2pts undercosted for its stats with LWF. For reference, look at the Auzituck Gunship. If that is not the case and its dial is better than anticipated then I expect the PS1 equivalent to be worth 23 points. This is very unlikely though because looking at Major Vermeil's price at 26 for PS6, gaining an EPT with +5 pilot skill and an ability for 3 points seems a bit much. If anything, expect the PS1 equivalent to be 22 points if FFG is being conservative about Jam pricing. However, with how aggressive pricing has been lately, I don't believe it'll cost anything extra.

I really, really hope you're wrong about the Reaper. The Auzitcuk ended up with a solid dial (albeit without a K Turn) and an expanded arc to make up for it. ANd the U Wing is 23 with Pivot Wing, so...

The Reaper doesn't have the expanded arc and we already know it's got a questionable dial thanks to the red 2 turn (albeit one which might get better, given that Advanced Ailerons looks like it messes with the dial).

I'm hoping that they've priced it aggressively at, say, 20 or even 19 points, and then made Advanced Ailerons cost points like LWF does.

I'd be super disappointed at 21 points, lambda money for a thing with a lambda dial and lambda statline is a bad bad deal.

SJA I suspect is priced well, but in a world of higher PS pilots with missiles and bombs, it just can't compete without the ability to stack focus and evade on defence. The /x7 is WAY more than a point better.