These Forums are starting to feel like the Askellon Sector LOL

Everyday less and less posts are published and less questions answered LOL

The Askellon sector has been marked “off limits” even by the great Navigator Houses. Ravenous data-phages slowly work their way through Imperial archives, redacting the region from stellar maps.

There are those who would abandon Askellon (aka FFG DH2 Forum) and its masters to their fate, allowing them to be consumed by the ravening Warp...

Stay GAMING

Morbid

Sadly, too true! I don't know who's idea it was to end the partnership, but it was IMO a pretty bad one. And that sucks!

I'm bouncing around trying to figure out where to put stuff(though I've always been confused about that) and I'm wondering if people are even going to see things I put up.

No less trying to figure out what people want in the first place.

Don't worry about what people want. Post what you want to post.

If people like it, or not, they'll let you know.

This place seemed to be turning into a ghost town well before the news of the license termination.

Well less releases/active support, less to talk about I guess.

I'm surprised there's so little mechanical discussion, like builds and the such.

If you look at 5th edition D&D for example it as a much simpler mechanical system with a lot less room for optimisation but you still get an enormous discussion on builds and DPR.

I mean here's a basic example of something that's just been posted on the DnDNext subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/57otyy/a_oneplace_compilation_of_official_playable_races/

Even though there are character options scattered throughout the books I never found anything like this for Dark Heresy or really for any of the other systems (hence having to do it myself as I imagine most of you are aware).

I'm surprised there's so little mechanical discussion, like builds and the such.

If you look at 5th edition D&D for example it as a much simpler mechanical system with a lot less room for optimisation but you still get an enormous discussion on builds and DPR.

Uhm... Maybe because such discussions are absolutely uninteresting?

Generally, I've found that the community at large that play WH40KRPGs don't talk about optimization for the most part. Largely because if you want to make an effective character at something it's not difficult to in any way shape or form.

Sure there's a question concerning a certain ruling, or a power, but these are discussions for clarity's sake. Not to figure out how to min max it.

Generally, I've found that the community at large that play WH40KRPGs don't talk about optimization for the most part. Largely because if you want to make an effective character at something it's not difficult to in any way shape or form.

Sure there's a question concerning a certain ruling, or a power, but these are discussions for clarity's sake. Not to figure out how to min max it.

Yeah, I'm here to play fluffy 40k characters (primarily Sisters at this point ) but I did spend plenty of time thinking about the most powerful character I could make within the limitations I set for myself.

I've moved most of my discussion over to either the 40kRPG Reddit or Rollforheresy.net. I check here every day still, though, and contribute where I can. ^.^

Enthusiasm on all of the WH40KRP Forums has been declining sharply for the last few years. I've been especially disappointed with the lack of 'homebrew' stuff for DH2.

Enthusiasm on all of the WH40KRP Forums has been declining sharply for the last few years. I've been especially disappointed with the lack of 'homebrew' stuff for DH2.

Have you been to Rollforheresy.net? There's plenty of Homebrew there, and is regularly contributed to!

Generally, I've found that the community at large that play WH40KRPGs don't talk about optimization for the most part. Largely because if you want to make an effective character at something it's not difficult to in any way shape or form.

Sure there's a question concerning a certain ruling, or a power, but these are discussions for clarity's sake. Not to figure out how to min max it.

Yeah, I'm here to play fluffy 40k characters (primarily Sisters at this point ) but I did spend plenty of time thinking about the most powerful character I could make within the limitations I set for myself.

I tend to do that in D&D because our old GM and me never could get into anything of the official settings (greyhawk, the one with drizzt, etc...) and we usually effed about in some generic fantasy setting. Edit: I do it a bit of disservice; the world did have some nice background to it.

Think the last thing I tried to make with the 5th beta rules was a wood elf necromancer... (I can explain that one!) and while my 4th half orc was minmaxed, I actually roleplayed that one for once. (Almost got into PvP over orc babies)

With 40k I tend to play actual characters (Altough in the case of chaos SM they are horrible bastards)

Sadly haven't played in a while, people moving away and different scheduals, plus we've drfted more towards boardgaming aswel.

I'm surprised there's so little mechanical discussion, like builds and the such.

If you look at 5th edition D&D for example it as a much simpler mechanical system with a lot less room for optimisation but you still get an enormous discussion on builds and DPR.

Uhm... Maybe because such discussions are absolutely uninteresting?

Weird that the massive 5e audience is so interested in the uninteresting.

Generally, I've found that the community at large that play WH40KRPGs don't talk about optimization for the most part. Largely because if you want to make an effective character at something it's not difficult to in any way shape or form.

Sure there's a question concerning a certain ruling, or a power, but these are discussions for clarity's sake. Not to figure out how to min max it.

My friend hates all the mechanics and basically when created a DH character at 12k xp couldn't handle it. A simple build to follow would have taken a burden from his shoulders. I just did it for him, similarly another friend had the GM guide them through. They don't know at what rank to take an Alternate Career Rank in Rogue Trader because they can't math out what skills they lose out on and are fundamental to the rest of the thing, etc, etc.

How is anyone unfamiliar with the system meant to know whether Lightning Attack or Swift Attack or All Out Attack is better? And surely you are implying with your because that it's difficult in DnD, which is simply not the case, DnD is far easier to optimise, especially 5e.

You talk of optimising and builds, about mathing out skills. Let me just tell you a simple truth, if you don't pick Alternate Careers, talents, skills and even what attack they would choose in a combat based on your characters choices and mindset then you're not roleplaying. Might as well just play a MOBA if you want to optimise.

Generally, I've found that the community at large that play WH40KRPGs don't talk about optimization for the most part. Largely because if you want to make an effective character at something it's not difficult to in any way shape or form.

Sure there's a question concerning a certain ruling, or a power, but these are discussions for clarity's sake. Not to figure out how to min max it.

My friend hates all the mechanics and basically when created a DH character at 12k xp couldn't handle it. A simple build to follow would have taken a burden from his shoulders. I just did it for him, similarly another friend had the GM guide them through. They don't know at what rank to take an Alternate Career Rank in Rogue Trader because they can't math out what skills they lose out on and are fundamental to the rest of the thing, etc, etc.

How is anyone unfamiliar with the system meant to know whether Lightning Attack or Swift Attack or All Out Attack is better? And surely you are implying with your because that it's difficult in DnD, which is simply not the case, DnD is far easier to optimise, especially 5e.

I'll keep it brief since you know I don't like interacting with you based on our past.

That's cool your friend can dislike what they want. I feel the same way about DnD/Pathfinder after lvl 6.

Then make a simple build, it's not something the community at large discusses over here because we don't care.

Sounds like their problem if they don't want to sit down and figure it out. A lot of people don't bother min maxing that stuff, as stated earlier.

Well Lighting attack requires Swift attack so there's that. And it depends on if you want to worry about your opponent getting a reaction. Lighting/Swift/All-Out are all slightly different across the systems anyways so it requires you to read.

That's certainly an opinion there isn't. Don't you love subjective stuff stated objectively?

You talk of optimising and builds, about mathing out skills. Let me just tell you a simple truth, if you don't pick Alternate Careers, talents, skills and even what attack they would choose in a combat based on your characters choices and mindset then you're not roleplaying. Might as well just play a MOBA if you want to optimise.

Now that's not entirely fair. Some people enjoy min maxing so they don't need to worry about dying all the time in combat. They just want to breeze through the mechanical part of the roleplaying game and get to the talking to npcs part.

Generally, I've found that the community at large that play WH40KRPGs don't talk about optimization for the most part. Largely because if you want to make an effective character at something it's not difficult to in any way shape or form.

Sure there's a question concerning a certain ruling, or a power, but these are discussions for clarity's sake. Not to figure out how to min max it.

My friend hates all the mechanics and basically when created a DH character at 12k xp couldn't handle it. A simple build to follow would have taken a burden from his shoulders. I just did it for him, similarly another friend had the GM guide them through. They don't know at what rank to take an Alternate Career Rank in Rogue Trader because they can't math out what skills they lose out on and are fundamental to the rest of the thing, etc, etc.

How is anyone unfamiliar with the system meant to know whether Lightning Attack or Swift Attack or All Out Attack is better? And surely you are implying with your because that it's difficult in DnD, which is simply not the case, DnD is far easier to optimise, especially 5e.

I'll keep it brief since you know I don't like interacting with you based on our past.

That's cool your friend can dislike what they want. I feel the same way about DnD/Pathfinder after lvl 6.

Then make a simple build, it's not something the community at large discusses over here because we don't care.

Sounds like their problem if they don't want to sit down and figure it out. A lot of people don't bother min maxing that stuff, as stated earlier.

Well Lighting attack requires Swift attack so there's that. And it depends on if you want to worry about your opponent getting a reaction. Lighting/Swift/All-Out are all slightly different across the systems anyways so it requires you to read.

That's certainly an opinion there isn't. Don't you love subjective stuff stated objectively?

You talk of optimising and builds, about mathing out skills. Let me just tell you a simple truth, if you don't pick Alternate Careers, talents, skills and even what attack they would choose in a combat based on your characters choices and mindset then you're not roleplaying. Might as well just play a MOBA if you want to optimise.

Now that's not entirely fair. Some people enjoy min maxing so they don't need to worry about dying all the time in combat. They just want to breeze through the mechanical part of the roleplaying game and get to the talking to npcs part.

But it makes no coherent sense, the idea that you don't care about your character surviving is evidently not true. And yes while it's not the case at all in 5th edition really since you level up a class and have almost no choice it's exactly the case in Pathfinder. You see tons of builds in Pathfinder. It's not like the 40k rpg has a monopoly on roleplaying but more than really any other system that I can think of your choices in your build are so drastic that they can very easily kill you if you don't for example get two dodges, or buy dodge/parry. For example, sure let's roleplay I'll wear Imperial robes and no armour because I'm roleplaying my priest who likes to mingle with the crowds and doesn't carry much on his person since he's a poor persona, the other person is in Artificer Power Armour, because they're roleplaying their character. I mean I'm all for playing games which are about roleplaying but if I was going to say one system that's far and away so bogged down mechanically that it's crazy the 40k rpg would definitely be up there.

Also, regarding your point that I stated objectively. If you'd point me to the math on DPR for 40k it'd be very easy to compare them to the DPR formulas for other games. You've got an attack roll, an evade roll, a damage roll, and righteous fury. In 5th edition you just have an attack and damage. What about that do you think isn't objective?

You talk of optimising and builds, about mathing out skills. Let me just tell you a simple truth, if you don't pick Alternate Careers, talents, skills and even what attack they would choose in a combat based on your characters choices and mindset then you're not roleplaying. Might as well just play a MOBA if you want to optimise.

Again, this is totally true in 5th edition too.

Anyway especially in Dark Heresy the optimum role for the character you want to play is often at odds with the flavour one. Ie if you want to play a medic you're better off going anything but Chirugeon, etc. But regardless, I never stated that it was roleplaying, only that it's very prevalent elsewhere yet there's a complete lack here.

You talk of optimising and builds, about mathing out skills. Let me just tell you a simple truth, if you don't pick Alternate Careers, talents, skills and even what attack they would choose in a combat based on your characters choices and mindset then you're not roleplaying. Might as well just play a MOBA if you want to optimise.

It's a mix of RP and min/maxing for me.

For instance, when I was building Estelia (character sheet can be found in my sig) I knew I wanted to do an Adepta Sororitas character that used two pistols, but that didn't necessarily tell me which role to pick. I went with Desperado (which ended up kinda fitting the personality I was going for anyway) because it gives me the Finesse aptitude, which is very helpful for increasing Ballistic Skill and purchasing many of the talents I will want. Based off of my character concept, I can go through the list of talents and write down which ones I would like to have for that theme, but I still had to decide which ones to purchase with my starting XP. In the end, I chose the mix that I thought would make my character as viable in combat as possible.

So I made many of my decisions based on the mechanical advantages they grant, but the mix I have chosen (Acrobatics known , Dodge +10 , Two-Weapon Wielder Ranged , and Ambidextrous) put me in a spot I am very happy with from a fluff perspective. The character has abilities that are, in my opinion, fundamental to what I want the character to be.

Also, regarding your point that I stated objectively. If you'd point me to the math on DPR for 40k it'd be very easy to compare them to the DPR formulas for other games. You've got an attack roll, an evade roll, a damage roll, and righteous fury. In 5th edition you just have an attack and damage. What about that do you think isn't objective?

I'm not doing this again, you stated a subjective opinion as objective fact. There are some that find either system easier or more complicated.

I also could give so much of a grox patty less about "DPR" because I don't play roleplaying games for that. Instead of asking me for that, why don't you look for it, and you do it if you're that interested?

You talk of optimising and builds, about mathing out skills. Let me just tell you a simple truth, if you don't pick Alternate Careers, talents, skills and even what attack they would choose in a combat based on your characters choices and mindset then you're not roleplaying. Might as well just play a MOBA if you want to optimise.

It's a mix of RP and min/maxing for me.

For instance, when I was building Estelia (character sheet can be found in my sig) I knew I wanted to do an Adepta Sororitas character that used two pistols, but that didn't necessarily tell me which role to pick. I went with Desperado (which ended up kinda fitting the personality I was going for anyway) because it gives me the Finesse aptitude, which is very helpful for increasing Ballistic Skill and purchasing many of the talents I will want. Based off of my character concept, I can go through the list of talents and write down which ones I would like to have for that theme, but I still had to decide which ones to purchase with my starting XP. In the end, I chose the mix that I thought would make my character as viable in combat as possible.

So I made many of my decisions based on the mechanical advantages they grant, but the mix I have chosen (Acrobatics known , Dodge +10 , Two-Weapon Wielder Ranged , and Ambidextrous) put me in a spot I am very happy with from a fluff perspective. The character has abilities that are, in my opinion, fundamental to what I want the character to be.

To be fair you actively chose a mechanical disadvantage for RP purposes. Giving up a Tearing Weapon and free weapon training for a much weaker replacement arguably.

As much as I may harp on the Sisters of Battle for my own dumb reasons, ServantofDante you've done exactly what I would ask one of my players to do when making a character. That is looking for a mechanical representation of their character's preferred fighting style and weapons as determined by their personality and choices in life. Had you said you wanted to play a Sister and then not taken e.g. the Common Lore (Imperial Creed) skill or Hatred (Mutants) when you had the chance bcs you instead wanted "a second dodge" quicker I would be disappointed.

You would be robbing your character of the possible character growth and choices necessary to justify something purely for mechanical benefit. That's lazy in my eyes.

As to DPR and combat builds and all that... I'll let the children and WoW players deal with those, my players and I are here to roleplay.

As much as I may harp on the Sisters of Battle for my own dumb reasons, ServantofDante you've done exactly what I would ask one of my players to do when making a character. That is looking for a mechanical representation of their character's preferred fighting style and weapons as determined by their personality and choices in life. Had you said you wanted to play a Sister and then not taken e.g. the Common Lore (Imperial Creed) skill or Hatred (Mutants) when you had the chance bcs you instead wanted "a second dodge" quicker I would be disappointed.

You would be robbing your character of the possible character growth and choices necessary to justify something purely for mechanical benefit. That's lazy in my eyes.

As to DPR and combat builds and all that... I'll let the children and WoW players deal with those, my players and I are here to roleplay.

I'm really disappointed with the Hatred talents. They are soooo quintessentially Sisters of Battle flavor-wise, but they only do anything in hand to hand. In the case of Inellia (my ascended Sister created with 14,000 XP using the Inquisitor's Handbook career), I only gave her Hatred (heretics), because the hatred talents do absolutely nothing for her when she's doing what she is supposed to be doing: shooting things. I them to do something . Even if it's just like a WP bonus on fear when around a hated enemy (not that that would help Inellia either: she has the Soul of Stone paragon talent, so she's more fearless than a space marine in the Deathwatch RPG).

Eidt: so I gave her Forbidden Lore (Heresy) +20 and a couple other Forbidden Lore skills. And she has the anti-psyker paragon talent. She can do some pretty impressive stuff vs. Daemons and Witches.

Weird that the massive 5e audience is so interested in the uninteresting

And why their opinion about 5e must have anything to do with mine opinion about WH40K RPG?

BTW, argument " Fifty thousand lemmings can't be wrong " doesn't work too well for lemmings in real life...

Generally, I've found that the community at large that play WH40KRPGs don't talk about optimization for the most part. Largely because if you want to make an effective character at something it's not difficult to in any way shape or form.

Sure there's a question concerning a certain ruling, or a power, but these are discussions for clarity's sake. Not to figure out how to min max it.

Yeah, I'm here to play fluffy 40k characters (primarily Sisters at this point ) but I did spend plenty of time thinking about the most powerful character I could make within the limitations I set for myself.

I tend to do that in D&D because our old GM and me never could get into anything of the official settings (greyhawk, the one with drizzt, etc...) and we usually effed about in some generic fantasy setting. Edit: I do it a bit of disservice; the world did have some nice background to it.

Think the last thing I tried to make with the 5th beta rules was a wood elf necromancer... (I can explain that one!) and while my 4th half orc was minmaxed, I actually roleplayed that one for once. (Almost got into PvP over orc babies)

With 40k I tend to play actual characters (Altough in the case of chaos SM they are horrible bastards)

Sadly haven't played in a while, people moving away and different scheduals, plus we've drfted more towards boardgaming aswel.

I actually cried a little bit that you remember the name of Greyhawk, but not Forgotten Realms. "The one with Driz'zt" is my favorite campaign setting, and I'm rather glad 5e seems to be focusing on it, more than Greyhawk. Shame 4e ruined it SO HARD, but 5e has mostly fixed that.

Yeah, over on the Rogue Trader forum, we had various talks about optimizing, mostly in ships, due to the ship combat rules, but characters got in there, too. While I can definitely see the benefit, and being the snowflake I can be, I often try to plan out several levels, to see how quickly I can get all of the things I want, and often HATE playing "level 1", I rarely pick things that are that great, and prefer to more play the character. I have, in my opinion, a rather decent ability to persuade my GMs to let me have stuff I shouldn't, in exchange for problems I write up, and they usually go for it, but the catch is usually I can't let anyone else know I can/am ___________", and I've honestly had more fun playing the characters, hiding their stuff, and only using it sparingly, then I probably would have actually using it. I'd rather have fun with the character, and the story, then min/max the crap out of them; that's what save editors are for in video games, after I've already beaten them, once.