Good stuff above.
I think I'll go with APT and upgrade my Torpedoes to Scouts with the extra points.
Also, I mentioned Dodonna in my first post.
M'Lady Liberty said that she only dances with Madine.
Expanded Launchers vs. APTs
Good stuff above.
I think I'll go with APT and upgrade my Torpedoes to Scouts with the extra points.
Also, I mentioned Dodonna in my first post.
M'Lady Liberty said that she only dances with Madine.
Dodonna cuts quite the rug. You should talk to him. Ask Lyr about his oppressive dance moves.
Lets not forget the new officer and the speculation of what he does.... Contain on non default crits. That wild put a series and needed damper on the undercosted apt
Good stuff above.
I think I'll go with APT and upgrade my Torpedoes to Scouts with the extra points.
Also, I mentioned Dodonna in my first post.
M'Lady Liberty said that she only dances with Madine.
Dodonna cuts quite the rug. You should talk to him. Ask Lyr about his oppressive dance moves.
Dodonna does pack a punch, but still she says she likes the excitement of a man who can turn circles and hit her from unexpected places...
Lets not forget the new officer and the speculation of what he does.... Contain on non default crits. That wild put a series and needed damper on the undercosted apt
And every other crit effect, most of which never see use as it is.
I don't know, I'm kind of ambivalent about it frankly. I hope it's tailored to the black crits, because those are the only ones that I really see get used. It's not like Ion Canon Batteries really needs to be toned down.
Right... So 1.5 expected damage for apt versus 2.5 expected for el... now before wave 4, there didn't really exist a repeatable consistent way to interact with apt... if your opponent triggers it there was nothing you could do, unless lando... but now there are targeting scramblers... and I will contend that not only is it going to be very popular, it is perhaps the best reason to take an interdictor... and if that becomes the meta, the 1.5 expected damage from apt should diminish substantially... In which case, el may become more on par with apt, or perhaps stronger altogether... but I dunno, face up crits to the hull are very good, especially with dodonna, and it can be hard to quantify their value... In which case perhaps apt is what you should take, dam the meta, and Pray you don't run into scramblers
You forgot the big M and M.
APT is an extra .8 - 1.0 damage per arc with Ordinance Experts.
Incorrect. APT does 1 damage if you roll a crit. Therefore, the expected damage of APT is entirely dependent on your chance to roll a crit. The formula would be p*1 where p equals your probability to roll a crit.
Using the OP's MC30 as an example, there are 3 black die on the sides and 2 black on the front.
The Expected Damage of APT on a Side Arc shot with Ordinance Experts would be (3 Choose 1)*(.25^1 *.75^2) + .25 * (3 Choose 1) * (.25^1 *.75^2) = .5273 Damage
The Expected Damage of APT on a Front Arc shot with Ordinance Experts would be (2 choose 1)*(.25^1*.75^1) + .25* (2 choose 1)*(.25^1*.75^1) = .3515 Damage
Therefore, for a double arc'ed shot on a MC30, APT will add .8788 Damage and the chance to get crit effects through shields. Since the 2.5 Damage of EL is 184% larger than .8788 and the 12 point cost of EL is only 140% larger than 5 point cost of APT, Expanded Launchers are actually undercosted.
Biggs, I think you just got frekkin pwned. Like...circa 2005 pwned.
Watch out, Maths, there's a new sheriff in town and he's Latin.*
*Italy/Roman empire Latin, not South-central America latin.
The math is off. 3 black dice with a reroll will roll 1 critical far more than 52% of the time. I think his numbers are without the oe rather than with.
Personally I like ACMs, I tend to use my MC30s and glads for big game hunting. The big ships with two redirect tokens just hate getting double or trip tapped by an ACM carrying mare. Intel officer cover the brace and ACM counters the redirects.
APTs are better against smaller targets and rebels in general. They are also mad at scoring points in a mission that will remain nameless, being able to harvest 4 mission tokens a round.
APT is an extra .8 - 1.0 damage per arc with Ordinance Experts.
Incorrect. APT does 1 damage if you roll a crit. Therefore, the expected damage of APT is entirely dependent on your chance to roll a crit. The formula would be p*1 where p equals your probability to roll a crit.
Using the OP's MC30 as an example, there are 3 black die on the sides and 2 black on the front.
The Expected Damage of APT on a Side Arc shot with Ordinance Experts would be (3 Choose 1)*(.25^1 *.75^2) + .25 * (3 Choose 1) * (.25^1 *.75^2) = .5273 Damage
The Expected Damage of APT on a Front Arc shot with Ordinance Experts would be (2 choose 1)*(.25^1*.75^1) + .25* (2 choose 1)*(.25^1*.75^1) = .3515 Damage
Therefore, for a double arc'ed shot on a MC30, APT will add .8788 Damage and the chance to get crit effects through shields. Since the 2.5 Damage of EL is 184% larger than .8788 and the 12 point cost of EL is only 140% larger than 5 point cost of APT, Expanded Launchers are actually undercosted.
Biggs, I think you just got frekkin pwned. Like...circa 2005 pwned.
Watch out, Maths, there's a new sheriff in town and he's Latin.*
*Italy/Roman empire Latin, not South-central America latin.
The math is off. 3 black dice with a reroll will roll 1 critical far more than 52% of the time. I think his numbers are without the oe rather than with.
Nah, without the OE the 3 blacks crit 58% of the time; 2 crit 44%. I'm not sure what bit of combinatorics he's confusing with his stats, but it's not that.
I totally did make a mistake. I forgot to add in the probabilities of rolling 2 or 3 crits. Instead, I just calculated the chance of getting exactly one crit. Thanks
So what I am taking away from this is that the numbers I vaguely remember calculating back in the day for Gladiators are more or less correct.
I totally did make a mistake. I forgot to add in the probabilities of rolling 2 or 3 crits. Instead, I just calculated the chance of getting exactly one crit. Thanks
You have hereby been fired as High Sheriff of the Maths, the title has returned to Biggs.
Edited by RocmistroI totally did make a mistake. I forgot to add in the probabilities of rolling 2 or 3 crits. Instead, I just calculated the chance of getting exactly one crit. Thanks
So 1-(.75^3)^2= 82% for a side arc
And then 1-(.75^2)^2= 68% for a front arc
Which makes for an additional 1.5 damage with a double arc for 9 points (5+4)
Versus an additional 2.5 damage for 17 points (13+4)
This is 6 points per damage (9/1.5) compared to 6.8 points per damage (17/2.5). Actually not a big discrepancy, until factoring in the fact that APTs is also critical damage straight to the hull that can't be contained.
Edited by Parkdaddyplayed another game, and ya, targeting scramblers basically takes your apt card, rips it up, and throws it in your face
played another game, and ya, targeting scramblers basically takes your apt card, rips it up, and throws it in your face
This. If target scramblers become popular expanded launchers are suddenly going to become my go to upgrade for my Mc30s, goodbye apt, acm and ord experts...
played another game, and ya, targeting scramblers basically takes your apt card, rips it up, and throws it in your face
This. If target scramblers become popular expanded launchers are suddenly going to become my go to upgrade for my Mc30s, goodbye apt, acm and ord experts...
(bolding emphasis mine)
Whoa whoa whoa let's not do anything we might regret here
(bolding emphasis mine)played another game, and ya, targeting scramblers basically takes your apt card, rips it up, and throws it in your face
This. If target scramblers become popular expanded launchers are suddenly going to become my go to upgrade for my Mc30s, goodbye apt, acm and ord experts...
Whoa whoa whoa let's not do anything we might regret here
Why spend 4 points and a slot with many good choices in order to roll more hit/crits that are just going to get scrambled anyways?
(bolding emphasis mine)played another game, and ya, targeting scramblers basically takes your apt card, rips it up, and throws it in your face
This. If target scramblers become popular expanded launchers are suddenly going to become my go to upgrade for my Mc30s, goodbye apt, acm and ord experts...
Whoa whoa whoa let's not do anything we might regret here
Why spend 4 points and a slot with many good choices in order to roll more hit/crits that are just going to get scrambled anyways?
Because its still good. It still forces your opponent to react to it, and often black dice touting ships are redundant. But more importantly, you aren't going to face interdictors in every list.
Hell, I'll take 'em if you don't want 'em....
Come Sato, I'm lookin' at putting Ordnance Experts on Freakin' AFMK-IIs...
Edited by DrasnightaHell, I'll take 'em if you don't want 'em....
Come Sato, I'm lookin' at putting Ordnance Experts on Freakin' AFMK-IIs...
Where at long range they can do work and not get scrambled
Where at long range they can do work and not get scrambled
Hell, I'll take 'em if you don't want 'em....
Come Sato, I'm lookin' at putting Ordnance Experts on Freakin' AFMK-IIs...
Where at long range they can do work and not get scrambled
Yup.
The MC30 is dead.
Long live the MC30.
Where at long range they can do work and not get scrambled
If only Salvation could take it....
APT is an extra .8 - 1.0 damage per arc with Ordinance Experts.
Incorrect. APT does 1 damage if you roll a crit. Therefore, the expected damage of APT is entirely dependent on your chance to roll a crit. The formula would be p*1 where p equals your probability to roll a crit.
Using the OP's MC30 as an example, there are 3 black die on the sides and 2 black on the front.
The Expected Damage of APT on a Side Arc shot with Ordinance Experts would be (3 Choose 1)*(.25^1 *.75^2) + .25 * (3 Choose 1) * (.25^1 *.75^2) = .5273 Damage
The Expected Damage of APT on a Front Arc shot with Ordinance Experts would be (2 choose 1)*(.25^1*.75^1) + .25* (2 choose 1)*(.25^1*.75^1) = .3515 Damage
Therefore, for a double arc'ed shot on a MC30, APT will add .8788 Damage and the chance to get crit effects through shields. Since the 2.5 Damage of EL is 184% larger than .8788 and the 12 point cost of EL is only 140% larger than 5 point cost of APT, Expanded Launchers are actually undercosted.
Biggs, I think you just got frekkin pwned. Like...circa 2005 pwned.
Watch out, Maths, there's a new sheriff in town and he's Latin.*
*Italy/Roman empire Latin, not South-central America latin.
That math is wrong. It is considerably easier to calculate odds of not rolling a crit and subtract from one.
75% chance of no crit. 3 dice, each of which can be rerolled if needed. So no difference between that and rolling 6 dice once IF WE CONSIDER NOTHING ELSE. 1-.75^6. So 82.2% chance of crit.
For 2 black dice, 1-.75^4=68%
So APT+OE averages closer to 1.5 damage added. 9 points for 1.5 compared to 17 for 2.5
With APT it's not about the amount of damage, it's about getting those damage card in before the shields are down. The odds should be the number of "crippling face up cards there are in the damage deck.
All these numbers show that Biggs was right, and accurate enough...
Perfection is not necessary.