More specifically how does it work during combat, does it need an action or a maneuver to ignite, does the user switch to vehicle range bands (for movement)?

One maneuver to activate/Accelerate. and another to Fly/Drive. I might even allow an incidental to activate, and one maneuver if you are doing what Boba Fett did in RotJ and hop from Jabba's sail barge onto the Skiff. Yes RAW would mean you are doing Planetary scale movement when using the Jet Pack

Good discussion about it earlier in in this thread

But there really should be a discussion on whether you used the Movie version of the Jet Pack where it is used to move from one place to the other (the Villian's quick escape). or the more "Cool factor" version like the Rocketeer we see in Clone wars.

IIRC (because it's kinda weird) it works kinda-sorta like a vehicle. So to take off you'll need to take the Accelerate or Punch It maneuver to get to speed and then a Move maneuver ( possibly as a Piloting:Planetary checked maneuver or action, as GM demands) to actually move. Landing would likewise be a Move to get to the position and the Decelerate or Full Stop to switch back to walking.

You don't switch range band scale unless the entire encounter switches range bands. Typically the band scale won't change though, allowing the jetpack to "move within the close range band" to cover most movement at personal scale. This means he can go anywhere from Extreme to Short in one maneuver. Note however that engaging/disengaging from a target is it's own separate maneuver, so you can't go from Extreme to Engaged in one maneuver even with a jetpack.

Also note usual issues of jetpacks, and how things like a despair can cause a misfire or flameout, and how falling damage hurts... a lot...

Technically, you become a vehicle when activating your jetpack. So, yes, you are moving at vehicle range bands. But, you also need to spend a manoeuvre to change your speed, and one to move. Which both are pilot only manoeuvres; doing both in the same round is going to take two out of the three system strain. Oh, and when your movement requires a Pilot check due to terrain it becomes an action, apparently. In my opinion it's a just a little messed up.

I've been considering the jetpack granting a fully tricked out force jump, instead. Haven't decided yet.

Technically, you become a vehicle when activating your jetpack. So, yes, you are moving at vehicle range bands. But, you also need to spend a manoeuvre to change your speed, and one to move. Which both are pilot only manoeuvres; doing both in the same round is going to take two out of the three system strain. Oh, and when your movement requires a Pilot check due to terrain it becomes an action, apparently. In my opinion it's a just a little messed up.

I've been considering the jetpack granting a fully tricked out force jump, instead. Haven't decided yet.

Like a mix between Enhance's leap upgrade and the Kyuzp leap ability? How would you go about doing that?

Would you change the system strain of the jetpack and require the leap to work similarly to the Kyuzo?

Would you require a pilot (planetary) or perhaps coordination check as a maneuver to leap anywhere within medium/long range?

When I read "any location" in the Kyuzo ability and the Enhance power upgrade, I generally rule that this includes engaging an opponent. I know that's probably not RAW nor RAI ... but hey, it's more effective that way... for my players and me

More specifically how does it work during combat, does it need an action or a maneuver to ignite, does the user switch to vehicle range bands (for movement)?

It's left to the GM. Remember just because it uses a vehicle stats does not automatically mean you have to use vehicle range bands. The chase rules point out in particular the GM may want to sub personal scale ranges for vehicles. Not to mention just because a jetpack can go a certain speed doesn't mean you should. Rocketing across a hangar bay with a missile on your back might be a really F-ing bad idea and you certainly are justified in imposing a Pilot check for someone that wants to floor it with a jetpack from extreme to short and stop to engage in combat. Any PCs that whine you can point out Talents like Master Driver are there for a reason, and maybe only people that are really skilled should be zooming mach 1 with a rocket on their back indoors....

If I was disappointed in one thing in Forged in Battle it was that they repeated Heavy. I think a spec that was focused in particular of this issue of jetpacks and speeder bikes in personal ground combat was a missed opportunity for a great spec personally.

Technically, you become a vehicle when activating your jetpack. So, yes, you are moving at vehicle range bands. But, you also need to spend a manoeuvre to change your speed, and one to move. Which both are pilot only manoeuvres; doing both in the same round is going to take two out of the three system strain. Oh, and when your movement requires a Pilot check due to terrain it becomes an action, apparently. In my opinion it's a just a little messed up.

I've been considering the jetpack granting a fully tricked out force jump, instead. Haven't decided yet.

Like a mix between Enhance's leap upgrade and the Kyuzp leap ability? How would you go about doing that?

Would you change the system strain of the jetpack and require the leap to work similarly to the Kyuzo?

Would you require a pilot (planetary) or perhaps coordination check as a maneuver to leap anywhere within medium/long range?

When I read "any location" in the Kyuzo ability and the Enhance power upgrade, I generally rule that this includes engaging an opponent. I know that's probably not RAW nor RAI ... but hey, it's more effective that way... for my players and me

My original considerations were gravitating around simply emulating Enhance: With a jetpack, besides using it as a personal vehicle, you can use it tactically to jump horizontally or vertically to any location within medium range as an action (manoeuvre with at least one rank of planetary Piloting). Terrain or Navigation Hazards would require a check and therefore an action against Red (Silhouette 1/Speed 1). Engagement would be handled as with Force Leap.

As I'm adverse to implementing FaD in a Rebellion Era campaign (professional force users just are the wrong flavour) I didn't consider Kyuzo or anything.

Anyhow, "buying" the effect of ca. 40 XP for cr 4.500 seems a little unbalanced to me. You would have to make the drawbacks show.

One of the things we get to play with is items that are introduced accidentally, but aren’t given any stats. Like the grav belt.

Since it doesn’t have any official stats, you can make it work however you want.

In a game I played in, my GM and I worked it out that it reduced the effective weight of the person wearing it, and therefore allowed my character to jump much further than would otherwise have been normal.

The unit I had was slightly wonky and didn’t always work correctly, but for me that was part of the fun.

Just a thought.

I was considering a manoeuvre within medium range, requiring a pilot (planetary) or coordination check as a manoeuvre, not an action (there is precedence for making checks as manoeuvres in this game), which allows you to insta-engage. And within long range, but possibly no insta-engage option... Difficulty would be be based on distance, not speed/silhouette. So Medium range would be easy (or average), perhaps upgraded (as a not to the vehicle bit), and long would be average (or hard), upgraded once (if hard) or twice (if average)... for insta-engage I could also consider require 2-3 advantages or a triumph for both medium and long range leaps...

Technically, you become a vehicle when activating your jetpack. So, yes, you are moving at vehicle range bands. But, you also need to spend a manoeuvre to change your speed, and one to move. Which both are pilot only manoeuvres; doing both in the same round is going to take two out of the three system strain. Oh, and when your movement requires a Pilot check due to terrain it becomes an action, apparently. In my opinion it's a just a little messed up.

I've been considering the jetpack granting a fully tricked out force jump, instead. Haven't decided yet.

Like a mix between Enhance's leap upgrade and the Kyuzp leap ability? How would you go about doing that?

Would you change the system strain of the jetpack and require the leap to work similarly to the Kyuzo?

Would you require a pilot (planetary) or perhaps coordination check as a maneuver to leap anywhere within medium/long range?

When I read "any location" in the Kyuzo ability and the Enhance power upgrade, I generally rule that this includes engaging an opponent. I know that's probably not RAW nor RAI ... but hey, it's more effective that way... for my players and me

Under a Black Sun offers an alternative in the form of a jetpack operator that is merely allowed to move vertically and ignore difficult terrain, but otherwise moves normally. So there's that option as well...

Under a Black Sun offers an alternative in the form of a jetpack operator that is merely allowed to move vertically and ignore difficult terrain, but otherwise moves normally. So there's that option as well...

That sounds like a use of the “Hoverer” talent. Which might be related to something in the EU called a Repulsorlift Pack, as opposed to a Jetpack.

Under a Black Sun offers an alternative in the form of a jetpack operator that is merely allowed to move vertically and ignore difficult terrain, but otherwise moves normally. So there's that option as well...

That sounds like a use of the “Hoverer” talent. Which might be related to something in the EU called a Repulsorlift Pack, as opposed to a Jetpack.

Similar

I suspect that UaBS was written before the Rules were totally locked down, and that was one movement solution they had in mind...

Still if you're looking for a simpler solution and don't need jetpacks to operate at planetary scale it's not a bad option...

If I was disappointed in one thing in Forged in Battle it was that they repeated Heavy. I think a spec that was focused in particular of this issue of jetpacks and speeder bikes in personal ground combat was a missed opportunity for a great spec personally.

Republic Rocket Jumpers for the win!

In all seriousness, though, I think the issue with range bands is one that falls under GM fiat. Switching between personal & planetary scale in this scenario makes little sense; only one combatant is using a "vehicle," and the attempt to switch scale is clearly exploitative. As a GM, I'd have no qualms about saying "no, it doesn't work that way - try this instead."

My group keeps things like this simple. Full planetary scale speed often can't be reached in the middle of personal scale combat in a specific area due to hovering, turning, repositioning, etc. We allow jet packs, jump boots, and other speed enhancers to give PCs the opportunity to use a Piloting check as part of a maneuver to turn it into two maneuvers worth of distance. The GM comes up with the difficulty according to the situation. So far, it's served us well and has helped keep a good pace in combat. No muss, no fuss!

More specifically how does it work during combat, does it need an action or a maneuver to ignite, does the user switch to vehicle range bands (for movement)?

Seems to have two modes. You can just use to hover and use the basic rules for flying, meaning personal scale speed, spending maneuvers, etc … just like flying is described in the rules for creatures with the native ability to fly.

Or you can use to as full fledged vehicle on planetary speed. In that case you need use the vehicle rules, which means one maneuver to accelerate to speed one, another one to actually go somewhere, etc … and be afair of despair in that case, because your hull is your freaking body and the system strain of the jetpack is super low, meaning that double maneuvers are not doable that often in a row without damage control actions.

edit:

BTW this would be consistent with canon use of jetpacks by mandalorians which can use them at vehicle speeds and hover speeds in combat (See TCW for lots of jetpack action) and as well consistent with "under the black sun", creature rules on flying and vehicle rules mentioned in the jetpack and jump boot distributions.

The system strain and penalty of double maneuvers to accelerate and decelerate seem a good balance for the kind of speed and jumps you can make with the jetpacks as well.

More specifically how does it work during combat, does it need an action or a maneuver to ignite, does the user switch to vehicle range bands (for movement)?

Seems to have two modes. You can just use to hover and use the basic rules for flying, meaning personal scale speed, spending maneuvers, etc … just like flying is described in the rules for creatures with the native ability to fly.

Or you can use to as full fledged vehicle on planetary speed. In that case you need use the vehicle rules, which means one maneuver to accelerate to speed one, another one to actually go somewhere, etc … and be afair of despair in that case, because your hull is your freaking body and the system strain of the jetpack is super low, meaning that double maneuvers are not doable that often in a row without damage control actions.

That seems quite an elegant solution, can you give me a page number for the rules on flying creatures?

More specifically how does it work during combat, does it need an action or a maneuver to ignite, does the user switch to vehicle range bands (for movement)?

Seems to have two modes. You can just use to hover and use the basic rules for flying, meaning personal scale speed, spending maneuvers, etc … just like flying is described in the rules for creatures with the native ability to fly.

Or you can use to as full fledged vehicle on planetary speed. In that case you need use the vehicle rules, which means one maneuver to accelerate to speed one, another one to actually go somewhere, etc … and be afair of despair in that case, because your hull is your freaking body and the system strain of the jetpack is super low, meaning that double maneuvers are not doable that often in a row without damage control actions.

That seems quite an elegant solution, can you give me a page number for the rules on flying creatures?

AoR, p214, special black box titled flying. Basically I would allow to use the flying and hover talent if a jetpack is equipped.

I would ignore for jetpack the "can move from long range to short range using a single maneuver" part, because that is what planetary speed is for and that should cost two maneuvers, but that is me aiming for keeping balance … which is a little ironic as my own character is an ace who loves to stay out of trouble with flying into extreme range and sniping from there whenever possible. ;-)

edit: BTW, tons of flying mounts in Stay on Target for beast riders to enjoy too.

Now i am thinking what kind of action it would take to activate either mode, incidental or maneuver. What do you think? (i am leaning torwards incidental for both)

Now i am thinking what kind of action it would take to activate either mode, incidental or maneuver. What do you think? (i am leaning torwards incidental for both)

I’d be inclined to treat it like drawing your weapon, with an appropriate “Quickdraw” talent that the PCs can get to compensate.

So, it starts off as a maneuver to activate in either mode, and then you can do a second maneuver to actually change range bands, and then an action to attack.

But with the “Quick Launch” talent for 10-15xp, activation can now become an Incidental.

Now i am thinking what kind of action it would take to activate either mode, incidental or maneuver. What do you think? (i am leaning torwards incidental for both)

I’d be inclined to treat it like drawing your weapon, with an appropriate “Quickdraw” talent that the PCs can get to compensate.

So, it starts off as a maneuver to activate in either mode, and then you can do a second maneuver to actually change range bands, and then an action to attack.

But with the “Quick Launch” talent for 10-15xp, activation can now become an Incidental.

Good solution but with that solution you can't have the "firing the jetpack and zooming away" that we have so often see because you would need 3 manuevers (1 to activate it, 1 to accelerate and 1 to fly) which can't be done (unless you have that specific talent).

Good solution but with that solution you can't have the "firing the jetpack and zooming away" that we have so often see because you would need 3 manuevers (1 to activate it, 1 to accelerate and 1 to fly) which can't be done (unless you have that specific talent).

Yup, all the Mandalorians we’ve seen have Jetpacks would definitely have had that talent.

And it wouldn’t be too expensive to learn that talent, for someone who wanted to replicate that activity.

Now i am thinking what kind of action it would take to activate either mode, incidental or maneuver. What do you think? (i am leaning torwards incidental for both)

I’d be inclined to treat it like drawing your weapon, with an appropriate “Quickdraw” talent that the PCs can get to compensate.

So, it starts off as a maneuver to activate in either mode, and then you can do a second maneuver to actually change range bands, and then an action to attack.

But with the “Quick Launch” talent for 10-15xp, activation can now become an Incidental.

Good solution but with that solution you can't have the "firing the jetpack and zooming away" that we have so often see because you would need 3 manuevers (1 to activate it, 1 to accelerate and 1 to fly) which can't be done (unless you have that specific talent).

I'm going to handle it like this: Activating the short burst tactical move is part of the action (if a check is required)/manoeuvre. In this mode the jetpack is considered activated as vehicle with speed 0. Switching to strategical vehicle movement is an incidental.

That way, the sudden retreat would work as follows: You switch movement mode (incidental), then you accelerate to speed 1 (first pilot manoeuvre) and career away (second pilot manoeuvre, 2 system strain) to extreme personal scale (close planetary).

You can distance yourself quite effectively from combat, but will be in range (at least theoretically) of far hitters for one last shot. Your jetpack is on the brink of failing; so, you won't be able to pull of that stunt again before you do damage control.

The only problem for me is the acceleration maneuver, you are going from speed 0 to speed 1 but without moving at all ??

I can't imagine any good explanation...

scenario:

You kiss your wife cause you have to go. You kick off the jetpack thrusters.

First round you accelerate from 0 to 1 and that's it cause your jetpack has only 1 system strain left

Round 2 : seconds laters your jetpack is over 100 decibels, at speed 1 but you didn't move a centimeter yet !! now you use that maneuver to actually move ... your wife is now deaf !

strange...

The only problem for me is the acceleration maneuver, you are going from speed 0 to speed 1 but without moving at all ??

I can't imagine any good explanation...

You've never seen a high performance car floored and it's tires spin and smoke with no real forward movement on the car?

I find it kinda interesting the assumptions that being at speed condition 1+=must be flying.

There's nothing that says you can't idle the jetpack at speed 1 and take your actual move maneuver based on if you are walking or flying.

This would allow the system to function RAW and still match up with the material we see on the big and small screen. A lot of jetpackers would simply open an encounter by spinning up the turbines in much the same way a force user commits Enhance. Then they could do all the fancy stuff you see no problem.