Has anyone tried any of these? As I sit on the back deck and watch the male ruby throated humming birds I think I'd like to paint something like that. They have a iridescent green back and their throat goes from black from the side view to bright ruby red from the front. I did one of my daughter's thrift store bikes in a blue/violet interference paint and it was awesome. Has anyone done anything with any of the acrylics available? I would imagine they are intended for canvas work but that's nothing a little thinning can't fix. Dras?
Edited by WGNF911Iridescents and interference paints
Yes. Once.
It was an absolute horror show, attempting to use iridescent reflective paint on some Infinity Models (Exrah, because they were bugs and I wanted Chitin).
The only thing I would even attempt to recommend to people were the Reaper line of Pearlescent Paints... And apply them carefully.
But, in general, they're impossible to Photograph in any meaningful way to even show you what went wrong... Plus, I got rid of them...
...
I had more success utilising some glow-in-the-dark fabric paint... But even then...
The main issue you have with them is the fact that, even as Acrylics... Their Pigment Density and size is absolutely whack... Generally, with an acrylic paint, the better it is, the higher the pigment density is, but the lower the pigment piece size... Clumping is Bad Mojo for miniature projects, which is why with REALLY OLD, or REALLY CHEAP acrylics, you can filter them through an old pair of pantyhose to get the worst of the clumps out to work...
Iridescent and interference paint usually works by having LARGE pigment pieces... because that's what catches the light... It just doesn't translate well to miniature work...
In my expeirence, at least.
If you could find an intereference paint in acrylic, I'd be interested to see it in the small scale - but I'm grossly dubious based on my prior experiences.
Should I be ever so insulted that I didn't warrant a mention?
A lot of the stuff I hear about iridescence, interference paints, and their 'cousin' nail polish is hearsay and that alone tends to make me dubious. I've never used it because of the consistency which is essential for a large number of the effects.
From what I gather, a lot of the effects come from the thick medium which is required for the effect of large-scale particles in a suspension medium. So it will naturally go on in a much thicker coat than an acrylic. Which means that it works well on certain very limited subjects. Dras's example was the single one I was thinking of: chitin. Most notably, GW Tyranid chitin, which has a smooth finish, organic detail, and large surfaces in a gently sloped pattern. As such, the examples of those paints working come almost exclusively from the carnifex kit (and anyone who's worked one of those can tell you that 2-3" unbroken plates are a great medium for anything organic). But with Armada ships there's so many tiny plates that most of the effect will likely be distorted or just smudged because of those mechanical breaks. The best results might come from those organic rebel ships (the AF II feels like it could actually work, at least in selective parts if nothing else, and the Liberty may be a close second). I'd also suspect that there will be no manipulation of it for protection, such as with any typical varnish.
Some potential alternatives is to do like most painters do: fake it. NMM, zenithal highlights, the usual spectrum of weathering, all of it is to create an effect that looks like a good approximation on the subject that it cant work. Airbrushing with some inks and glazes coupled with gloss varnish could give you some very similar effects. But, like NMM, it will only be truly effective at a limited angle. If you want to attempt it, my suggestion would be using a metallic paint with a few different thinned inks and a gloss top coat. Something like a silver paint, with red, purple, blue, and black inks/washes that are thinned and layered over top one after another, light to dark. I've seen some necrons work with that and they're probably as close as you're going to get to a similar part scale (even if the relative scale, thus scale of effect will be different). You could also experiment with the enamel side of things and try their top coats with various thinners for a similar overall effect. But I figure the gloss varnish top coat is going to be the only thing truly similar about the methods.
Long story short: I'm dubious about the paints, but I suppose the effect could be achieved with some effort and experimentation.
Edited by VykesI do think if anyone was going to pull it off, it'd be Vykes here... He's all over me on the paint experience... Certainly in dealing with the Conditions here, that I'm still struggling with.
Thanks Dras, I do try to test methods and limits when I find the time
Not all of them work, the vats of Green are usually working overtime (ignore the Trandoshan screams from yonder verdant pool).
Hmmm, maybe I'll give it a try some time. I should note that I did see some Testors green glitter 'metal fleck' paint that I think Centerpoint used that could work as an iridescent base. I'll check to see if they have any tomorrow when I see if they have any dullcoat back in stock, then thin down some enamel gloss black. But yeah, as for standard methodology: metallic base, inks, gloss/satin varnish is probably going to give the best effects on ships. I just sincerely worry about retaining that definition.
But the common methods all still seem to be airbrush related applications.
I tried Alcladd's Prismatic paints and they are ok but better on larger models like big 40K Eldar wraithknights. Even on a normal space marine figure they don't really benefit from the scale. Lots of tiny panels on Armada ship miniatures wont show off the nice colour transformations that well.
If you want to have a go you will need an airbrush and apply Alclad's gloss black cellulose undercoat.
as vykes already said (**** ninja) ive done some ties with metal fleck paints. They turned out alright but were kind of a pain in the ass as they are not acrylic and therefore i had to use paint thinner and different brushes. Not sure id try these on anything bigger than a squadron
Should I be ever so insulted that I didn't warrant a mention?
Seriously though, I appreciate all the input from all the more experienced painters. I see what you mean about fleck size and panel size on the models. I too was thinking the curvier rebel ships would be a better subject. I've seen what those flecks of metallic stuff do to the texture of a tiny miniature, especially with the cheaper paints.
Do you think a gloss lacquer would enhance or detract from the effect?
as vykes already said (**** ninja) ive done some ties with metal fleck paints. They turned out alright but were kind of a pain in the ass as they are not acrylic and therefore i had to use paint thinner and different brushes. Not sure id try these on anything bigger than a squadron
I used a cheqpo "gun metal" acrylic on the black VSD I painted as a wash. It gave an interesting sheen to the whole model but it was a running gun battle trying to keep the flecks evenly distributed across the model. Essentially, I was stirring my wash with one hand to keep flecks suspended while applying with the other hand to the model … I might be exaggerating but only slightly.
now the GW paints like leadbelcher and necron compound i have used, and they work pretty well, but at least for me, mixing those paints with other colors never works out.
I have a done a ton of pearlescent effects in the past (in my GW days I preferred them catching actual light to the GW style "gem drop" fade painting style) and what's worked best for me is dry brushing a very bright silver (nearly white- like GW Mithril) and then glazing with glossy acrylic ink topped with a final coat of future. While it doesn't photograph as nice, it really catches ambient light in a way that makes them visually quite distinct and almost luminescent. Works wonders if the rest of your miniature is done in more subdued and darker colors as well. I had a Dark Angels GW space marine force that was super-dark green, very matte finished and when I did the eyes like this people would comment that it looked as if they were glowing. I do my Armada engines this way rather than doing OSL because I'm lazy
- I'll see if I can try to take a picture at some point, but again, it's hard to capture on a camera phone.
http://www.specialistpaints.com/products/passion-paint
I have used these before on gaming models and it works pretty well without obscuring details.
I've had the custom paints recommended to me before, but until a few weeks ago, I never had the airbrush to try - and they were far too expensive to order to just try brush-on...
Maybe when Wave 5 hits and I have a bunch more squadrons to paint.... (I'm going to be painting so many Ghosts, I forsee it....).. I'll hae the money to burn and try.
http://www.specialistpaints.com/products/passion-paint
I have used these before on gaming models and it works pretty well without obscuring details.
I have some experience using things like this in larger applications (cars/boats/bikes) using an air gun. Have you used this with a brush, is that possible? I'm thinking it would be, after all, it's liquid, but I wonder if the brush would cause it to not lay down correctly.
I've used the GW ledbelcher and I'm very happy with it. You can check out some of my work with it on my paint thread, My go at Tiny Spaceships. I'll have to experiment with some of those techniques mentioned for a shinier engine glow. The ledbelcher really does a good job catching light. It's good with or without a wash and I haven't seen any need to use a dry brush with it.
Help me to understand glazes please. I have no experience with these. It seems like they are a topcoat with much less pigment than a base or layer and are used to add a "hint" of a color. Am I correct?
http://www.specialistpaints.com/products/passion-paint
I have used these before on gaming models and it works pretty well without obscuring details.
I have some experience using things like this in larger applications (cars/boats/bikes) using an air gun. Have you used this with a brush, is that possible? I'm thinking it would be, after all, it's liquid, but I wonder if the brush would cause it to not lay down correctly.
I've only used them from spray cans, so can't say anything about brushing, but I imagine that a smooth application would be essential for the iridescent effect to work.
I use the "cheap craft store" metallic/iridescent blue and orange acrylic, for engine flare.
The orange is too thin on pigment to be used as anything bit a glaze over orange and yellow, but the blue is my absolute go to. Fine pigment, thick consistency & dry brushes beautifully for reflected engine glare.
Folk Art
651 Metallic blue topaz.
http://www.specialistpaints.com/products/passion-paint
I have used these before on gaming models and it works pretty well without obscuring details.
I have some experience using things like this in larger applications (cars/boats/bikes) using an air gun. Have you used this with a brush, is that possible? I'm thinking it would be, after all, it's liquid, but I wonder if the brush would cause it to not lay down correctly.
I've used the GW ledbelcher and I'm very happy with it. You can check out some of my work with it on my paint thread, My go at Tiny Spaceships. I'll have to experiment with some of those techniques mentioned for a shinier engine glow. The ledbelcher really does a good job catching light. It's good with or without a wash and I haven't seen any need to use a dry brush with it.
Help me to understand glazes please. I have no experience with these. It seems like they are a topcoat with much less pigment than a base or layer and are used to add a "hint" of a color. Am I correct?
Correct! I like to use Dahler Rowney acrylic inks + golden acrylic medium + future floor polish for my glazes- mixing your inks (paints will do- just use less of it) with medium and future reduces the pigment density to transparency, but it's still thick enough to behave well off of your brush. It also keeps the pigments evenly distributed as it dries so it doesn't end up splotchy, like when you over-dilute a paint with water.
With metallic paint, you really do want to be drybrushing as it encourages the reflective pigments to collect in high density on the surface- this is why bad metallic applications look like glitter accessories when dry, but good metallics look, well, metallic!
I know some schools of mini painting teach "dry brush bad, wet blend good!" but you pretty much always want to be drybrushing metallics for the aforementioned reason. Though I reaaaallly dislike the company overall and generally prefer Vallejo paints, GW's metallics are the top of the line- really worth getting them even if you're into military modeling as they're so good it's hard to tell them apart from bare metal foil when applied right, IMO.
For metalics I swear by Alclad, it is terrific paint. However, you need an airbrush and you need to prime in gloss black.
They also do a HOLOMATIC SPECTRAL CHROME PRISMATIC.
And range of colours used in Car Modelling.
I've dabbled with Vallejo Metallic Medium, you either mix it with your top color or paint it over the base color. The best luck I've had has been with Miniature Ghost Tints and Golden Fluid High Flow Acrylics Transparent set. Both can be applied with an airbrush or a paint brush and both function as a candy or a filter. Tinting the base color. I know Golden make interference paints and they're generally found in store selling artist paints. Locally at A.C. Moore and smaller assortment at Michaels.
Also, OT but where do you live that you get to watch hummingbirds? I'm envious.
Also, OT but where do you live that you get to watch hummingbirds? I'm envious.
Got to be further south than NY, I think they started migrating south in the last week or two.
http://www.specialistpaints.com/products/passion-paint
I have used these before on gaming models and it works pretty well without obscuring details.
Help me to understand glazes please. I have no experience with these. It seems like they are a topcoat with much less pigment than a base or layer and are used to add a "hint" of a color. Am I correct?
A glaze if a very thin layer of ink or paint that is so thin it is translucent (see through) and it just changes the previous layers by a small amount.
If the paint job is too bright a darker colour will tone things down, applying a yellow over a green and red will tone things down just a little.
Often with small scale models if you have dry brushed you may end up with a hard edge between the different coats and colours of paint. A glaze in this instance can help soften those edges and make the shadows look more natural.
Unlike an ink shading you just want to apply a thin even layer to where you want it. If you need to many thin layers will always work better than one thick layer.
I played with some glaze and metallic medium tonight running some experiments.
https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/221355-my-go-at-tiny-spaceships/page-3#entry2414875
I'd appreciate feedback and thanks for everything you've given so far.
I think engine 1 is too much metallic. 3 & 4 are ok but 2 seems to me to have turned out the best.
Also, OT but where do you live that you get to watch hummingbirds? I'm envious.
SE USA, northern Alabama specifically. However, when I lived in Washington state, we'd get them way up there also. Different breed of course. The male ruby throats have an interference effect on their throats. From the side, they appear jet black (one of the blackest blacks you'll see) but when they face you, it becomes a brilliant, shiny ruby red. Their backs (male and female) are an iridescent green with several different colors glimmering in the light. Truly a work of God.
This is the closest we get - European starlings. They're dark brown/black, until the light catches them
