Been a while since I've been to this forum! I played my first AGOT game yesterday in almost 1 1/2 years. I played a four-person Melee with deathjester26, johnnymcguy and Ram. DJ played Martell. Johnny played Stark. Ram played Targ and I played Lannnister shadows. We also used the new multiplayer titles from the Greyjoy expansion. Man how I miss this game! I had a blast playing and had lots of card thoughts and combos running through my head. I did miss this game but miss my gaming community of friends even more. There have been so many great friends that I have met traveling all over the U.S. playing this game. I'm curious about three things...

1) Who knows me that is still playing this game out there?

2) Should I really make an attempt to come back and play this game? (Sell me on your opinion)

3) Don't you miss that really cool Plot from A Song of Night?

mathlete (John)

mathlete said:

Vaguely....

mathlete said:

Depends on what you want out of it. If you want a fun, constructible game with a lot of possibilities and strategies that are changing, the game is as great as it ever was - with a considerably lower financial outlay! If you want a great gaming experience with your local meta community, the opportunity to try to outwit each other and push each other to more creative deck solutions, the game is as great as ever. If you just have fun immersing yourself in the world of Westeros and watching the characters "dance" on the cards, the game is as great as ever. You should attempt to come back, especially if you have people to play with locally.

But if you want a national or international scene for competitive play, you will no longer find that here. If you want an active, involved board community that has lengthy, deep, insightful strategy conversations (and arguments), you will no longer find that here (be honest here, guys...). If you are looking to reconnect with a bunch of people from the 2007 Gencon Championships or ChiCON III, you will no longer find that here.

Sorry to be kind of blunt about that, John, but you know me. I wouldn't try to "snow" you on such things. The game has become primarily driven at the local level. If you can get what you want out of the game predominantly at the local level, by all means, jump right in; the water is fine. If you really need a larger, national community (including the boards - unless you want to accept the challenge to help revitalize the conversation here!), you will probably not be satisfied with the LCG.

mathlete said:

3) Don't you miss that really cool Plot from A Song of Night?

~ Only the pretty picture.

Good to "see" you man! We should catch up offline!

ktom said:

1) which one of you? i never meet you before you lost a whole person, but the skinny you i know!

2) YES! If you liked the game before there is nothing really different (especially if you played in westeros edition)

ktom said:

I do not think this is a reflection on the game and more of a reflection on how the game is advertised now/approached. there is a lot of people on BGG who don't come here. There is also OTCGN which is makingthe community smaller and travel less of an issue (i'll be playing someone from Spain in our tournament later this week). And then there is the local metas that work hard at meeting up with each toehr but have to balance 'board game night' with meeting other metas.

I think there has been some strategy talk on here, i just think that since cards trickle in (as opposed to being dumped on us in 200+ lots) the strategy talk is more flare-ish (brief and bright) as most of the conversations happen around CP releases and not later as there is not a "hey! look what card i just found in these 200 and how it orks with x card of other 500!!).

I have had plenty of argu-coughconversations about cards, deck types, viable strategies (i still don;t like 2 claim decks...) etc.

3) no, but i'm biased as it smoked my GJ deck in the finals of a tournament....ui could see an argument for it coming back...maybe....

To address number one: I suppose I do know you John, though I hate to admit it! Psyche! (I know, but I'm trying to bring it back...) Great to read a few words from the great Mathlete. Miss you buddy. I just played in a tournament with Deathjester over the weekend, and he has it rough down there with only a few active players, so it made me happy he got to play with you (and you him!).

As you may or may not know, we (Chaos and I) stuck out the tough times up here in Northern California, even when it was just us for a month or so. The game bounced back though, and much faster than I thought it would. Our last tournament had 8 participants, and that was with regulars not able to make it. If I can be so bold, I would even say that our meta is now more popular than it ever was before the format change (knock on wood). The gameplay is better than ever, and with the further changes coming to the chapter packs, my only remaining gripe is the almost sacriligeous ommission of First Snow. But it can be said that we just got kind of a Light version of First Snow.

There's never been a better time to play John, and knowing what little there is to know of such an enigma as yourself, I think it's actually more suited to your current lifestyle. I'm sure you could tell from your recent foray into westeros: the people that play this game are just plain dope...dope as hell.

If for no other reason, you must come to play this summer for CaliCon IV. Your title must be avenged!

Syd

Lars said:

But on the boards, they tend to be 11 posts long and/or between 3-4 people, maximum. They really pale in comparison to the weeks long, 30+ people discussions of old. There is little denying that the board community is nowhere near as vocal or prolific as it was pre-LCG.

well only one way to fix that, let's start talking more.

1) duh...

2) I agree with a lot of what ktom said. The game is in a good place right now. The one thing lacking is any real connection between the local metas. Sometimes I wonder if things are really as isolated as they seem. If there was a tourney scene (regionals and nationals etc.), it's reached the point that I think people would travel a little now. I'd travel to play now. I couldn't say the same last year. There definitely isn't a competitive scene now, but it's looking more and more each day to me like one could actually exist.

As far as board activity, I think Lar's comments about the effect of chapter packs on discussions about tactics holds some water. Plus it's hard to discuss opinions on cards when most people feel they will never be able to prove their point in competition outside of their local meta. I personally don't have many chances to play, so it's hard to feel like anything I say will be of use to anyone. Especially since I'm the kind of player that needs to be playing to understand the card pool.

3) I've told you this, but I guess I'll throw it up on the boards for discussion. In Cali we've seen a couple of dominant Lanni Shadows decks using some weenies and Tunnels of the Red Keep. It may just be a problem out here due to the lack of any major GJ players that would have enough Loc hate to get rid of 3 Tunnels. Venomous Blade has helped a little too, but I'd love to see First Snow. That, and Bloodlust.

And to think, you feel this way after a melee. Can you imagine how much more fun you would have had if we had played joust?

1. Yup, I'm still here. Greg's around too though he's not been posting too much. Actually, I've slowed down, come to think of it.

2. I feel the game is in a potentially great place. With the release of the Martell expansion, everything in the LCG finally has a much more finished feel. Seasons have been a fun addition to the game, and Shadows is a wonderful mechanic with quite a few nuances. We're still building towards more inventive decktypes, but there's been some interesting thought's lately. Just check with Herr Dobbler on some of his more recent thoughts.

While ktom is technically accurate, I feel the tone that I read (admittedly, it may be one that I'm supplying without it actually being present) is not entirely applicable. Again I say that the game is in a potentially great place. We had 8 players turn out for last week's tournament which is more than we've had at a weekly event in a long time. Regularly we probably have 4 to 5 players, with the actual who's who rotating each week as people's schedule varies. But we have people playing weekly. In the CCG days we had a tournament each month and that was about it with the actual in store, organized presence. Granted, we're lacking some of the support we're used to on the company side of organized play, but with the recent announcement of the FFG event center, I have my fingers crossed for some good things in the future. As well, I've heard rumblings from other older players. Staton has been playing via OCTGN and Ironborn contacted me on Facebook a few days ago suggesting a MO/IA/IL get together in the spring (Regional, anyone?). Especially now with the renewed interest of such a pillar of the community (and evidently a good chunk of his meta) I feel like we are in a position to have a real renaissance of not only gameplay but discussion and intermeta competition. So many of the pieces are falling more in place, that I can't help but have a positive outlook lately.

3. Umm... well.... how to break this news to you kindly, John....?

mathlete said:

Good here you are still interested. This is Jim from NoCal and occasionally SoCal.

I believe you should most definitely make an attempt to come back. Every game is defined by its community and Game of Thrones has potential to develop into an excellent game. At least here in NoCal as Syd mentioned, the tournaments and recruiting that he an Cha0s have done have been extremely successful and the turnout at both weekly events and monthly tournaments is better than I remember it ever being during the late ccg years.

As Syd and Cha0s have demonstrated, all it takes is a little local initiative to help boost the tournament scene. As I stated previously in another thread I believe if players start lobbying for stronger lcg tournament support, FFG could pave the way for a more affordable but still competitive game. They should continue to suport tournament joust play and also award maybe some bonuses for multiplayer turnout. The game seems extremely popular in Europe still with the tournaments posted getting large turnout. Perhaps if people roused interest, many would consider traveling to GenCon from various locations around the world which would make it a great tournament.

Perhaps if the various strong metas that appear represented on the forums (Europe, NY-DC, and California-Sea) start demonstrating strong local tournaments, FFG will in turn show tournament support perhaps by re-issuing cards for local tournament attendees such as plots are discard characters of printed strength 2 or lower. Id love to put that in my decks.

Whoops, just reread my post and realized that I was a little unclear. I rather meant Mathlete as a pillar of the community. Certainly not Staton. Man, that guy's as flaky as the come.... too busy with prom, I think.

*sigh* Too bad he doesn't come around the forums very often to see me diss him, however.

Great to see you post again and I hope you know: you have been missed (Your Plot has been missed more - but whatever). Seriously - it really hasn't been teh same wthout you around and teh community has been the worse for your absence. It would be great to have you actively involved in things again - you always were one of the agmes finest players and ambassadors.

The game itself is in a great place - aestehtically. All six Houses have viable builds, there aren't really any rpoblem cards in teh environemnt and the card pool is deep enough to offer some layers of strategy.Sure there are some things missing, like a little more event cancel, neutral atatchment hate, and maybe just a smidge more draw - but overall the field is fun adn exciting.

But as Ktom says - the competitive, travelling tournament scene is pretty much dead. It really wasn't worth it with the limited pool we had all fo last year - and now, even though the game has soem texture again - I honestly can't see myself spending bucks in this economy to fly to Chicago for a tournament. Maybe its just me. But a year and a half without an organized play porgram has just left me disinterested in committing to a game the way I used to. I honestly wouldn't go any furtehr than a couple of hours form NY at any point in the future - nowhere that i would stay overnight or anything.

And the OP porgram still isn;t up and running. Remember when they used to announce theme tournaments? Remember when tehy had a player ranking system? Remember promo cards (I know, I know - I still disagree)?

And the discussion on the boards isn't even a pale shadow of what it once was - its completley different and much more superficial. Dozens of posts on what's in teh chapter packs or what each faction does but only about once a week do you see a serious analysis of tactics, strategy or resources. And these threads get the same five or six posters - almost all fo whom go back to the CCG days, and then they die off.

All of which is FINE by the way. Its just different. teh game is mcuh more casual, much more local, and much, much more accessible. tehse are excellent developments and have made the NY meta miore vibrant than it has been in years - we easily hit 10-15 people for weekend event s- just wiht lcoals alone. And every time i come in to teh city we are pciking up new players. Its just DIFFERENT. So yeah - John: you'll lvoe where the game is adn if you're good with a local group you'll have as much fun in actually sitting down for an afternoon as you ever did.

1. For sure ! Hope to read more from you again.

2. I agree with Ktom here, the game is in a good condition on the terms of playability and esthetic performance, but the forum discussion is kind of non- existant.

Deathjester26 said:

Memento te hominem esse. I guess that happens to 99 % of the players, no one has the claim for omniscience here, i think it´s also part of the fun of a discussion to be wrong on an issue.

3. Umhhhh, ....., sure. But the Martell expansion brought at least threat from the north back to the game and i always liked this plot better - must be the Targaryen player in me. ;-)

mathlete said:

1) I do. And to this day I'm not sure I've ever beaten you.

2) I'll give you a reason to come back that no one else has....we have a new group of good, young (and somewhat cocky) players here in the states that have heard of you but never played against you. I know our overall World Champion from 2009 would relish the chance to lock horns with you. So I know I need some more of the old guard like yourself to come back and help me and a few others quash the new guard's claims to GoT dominance.

Plus, you are dead sexy and I need me some more Bruno. Plus, wouldn't it be cool if you came back and won the championship again after an 18 month hiatus? Plus, I'm the only person to have won the Joust Championship twice. That can't sit too well considering I can't beat you. lol

3) Yes, I do miss it now that Character-lite is viable again.

1. Yeah, I know you, never had a chance to play you.

2. Well if you do maybe you can come to Boston and get Ethan, John Chabot and Mainn to play... my deck is getting antisocial... I may have to make a Lanni deck, and I really dont want to do that.

3. To Be Honest I would have preferred that plot to Threat From the North, but I really dont want both in the environment.

Whoah! Dobbler's never beaten Mathlete? Even I did that once upon a time.

Kennon said:

Whoah! Dobbler's never beaten Mathlete? Even I did that once upon a time.

~ Yeah, well, when you think it's impossible, it tends to be.

Welcome back Mathlete. And, really, stick around. The game is still great, I'm really happy with where the card pool is, and I think I'm about to crack the nut on a few of our old meta who dropped out. Just playing the game reminds folks how good it is, and can be.

As far as the national tournament scene, I think there is potential to get this up and running, but the question is whether that is a direction FFG wants to go. Otherwise it has to be fan organized, and some of us can't even organize our collections. But I feel that the LCG, as a whole, has finally arrived, and that FFG needs to seriously look at putting it in the same OP category as ccgs, and to bring back tournaments at all levels of competition. Once, when talking about travel tournaments, ktom wisely brought up the theory that if folks had to choose between traveling to MN to attend an event at my store vs. one at the FFG site (now the new Event Center), tey would most likely pick the later. And I agree. But, man, I really want to bring this game back to what it was like two years ago. And I think the LCG pack change in about 6 months will be a huge boon to the brand.

Keep coming back. And for the seven's sake, somebody start posting card discussions again. I mean, sure, Red Vengence is the best card ever, but we can still talk about other things.

Kennon said:

Psh! I see all, ass! I'd post more, but I'm trying on a tux.

You know, Red Vengeance really is just about the best card ever. SOOOOO freaking versatile.

Good to see some familiar names out there. I'm still taking things into consideration. I need to see how this week goes...

1) Who knows me that is still playing this game out there?

While I can't say I was around when you came into your renown at AGoT, as I understand it you were one of the pillars of the old community. I think your return would be wonderful for the game both in bringing up the level of competition at Worlds and whatever national scene we cobble back together, and in helping those old players sitting, like you, on the borderline. (That, and I have some doubt that most the living representatives of the epic old guard ever will be able to take back the Worlds title; it seems LUke and Rings are allergic to melee, and Greg's dismal multi strategies don't combine well with his inability to keep even his own meta members in line in a Worlds melee game. :-P )

2) Should I really make an attempt to come back and play this game? (Sell me on your opinion)

Yes, yes, and yes. While I agree with ktom on the level of quality of forums discussion these days, the tournament scene very surely is making a return, all across the country. And if FFG doesn't step up to put together some OP system sometime relatively soon, there's been a lot of talk about organization (outside the forums) among those of us who yearn for a bigger tourney scene; I'm confident we'll be able to make something greater happen one way or another.

3) Don't you miss that really cool Plot from A Song of Night?

After the reprint of Threat, I can't say I'd like to see another reset in the environment; I hear turnover time on World Champion card designs is supposed to be pretty low these days, though, ;-), so make your way back to GenCon this summer and try to force Nate to reprint it the hard way.

As for my meta, we had 2 people at the final Melee table, and 2 people in the final four of the Joust Championship. They have nothing to apologize for, and I am quite proud of them.

As for the overall world championships, I am impressed by your accomplishments, Finite. But I honestly would much rather have the Joust Championship, particularly considering the memory of a completely annhiliation that accompanies it.

go figure mathelte posts and we have the start of a flame war... =-P

And besides, as Jeppedo and myself are actually members of the old guard (I started playing about 2 months into the game in 2002) I think I'd rather stay out of it. Jeppedo on the other hand might enjoy a flame war.

John,

If you, Ram, and Deathjester are going to have a usual thrones time, even just monthly let me know and I will try to coordinate my trips to LA to coincide with your play times.