So I have a player who has just been lucky rolling triumph on quite often and eventually he went to look over something and it was just a skelton with shredded clothes and he rolled a triumph. When little things like this happen do you always need to grant your players a positive event from this? other examples looking through empty crates that the empire used to try and draw out this group.
Triumph, does something great always need to happen?
Counter question: why was he rolling a skill check?
Counter question: why was he rolling a skill check?
Started by him saying do I notice anything, I say roll a perception check (easy) slightly dark in the area. He proceeds to roll a triumph. I explain everything he sees and notices a skeleton. He suggests that the triumph should mean he spotted something on the body or in the area which is just a tomb entrance. I say no, we continue.
If there was some sort of significance to the skeleton, then a Triumph could help unravel that mystery. Perhaps he remembers reading/hearing about a character that was wearing clothes closely resembling these rags, who suddenly disappeared. And that character had a great wealth of prototype technology that also disappeared. And then you notice characteristic claw marks on the bones...a few skill checks later, it turns out that the dude was killed by a Gundark and, that the Gundark's lair is near here...(and after the adventure, you reveal that the Gundark took over the dude's hideout, where you'll find his laboratory and several still-functioning items.
But if there's nothing special about the skeleton, then there's really no reason to roll. Next time, just don't have him roll a check to notice mundane stuff. It works (or at least, it can work) in d20 games, but as your question demonstrates, this system is simply not built for it. If he asks if he can see anything, and it's just boring crap with no clues or cool items anything, the rules give you two options: describe what he sees (or what you want him to see), or just do a passive check. Figure out what the difficulty is, and subtract that difficulty (2 for Average, 3 for Hard, etc) from his skill ranks. If you wind up with a positive number, it's a Success. And then you figure out what a success means in that instance.
If there was some sort of significance to the skeleton, then a Triumph could help unravel that mystery. Perhaps he remembers reading/hearing about a character that was wearing clothes closely resembling these rags, who suddenly disappeared. And that character had a great wealth of prototype technology that also disappeared. And then you notice characteristic claw marks on the bones...a few skill checks later, it turns out that the dude was killed by a Gundark and, that the Gundark's lair is near here...(and after the adventure, you reveal that the Gundark took over the dude's hideout, where you'll find his laboratory and several still-functioning items.
But if there's nothing special about the skeleton, then there's really no reason to roll. Next time, just don't have him roll a check to notice mundane stuff. It works (or at least, it can work) in d20 games, but as your question demonstrates, this system is simply not built for it. If he asks if he can see anything, and it's just boring crap with no clues or cool items anything, the rules give you two options: describe what he sees (or what you want him to see), or just do a passive check. Figure out what the difficulty is, and subtract that difficulty (2 for Average, 3 for Hard, etc) from his skill ranks. If you wind up with a positive number, it's a Success. And then you figure out what a success means in that instance.
I'll go ahead and do that. I will admit I still have that D20 system mentality and this is a bit confusing on what would require a check and what wouldn't. Thanks for the advice!
I'm new to this RPG, but our friendly comic book store staff suggested this advice to me that helped differentiate skills from Pathfinder, for example. I think it applies:
If you need to make a non-combat skill roll, pre-determine how Triumphs and Despairs might be spent. If this is too much work, reconsider the need for a skill check.
Does this help?
To distill away's point
If you ask for a roll to be made, ideally you will also have an idea how any advantages, threats, triumphs, or despairs can be spent. Be wary of asking for rolls if you don't have those things in mind (...easier said than done, I know, and it's hard to break the habit of just asking for rolls when you come from other systems...)
As for scale of effect, note that a triumph can be used to upgrade an upcoming dice pool. That can be interesting, but not as massive as the fluff text would have you believe. Basically, triumphs are as useful as destiny points.
Last point: I'd be wary of just saying "no" to such a request. The meme here is "yes, but..." or "yes, and...". If you just say "no" when players are trying to use the narrative dice as they are meant to be used, they'll stop trying. I'd reward the attempt at least, even if it's just, say, a skeleton key for a lock box somewhere further in the story that you have to invent on the spot that has no real plot significance.
One additional suggestion along the lines of what Whafrog suggested. Make yourself an unusual item table (if you have 5e d&d think the trinkets table). That way you can drop something unusual that can then lead to a whole adventure later. What was that Skelington doing with a small toy box? Or the centre capsule from a chocolate surprise egg?.
Or you could always go the "You pat down the skeleton quickly - hey, they had 500 bucks in the pocket!"
(or they had the last foil stamped Sithymon card you need for your collection)
(Or they have a USB drive full of Hutt porn you can give to your patron for a two point reduction in your Debt Obligation)
Hutt p0rn, that made me think of Twi'Lek p0rn which made me think of inter-species Lamproid p0rn. Which is very disgusting and disturbing and illegal in Imperial space as well as incurring a Death Mark for possesion in 69 Outer Rim systems.
We do what whafrog said ... It doesn't happen often but, when there isn't something to use the triumph on, I've just flipped a Destiny Point for the players. As a table rule, we slide it in front of the player who rolled the triumph and give them first dibs on using it.
For us, this comes up most often with Perception checks, when someone fails the check but does roll a triumph. Since they failed the check, I can't really give them more information or a vital clue. But a Destiny Point does cushion that blow.
If someone is rolling Triumph on a search check you can always let them find 100 credits worth of random salvage. It's not like it's breaking the game if you really do find something that wasn't outlined in the adventure with a search triumph. It doesn't have to be super valuable though.
Edited by AetrionThe triumph could also be something unrelated to the current situation but represents a beneficial hook or at least an asset for some future interaction or scenario.
If all else fails, convert the triumph into something else (+1 success on the next check, etc).
(Or they have a USB drive full of Hutt porn you can give to your patron for a two point reduction in your Debt Obligation)
Heh. One of my players came up with the backstory that his character worked stage crew for Hutt porn. "I've seen stuff, man."
I would propose that advantage-threat-triumph-despair should only come into play on significant checks. In general, that means checks with dramatic consequence attached to out outcome. If the game will move more smoothly or the narrative will play out with less hassle for you if the check is treated as binary-success failure, tell the player its a straight-up success-fail and just do it . But, if noticing something is plot critical then I wouldn't hang it on a roll. I'd just make sure they notice it by fiat.
Edited by VondyIf there isn't any dramatic consequence then it shouldn't be rolled for at all - it just gets done, and the details don't really matter.