I'm almost certain the problem here is that I'm being blind, and not seeing the rules when they stare me in the face. I'm hoping one of you can help me with this.

Okay, so! In Core it talks about gaining Insanity and Corruption points, the consequences of letting them get too high, and stuff like that. It also gives mechanics for removing Insanity points by spending xp. But nothing for removing Corruption points.

Rites of Battle has Mind Cleansing, which can remove Corruption for Requisition, but can remove memories (which knowing my GM, he'll either get rid of something crucial , or use it to dock xp, since we lost 'experiences')

But when you get to First Founding, the Pain Glove wargear for Imperial Fists states:

When the player spends experience points to buy off Insanity or Corruption (see Deathwatch page 282) he will lose an additional 1d5 Insanity Points and 1 Corruption Point with the aid of the Pain Glove.

So I open Core to 282, and turns out that's where the removing Insanity stuff is, but no mention of removing Corruption that I can see.

So, am I being blind, do the rules exist somewhere? Or is First Founding in error, and the Pain Glove is only good for removing Insanity points?

Any help would be appreciated.

@ RecklessPrudence ...

1. You are not being blind, you are just mis-interpreting it; that and like almost all WH40K materiel, it lacks clarity.

Corruption, for the most part across the FFGames' WH40K RPG series, is meant to be irreversible.

However, for First Founding 's Pain Glove Chapter-specific Wargear, the -1d5 Insanity Points and -1 Corruption is meant to be an added bonus to removing Insanity Points.

So when the Imperial Fist, with Pain Glove Wargear, pays the 100 XP cost to remove -1 Insanity Point (pg. 282, DW Core Rulebook), the Pain Glove provides additional removals, for a total of:

- a. -1 Insanity Point (base 100 XP cost)

- b. -1d5 Insanity Points (bonus removal, Pain Glove)

- c. -1 Corruption Point (bonus removal, Pain Glove)

Hope this clarifies use of the Pain Glove.

2. Mind-Cleansing, on the other hand, I tend to be more harsh upon. If the Player undergoes Mind Cleansing, it does indeed remove Insanity (&/or Corruption). However, it also removes any XP progression too, as it is literally wiped away from the Mind Cleansing.

For example: An Imperial Fist, Mission-starting at 26,000 XP (Rank 4), Insanity 55, and Corruption 32.

After completing the Chaos-themed Adventure with daemons and Grey Knights, he gains +2700 XP, +7 Insanity, and +9 Corruption. Not wanting to suffer Primarch's Curse Level 2, as well as submitting to the Grey Knights' standard policy of "Wipe or Die", the Imperial Fist submits to Mind Cleansing.

This negates the Insanity and Corruption, but it also negates the XP gained for the Adventure.

Harsh and heavy-handed? Yes. But that is the consequence of having your brain bleached, you lose it all.

Well then that part of First Founding is not very well worded, because with the "spend xp to buy off Insanity or Corruption" it seems to strongly imply that you can spend xp to buy off Corruption independently of the Pain Glove.

Dammit. So only Imperial Fists can get rid of Corruption without Mind Wiping, huh? That's annoying.

I have played through Dark Heresy (1st Ed.) and Rogue Trader, on both sides of the play-line (Player / Game Master); likewise, I am gearing up towards running a Deathwatch campaign (thus have read through the book series). I cannot speak for Black Crusade or Only War, as neither interested me.

Thus far, I have not encountered any regular method for removing Corruption. There are exceptions, of course, but no regular methods.

If you want a House Rule mechanic, this is what I have used:

- a. Corruption can be "bought off" with XP, like Insanity, at 100 XP per -1 Corruption Point.

- b. Corruption cannot be bought off below their current Degree of Corruption (see Corruption Track tables from Dark Heresy &/or Rogue Trader). So for example: if a PC is at "Rank 3" Debased (61-90), he cannot reduce his Corruption below 61.

- c. Malignancies may or may not be removed, depending upon the particulars. Mutations are not removed unless extreme methods are used. For example: a tentacle arm may be replaced by a cyber-arm.

- d. Buying off both Corruption and Insanity is an extremely time- and effort-consuming process for the Character, no matter how many or how few he is removing. A Character may remove both Insanity and Corruption at the same time, but they may do nothing else. So this means for periods between Adventures, they may not spend XP to progress in Ranks, or spend downtime to acquire or create things, or gain any other benefits. They may only spend their downtime cleansing themselves of Corruption &/or Insanity.

i've always figured there was something strange about the imperial fists. Like they're the sort of guys who seek out tall, strong women who wear leather and carry whips.

''You've been a baaad marine, haven't you, Eldon?''

''Yes, mistress Daria.''

''And where do baaad marines belong?''

''On the rack, mistress Daria.''

Thus far, I have not encountered any regular method for removing Corruption. There are exceptions, of course, but no regular methods.

DH1 Ascension, p. 12.

i've always figured there was something strange about the imperial fists. Like they're the sort of guys who seek out tall, strong women who wear leather and carry whips.

''You've been a baaad marine, haven't you, Eldon?''

''Yes, mistress Daria.''

''And where do baaad marines belong?''

''On the rack, mistress Daria.''

Actually... I've got a bit of a theory about that. If I can quote myself from an entirely different forum (one with somewhat more... lax profanity rules), after a close friend (my GM, actually) said something that put me on this train of thought:

The thing is, I've been thinking about what I know about Dorn and reading some sources I perhaps didn't pay as much attention to when I first read them as I should, and... Y'know what? I think my friend is potentially right. Dorn might be autistic. My friend's only experience with it is my brother and I, but in that he's seen it from the outside, while I've been living it from the inside. Let's go through some of Rogal's character traits and compare them to some common autistic symptoms (in a massively simplified and almost entirely wrong version), shall we?

Bad, no, horrible at lying, not only actually doing it, but also knowing when it is appropriate to, to spare someone's feeling? A big CHECK.

Blunt and to-the-point in speech mannerisms, while prone to speaking REALLY in-depth about things that interest him? CHECK.

Overdeveloped sense of responsibility and guilt (not actually an Autistic trait per se , as far as I'm aware, but something that often comes with it - it might be, though, I haven't learned as much as I perhaps should have about my condition, for fear I'll start seeing every aspect of my personality in it, which leads to existential questions I don't want to think about)? CHECK. Witness his behaviour during and after the Heresy, where he blamed himself for not fortifying Terra better - it was only almost fortified enough to withstand the the elite of half the military forces of the galaxy-spanning state, not good enough!

Cares about people, just bad at interacting with them? CHECK. Along with the Salamanders, Ultramarines, and Space Wolves, the Imperial Fists are the big 'care about puny humans' chapter, and that goes back all the way to the Crusade, when Dorn had the same traits. They're just... not always good at showing it, or interacting with them, or taking into account they are space marines and the people with them are not.

Overobsessive about one thing that interests him? CHECK. Seriously, CHECK.

Easily irked by people who are perfectly nice, but see the world differently than he does? CHECK.

Hurts people with his speech without meaning to, then regrets it forever? CHECK.

There's probably others, but the next one is the most important.

The big one? The one that no other Primarch, nor his sons, did? That sets Dorn and the Fists (good band name... as long as you're willing to accept a certain level of innuendo) apart from all their fellows - except for the fallen Emperor's Children, who do something similar for their own reasons? The Pain Glove. Now, thinking of that, and how it brings clarity of thought to the one doing it, and forgetting everything you think you know about it being some sort of BDSM-esque act, go check out this . Stimming , one of the most quintessentially autistic traits, that does occur in non-autistics, but is so prevalent in autistics that the people who do it without being autistic get labeled as having autistic traits because it is an Autistic Trait, capital letters. All the other things I've listed have other explanations that fit as well or better (although I'd wager there's **** few that fit them all together as a whole as well as Autism), but stimming is the big one. Some autistics are hyposensitive - they stim. Others are the exact opposite, hyper sensitive - and they stim. It is a rare autistic person indeed who does not stim in some fashion. Some are lucky enough to find a way that does not physically harm them and is not looked upon negatively by the vast majority of humanity, even if it's not as effective as the ones they can't use for fear of hurting themselves, or can't use because it marks them as a freak. Rogal and his sons have the Pain Glove, which brings them clarity. I have my own methods and unconscious habits, but the only one I can use in public without odd looks or doing minor injuries to myself and that works worth a **** is toying with various ring I wear and cycle through, the best of which might as well be designed for this purpose.

I think when GW was differentiating the Primarchs and their Legions waybackwhen, somebody based Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fists on this... 'odd' friend they had. Probably the guy didn't know his friend was autistic - hell, given the timeframe his friend may not have known, diagnosis rates were **** in the 70s and early 80s, and for older kids and adults for a long time after that - that's how I wasn't diagnosed until my teens, after all - but I'm pretty **** sure that, knowingly or otherwise, the VIIth Legion and their Primarch were based on an autistic person.

...

What do you guys think?

I thought it explained quite a bit.

Thus far, I have not encountered any regular method for removing Corruption. There are exceptions, of course, but no regular methods.

DH1 Ascension, p. 12.

Thankyouthankyou thankyou! I'll show the reference to my GM next session, and we can look it up in his books!

Thankyouthankyou thankyou! I'll show the reference to my GM next session, and we can look it up in his books!

In short, you can remove corruption by spending XP (100/50 xp per point), by sacrificing characteristics (2 point of characteristics remove 1d10 Ins/Corr) or by trading Corruption for Insanity (or vice versa).

I wonder what dorn was like on his homeworld before he became a space marine leader? That would say a lot about him...