Returning to Arkham with questions

By Serazu, in Arkham Horror Second Edition

Good day to all. There has been literally years since my last AH playthrough and when I played a couple of games today, some questions concerning certain rulings inevitably came up. Can anyone help?

1. There's a monster on a location and a gate too. I move into the location and evade the monster. I travel to an other world, do what I have to do and return to the location. I evade the monster again and seal the gate.

Did I do everything correctly?

2. In the above example, what happens to the monster in the location now that an elder sign is there? I know that elder sign protected locations prohibit monsters from appearing, but what happens to monsters which were already there before the sign? Does the sign banish them, so I return the monster to the box?

3. The Find Gate spell allows me to cast it during the movement phase and immediately return to Arkham from an other world.

I enter a location with a gate in it and am teleported to the left side of an other world. I use the spell to instantly return to the location and seal it. All in one turn.

Is the above move eligible, because I did just that in my last playthrough. My reasoning behind it was that there's no specific mention as to when exactly during the movement phase I may use the spell. So I decided to use it at the very end of the phase, after entering the other world. Then comes the Arkham encounters phase where I seal the gate as usual.

Was I legitimate in the above or did I cheat Cthulhu?

4. Science building. From its wording, I take it that I cannot spend, let us say, two gate tokens for four clues. If I wanted to get four clues, then I'd have to spend two turns there, exchanging a single gate token for two clues during each turn. Correct?

Many thanks.

Hi, and welcome back :)

As for your questions:

1. Whe you return from an OW, you get a "free pass" from monsters on the gate, lasting for the Movement Phase of the round you returned to Arkham. This means that if you return to Arkham normally (thus, during the Upkeep you're in the 2nd area of the OW and you move back to Arkham, or you use a Find Gate spell), then for that round only you don't have to deal with monsters on the gate ("don't have to", not "mustnt": if you wish, you may cherry pick the monsters you want to fight); but if you're returned to Arkham during the OW encounters phase, then Movement for that round has already gone, and consequently during the next round you'll have to deal with the monsters on the gate

2. Putting an ES on a location doesn't mean monsters are pushed away: as you say, monsters cannot appear there, but in your example, the monster was already there, so, it stays

3. If you check the wording on Find Gate, it says "Movement phase": you enter in the OW during the Arkham Encounter phase (you move to the gate during the movement, but the actual "entering" the OW happens because during the Arkham Encounters phase you encountered the gate; this is a pretty common mistake but has huge consequences on strategy: entering during Phase III means that while you're on a gate in Phase II, another investigator can come over the gate, give you an ES or another item and go away without being sucked into the gate), thus, you cannot cast Find Gate during that round

4. Aye, it's one action to spend 1 trophy to get 2 clues. Multiple trophies can be cashed, but the price is always 1 action / trophy, so, cashing more than 1 trophy requires extra rounds

  1. Maybe. Just follow the phases. You move on phase 2: this is when you deal with the monster. You enter the gate on phase 3.

    Keep in mind that on the turn you return to Arkham , you may freely avoid dealing with any or all of the monsters on your space.

  2. Nothing special happens to the monster—it remains. All that changes is that "A monster appears" encounters now just do nothing.
  3. You can't do this, since you enter the gate during the Arkham Encounters phase. The FAQ details a ruling where if a Nightgaunt throws you into a gate on the movement phase, you can then cast Find Gate , but I disagree with this ruling as being too hastily decided—it can EASILY be abused for a quick win. There is at least one contradiction in the FAQ, so I'm comfortable ignoring certain rulings.
  4. That's correct. You may obtain exactly two clue tokens using the Dissect special ability.
Edited by Tibs

Thank you again for your fast replies.

Further expounding upon the elder sign / monsters interaction, one more question for you:

My investigator is in a location with an elder sign in it. Can a Hound of Tindalos move there or does the ES prevent it? Taking literally the rules into account, it can, since the sign prevents a monster's appearance and not its movement. Correct?

Aye, this sounds correct to me

Still rusty and it shows...

1. I was sitting nice and slow in a location and a gate and a monster appeared courtesy of an encounter card. Since both appeared simultaneously, the monster was to stay on the board till dealt with permanently. The rules state that when a gate is opened at an investigator's location, (s)he's immediately thrown through it to the corresponding other world. So, I did just that, ignoring the monster. I made history in the other world as usual and then I returned to Arkham. Since I got my "free pass", I ignored the monster in the location and sealed the gate. I sneaked past it in my movement phase during the following turn. Was I correct per the rules?

2. In the above example, I didn't add a doom token to the AO's chart when the gate appeared. Was I correct?

3. Generally speaking, with the exception of encounters dictated by a card, monsters and investigators interact with each other, during the movement phase. Correct? I'm not speaking about special cases, such as a Cthonian's movement etc.

4. Can someone define "items" please? Are they only the common and unique items or does the term include spells, skills, the deputy car and gun, bank loans, money etc.?

Thanks.

Edited by Serazu

  1. That sounds right. You did your OW encounters and movement as normal then? The OW encounter isn't what sent you back to Arkham? I'll be clearer: whenever an OW encounter sends you back to Arkham, that's phase 4—the turn will have ended before your next movement phase, so you'll never get the "freebie." But if you return via normal movement, you should be getting a freebie.
  2. No, every newly-opened gate does two things: adds a doom token and spawns a monster.
  3. Monsters on the board can only be "dealt with" during the Movement phase, correct. All other phases that move monsters and/or investigators together are just setting up for the next Movement-phase showdown.
  4. Items are anything with "item" in the group title (Common, Unique, Exhibit [CoDP expansion]), and Spells. There are a few honorary items (which means they can be traded):

    ​Patrol Wagon

    Deputy Revolver

    Rail Pass [DH]

    Nothing else counts as an item, and the only non-item thing that can be traded is money.

  1. That sounds right. You did your OW encounters and movement as normal then? The OW encounter isn't what sent you back to Arkham? I'll be clearer: whenever an OW encounter sends you back to Arkham, that's phase 4—the turn will have ended before your next movement phase, so you'll never get the "freebie." But if you return via normal movement, you should be getting a freebie.

I followed the usual procedure. I assume that what you 're saying is that if a gate card sent me back to Arkham, then I'd have the opportunity to close the gate during next turn, so I'd have to deal with the monster first during movement phase. If, on the contrary, I returned via the usual way, then I'd have the opportunity to close the gate without having to deal with the monster guarding it first. If this is the case, yeah, I know it.

If I find myself in a store and choose to reveal the top three cards of the respective deck, nothing is to my liking though, may I opt not to buy anything?

Edited by Serazu

When I started reading your post, at "If I mind myself in a store", my immediate thought was "BUY ALL THE EXPANSIONS YOU FIND!!!!"

*serious mode: on*

You must buy an item of the three offered. I don't remember if this was clarified in the FAQ or in the thread with Kevin's official answers, but we got an official verdict, and buying something is compulsory. Imagine the world's ending: if you don't find what you need the most, you get the thing that could be more useful

When I started reading your post, at "If I mind myself in a store", my immediate thought was "BUY ALL THE EXPANSIONS YOU FIND!!!!"

lol

So, when I next find myself in a real games store with AH expansions amongst the merchandise, there's no need to ask you which of the two should I do: buy an expansion or have a random encounter with another game or another customer.

Buying something is compulsory, but not fully compulsory: you must by one card if able, but may not buy more than one, even if able.

Sorry for the bombardment of questions. Three new this time:

1. Just to be sure: After my skill roll, I may spend as many clue tokens as I wish one at a time up to my reserve. Right? For instance, I fight an AO and I need five more successes to defeat him. I net three on my roll. I spend a clue. I succeed. One more success to go. I spend another. Fail. I spend one more clue and succeed. I achieved the required number of successes and the dude is defeated. Correct?

2. I know that during battle with an AO I get the chance to refresh my cards, but do I get a full upkeep? In other words, do I still roll for bank loans, blessings/curses, retainers etc.?

3. Enchanted Jewelry: If I lose 3 stamina simultaneously and the card has no tokens on it, can I put 3 tokens on it all at once, thus utterly nullifying the loss?

Thanks.

1. Correct. Every clue allows for an extra die to be rolled, even when you normally would not be allowed to roll any dice

2. You get a full Upkeep; still, you don't roll for a few effects. You may want to check the FAQ for the complete list (sorry, not at home now and I can't check the details)

3. Yes

Buying something is compulsory

Youre talking about me here arent you ;)

There was a card while in the Abyss which sent me to the Dreamlands. I put my investigator in the left portion of the Dreamlands, not delayed and had an encounter there (for a total of two encounters at that turn, the first one being the one in the Abyss). In the following turn, I moved to the right portion and had my second encounter in the Dreamlands. During the next turn I had to return to Arkham; unfortunately, no gate to the Dreamlands was present, so I became LiTaS and put the marker on its side on the corresponding part of the board. During the next turn all I could do was stand my investigator. The following turn, I put his mark to a location to my liking. Did I do things correctly?

Lost turns mean no upkeep as well, so no rolls for bank loans, blessings etc. Correct?

If there are two gates in Arkham leading to an Other World I'm in, may I pick whichever is to my best interest to return or do I have to return to the gate I initially stepped through? I seem to remember I may pick whichever I prefer, but perhaps my memory is rusty.

1. You have the second encounter (Dreamlands) only if the Abyss encounter instructs you to move to the Dreamlands and have an encounter there. Otherwise you move to the Dreamlands and you have no encounter in this round since you already had one. The other part is almost correct: from LiTaS you may return to any location or street area on the board (thus, it's not said it must be a location). Also please remember you return to Arkham during the Upkeep (with all its implications: for example if you return on a location with a clue, you don't gain it, unless you're there during movement)

2. Correct, no Upkeep while LiTaS

3. You are allowed to pick which of the two you wanna return to unless it's an encounter that has the effect of you returning to Arkham. In this case, you're forced to return to the gate you entered through. This was clarified in the FAQ, but it's just a stupid ruling for me because it screws with the strategy of the game. Let's say Investigator A dives into gate 1. While he's in the second area, Investigator B enters the same gate with the idea of returning from gate 2. Investigator A returns to Arkham and seals Gate 1. Investigator B resolves and encounter forcing him to return to Arkham, but the original gate is now sealed. So, is he LiTaS? The FAQ doesn't say, but it's the only logical explanation. As said, it's BS. Return to Arkham through whichever gate you want

Questions day (err, just like yesterday, the day before etc.; you get the point).

1. The terror level is at ten. The relative to the players number of monsters in play dictates whether the AO wakes up or not. Are monsters in the Outskirts taken into account? The example the rulebook gives makes me think that they aren't, but am I correct?

2. In one of the locations cards in the Merchant district, taking place in the Unnamable, an investigator stumbles upon Eric Colt who shares a story. The text states "If you listen, etc...". Do I have the choice of not to listen, thus avoiding the sanity hit?

3. If the answer to the above is affirmative, may I opt not to take actions and just stay dormant in cases where the wording of a card is along the "if you listen, if you roll, etc." lines?

4. Red Sign of Shudde M'ell. It doesn't mention discarding during final combat. May I use it during then to ignore, let's say, Shub's Physical Immunity or are AOs not considered monsters? Something tells me they aren't and the spell does nothing against them.

5. There are cards that dictate to look at an item deck, i.e. to draw the first tome available, but do not instruct me to discard the other cards revealed or shuffle the deck afterwards. Do I put the revealed cards back to the top of the deck in the exact place they were before after taking the card that interests me?

Edited by Serazu

1. Most of the times you'll reach terror 10 is because of too many monsters. When terror pops up due to too many monsters in the Outskirts, Outskirts are emptied. Still, if something else triggers terror 10, the monster limit is removed. This means monsters appear directly on the main board (not in the Outskirts). When the number of monsters in play (thus, not in the Outskirts) is equal to twice the number of investigators, then the AO wakes up.

So: if terror reaches 10 because of monsters, you'll have 0 monsters in the Outskirts

If terror reaches 10 because of another effect, you may have some monsters in the Outskirts

In either case, monsters in the Outskirts don't count towards the number of monsters in play required to awaken the AO (otherwise soloing the game would imply the AO wakes because of 2 monsters in the Outskirts)

2. "If" means a choice is given. If you don't want to listen to Eric Colt, then you don't listen to him and you don't lose the Sanity (and clearly you don't get him as ally)

3. When "if" comes without a "if you don't XXX then do YYY", then, sure, it means you don't have to resolve any other encounter of sort, and nothing happens

4. AOs are not monsters. It would be antithematic using Red Sign of Shudde M'ell against Shudde, wouldn't it?

5. It's generally accepted on different boards the following:

- if you're told to gain the first item of a specific type (weapon, tome, etc) from a deck, you discard cards from top to bottom until you find one; discarded cards stay discarded

- if you're told to gain a specific item from a deck (e.g: Food), then you discard cards from the top of the deck until you find the specific card, and then you reshuffle the whole deck

In either case, monsters in the Outskirts don't count towards the number of monsters in play required to awaken the AO (otherwise soloing the game would imply the AO wakes because of 2 monsters in the Outskirts)

2? Did you mean 4? 2 monsters at the Outskirts and provided that there were 4 monsters at Arkham proper and/or the Sky (the maximum pre-TL 10), would bring the total number to 6, insufficient number for the AO to wake up. The point is moot of course, since it's established that monsters in the Outskirts don't count.

5. It's generally accepted on different boards the following:

- if you're told to gain the first item of a specific type (weapon, tome, etc) from a deck, you discard cards from top to bottom until you find one; discarded cards stay discarded

- if you're told to gain a specific item from a deck (e.g: Food), then you discard cards from the top of the deck until you find the specific card, and then you reshuffle the whole deck

Seems pretty convoluted to me. Why would the two cases be treated differently? I think it would make much more sense just to search for the necessary card, whether being the first tome or a specific item, and then shuffle the deck. Pretty much what happens in all card games when "search" for a card in the deck is warranted.

1. Yup, sorry, it's twice the normal monster limit, not twice the number of investigators. So, 6. Still, when you solo, Outskirts can have up to 7 monsters before popping up, thus, if the Outskirts counted for this reasons, it'd have been quite a loophole: 6 monsters in the Outskirts with Terror 9; get a Mythos raising Terror, and the AO automatically wakes up. Not working

2. Not that convoluted: there are tons of items belonging to a specific type in each of the decks, so, it's usually flipping a few cards if you go for type; on the contrary, if you go for specific items, you can flip a ton of cards. So, in the first case you don't reshuffle, in the second case you do. This becomes vital when you play wth all small cards in: decks become pretty huge. Still, if you don't like it, then don't do it: your enjoyment of the game comes first :)

The Outskirts gets cleared when the TL hits 10.

The cases only seem unnecessarily different until you realize that "first of a type " is still technically a random draw, so it's as close to "normal" as possible. Typically, many such cards fulfill the "type" requirement.

Find "a specific card" means you probably have to look through a good portion of the deck to find it, so you might as well just reshuffle.

The Outskirts gets cleared when the TL hits 10.

Was this clarified, Chris? I mean, are Outskirts cleared even if TL hits 10 due to other effects (vortices, Mythos, etc)?

Yep, it was clarified. I believe it's in the FAQ, but it was answered long before that. The rule is in play so that you no longer have "dud" monsters in the Outskirts that have no function when the TL hits 10.

Here are the items from the FAQ:

If the terror level reaches 10, the town of Arkham is overrun by monsters and the monster limit is completely removed from the game. There is no longer any limit on the number of monsters that can rampage through town.

When the Terror Track reaches 10, return all monsters in the Outskirts to the monster cup.

Once the terror level has reached 10, if it ever increases again (via a Mythos card special ability, for example), instead of moving the terror track marker, add one doom token to the Ancient One’s doom track for each point the terror level should have increased.

Edited by Wolfpack48