I'm really excited about this announcement but at the same time I find it weird from FFG. They did quite a nice job with the Dust franchise back in the days and with other franchise but they it seemed like they left the genre out of their collection.

But with X-Wing and Armada we know they can do awesome miniatures games with great gameplay. I'd have love that they took the same prepainted path as they did with their SW franchise.

Anyways, game look awesome, gameplay seem to be quite nice too (move templates, minis trays that interlock, action dials) so I keep an open and positive mind on this title.

My prediction, since it's FFG:

- You'll need 2 core sets to really enjoy the game at release. But it's not a big deal, find a friend that want the faction you don't want and each buy a core box

- Regiment and "Heroes/Single" releases

- Gameplay/Narrative expansions would be great

- 2D terrain packs

I'd also like to see some kind of Campaign and leveling system for Heroes/Warlords/Uniques...some kind of narrative gameplay with "quests" or something like that.

Enough rambling, i'm buying this on release day!

These miniatures will not be prepainted.

These miniatures will not be prepainted.

I kmow I just said i'd have love if they do.

These miniatures will not be prepainted.

I kmow I just said i'd have love if they do.

Oh then i misread what you wrote, my bad.

I'm the opposite of excited about this announcement, it's rather disappointing that "The Big One" for FFG at Gencon is a unpainted war miniatures game based on their rather uninspiring fantasy world. The whole reason FFG's has held up so well over the last few years is there pre-painted miniature games and fantastic board and card games. The unpainted war miniatures hobby is an entirely different audience and really market all together. I wish them the best but I think the large majority of FFG fans are gamers, not mini paint hobbyist, I'm not sure there is going to be a sufficient audience for this game. I also don't think it will be much of a draw for Warhammer Fantasy players. More importantly managing an unpainted miniatures war game/franchise is an expensive en-devour and will likely pull resources from FFG I think they could have put to much better use.

@BigKahuna

I did the whole hardcore tabletop stuff (I never enjoyed painting)... then I switched to X-Wing and Armada.

Yeah, I'm equally nervous/excited.

I have faith in FFG and the simplicity of their gameplay mechanics. I think if they release figures with upgrade cards for any side (as opposed to in faction) like XWing, etc... it's gonna be a hard sell (e.g., nobody wants ranks of troops they won't use).

I'm the opposite of excited about this announcement, it's rather disappointing that "The Big One" for FFG at Gencon is a unpainted war miniatures game based on their rather uninspiring fantasy world. The whole reason FFG's has held up so well over the last few years is there pre-painted miniature games and fantastic board and card games. The unpainted war miniatures hobby is an entirely different audience and really market all together. I wish them the best but I think the large majority of FFG fans are gamers, not mini paint hobbyist, I'm not sure there is going to be a sufficient audience for this game. I also don't think it will be much of a draw for Warhammer Fantasy players. More importantly managing an unpainted miniatures war game/franchise is an expensive en-devour and will likely pull resources from FFG I think they could have put to much better use.

Why shouldn't this draw WHF palyers? I played WHF and i'm more excited about this one then AoS, of course there are other Fantasy miniature wargames out there (Kings of War for example) but i still will give this one a try because it looks nice and seems to have good ideas.

And about the painting, yes it's sad that the miniatures are unpainted but i think it's easier to paint and get a good look on the X-Wings ships than on those minaitures, if i see a fluttering cape i would want to see at least 3 colours on it (base colour, a higlight and a shadow colour) and as far as i know from looking at my X-Wing ships they got a a base colour and a shade and that's about it.

You don't have to paint if you don't want to. Imperial Assault already exists with unpainted figures and not everyone paints those, nor is there a culture that failing to paint your minis is bad in any way - simply a choice by each player.

Painted figs fight better. :-)

I thoroughly enjoy painting my armies and volunteer my time and supplies at Team Covenant to help others paint their own minis. That said, I'll never look askance at anyone who plays with unpainted minis. The game is meant to be fun. If you like painting good if not good as well.

#JustPlay

J--

I'm the opposite of excited about this announcement, it's rather disappointing that "The Big One" for FFG at Gencon is a unpainted war miniatures game based on their rather uninspiring fantasy world. The whole reason FFG's has held up so well over the last few years is there pre-painted miniature games and fantastic board and card games. The unpainted war miniatures hobby is an entirely different audience and really market all together. I wish them the best but I think the large majority of FFG fans are gamers, not mini paint hobbyist, I'm not sure there is going to be a sufficient audience for this game. I also don't think it will be much of a draw for Warhammer Fantasy players. More importantly managing an unpainted miniatures war game/franchise is an expensive en-devour and will likely pull resources from FFG I think they could have put to much better use.

Why shouldn't this draw WHF palyers? I played WHF and i'm more excited about this one then AoS, of course there are other Fantasy miniature wargames out there (Kings of War for example) but i still will give this one a try because it looks nice and seems to have good ideas.

And about the painting, yes it's sad that the miniatures are unpainted but i think it's easier to paint and get a good look on the X-Wings ships than on those minaitures, if i see a fluttering cape i would want to see at least 3 colours on it (base colour, a higlight and a shadow colour) and as far as i know from looking at my X-Wing ships they got a a base colour and a shade and that's about it.

All I'm saying is that the unpainted miniatures war game market has been shrinking for the better part of a decade and the only resurgence in miniature gaming has come as a result of FFG's efforts by creating lines like their pre-painted Star Wars games. Games Workshop has been making cut backs for a long time, even as of this writing they are down to 3 core products from the dozens they once sold simultaneously this is amidst the biggest boom in the hobby game market in the history of the planet stretching into a billion dollar industry in 2015. Ten years ago Games Workshop had the biggest booths at Gencon by a wide margin, in 2016 they shared a small booth and made virtually no announcements and note that Warhammer is by a wide margin the most successful miniatures game on the market even today.

I'm certain FFG is counting on their image and success with other games to pull this through and to an extent I think they will probably capture an initial audience but I think they overestimate how many people are actually still in the hobby and the quality of their Fantasy franchise. Just because a couple of board games were successful using that franchise, doesn't mean it has the shtick to base a miniatures game on it. The success of those board games has virtually nothing to do with the fantasy setting and everything to do with the fact that these games tap into that old school D&D role-playing feel (aka characters, dice, fighting monsters). I personally think a miniatures war game is going need a lot more than that to make it successful. Imperial Assault, X-Wing and Armada are all successful because people already love star wars, had they used the exact same system but used generic science fiction and you would likely have never heard of it.

I'm rooting for them, I wish them the best of luck and hope it works out, but if I was to gamble on whether or not it's going to be a successful, I think I would bet against them because I just don't see this working out.

I'm not quite sure about the wargaming hobby shrinking, sure GW seems to lose players, part of it is the GW cost and the GW rules, other part might be minature boardgames and things like X-Wing but i would say that today there are many more miniature wargames out there then at the time of GWs heyday and they are losing players to them. Look at Kickstarter you see so many new minature wargames, of course some of them won't live very long but still we have more miniature wargames then before and to be honest it always has been a niche market but companies such as Privateer Press, Corvus Belli, Freebooter Miniatures, Wyrd, Warlord Games, Spartan Games, Hawk Wargames and Battlefront seem to do quite well. And Games Workshop will also be with us for many more years and i think shifts in a market a normal, reaktime stratgie games had a hight with Command and Conquer/Starcraft/Warcarft, which was followed be nearly absence of the genre to the market and today the are having a small comeback so i think miniature wargaming will not die out any soon.

As long as your rules, support (Errata/Faq but also painting tutorials, terrain building tutorials and extra stuff for playing like scenarios and such) and miniatures are good and you can promote your game to players you have a good chance of succeding and that's why i think this one can make money.

Will it be in the top 5 of miniature wargmes? Probably not but it doesn't have to as long as it has it's fans and generates money.

wargaminng hobby is booming right now. only GW share of market shrinks thank to outrageous prices and god awful rules bloat.

IF FFG can deliver rock solid gameplay then tournament players will buy this

sorry for bad eng..

agree with BigKahuna, prepainted is why they've done so well over the last few years.

But then, as pointed out IA isn't pre-painted.

Still, got to feel that the 'open the box and play with it' mentality is a good chunk of what FFG have done well recently.

We shall see. I have little doubt the base mechanics will be both solid and fun.

Pre-painted minis are nice.

I think claiming that the surge of miniature game interest is due solely to the pre-painting is a bit off, though.

The surge in popularity, IMHO, has more to do with the simple-but-nuanced approach to rules, pre-measured distances, and general lowered bar of entry that these games have, not the fact that the pieces come painted.

It's never been painting minis that has kept people away from wargaming, it's been the fact that you need a serious background in wargaming or an intensive course of study to break the crust on the vast majority of wargames.

I say this as someone who spends his time working at an FLGS selling people on new games. It's not the pre-painted minis that sells the box sets, its how easy the game is to get into, something that FFG excels at.

Pre-painted minis are nice.

I think claiming that the surge of miniature game interest is due solely to the pre-painting is a bit off, though.

The surge in popularity, IMHO, has more to do with the simple-but-nuanced approach to rules, pre-measured distances, and general lowered bar of entry that these games have, not the fact that the pieces come painted.

It's never been painting minis that has kept people away from wargaming, it's been the fact that you need a serious background in wargaming or an intensive course of study to break the crust on the vast majority of wargames.

I say this as someone who spends his time working at an FLGS selling people on new games. It's not the pre-painted minis that sells the box sets, its how easy the game is to get into, something that FFG excels at.

I agree with this. I've been looking to expand beyond X-Wing for miniature games (especially with what I feel are lackluster waves incoming). This game has peaked my interest, and I've never done any painting, but will give it a go. I've wanted to get into wargaming, but with how long some of them have been around, and can be a little intimidating. The next biggest games to X-Wing at my FLGS is Warhammer and Flames of War, and just looking at the abundance of stuff hanging on the walls that you can buy for those games actually keeps me from wanting to getinto those. and I see this game as being able to get in on the ground floor of something that has potential to grow, and we already know will have organized play as well.

Pre-painted minis are nice.

I think claiming that the surge of miniature game interest is due solely to the pre-painting is a bit off, though.

The surge in popularity, IMHO, has more to do with the simple-but-nuanced approach to rules, pre-measured distances, and general lowered bar of entry that these games have, not the fact that the pieces come painted.

It's never been painting minis that has kept people away from wargaming, it's been the fact that you need a serious background in wargaming or an intensive course of study to break the crust on the vast majority of wargames.

I say this as someone who spends his time working at an FLGS selling people on new games. It's not the pre-painted minis that sells the box sets, its how easy the game is to get into, something that FFG excels at.

I agree with this. I've been looking to expand beyond X-Wing for miniature games (especially with what I feel are lackluster waves incoming). This game has peaked my interest, and I've never done any painting, but will give it a go. I've wanted to get into wargaming, but with how long some of them have been around, and can be a little intimidating. The next biggest games to X-Wing at my FLGS is Warhammer and Flames of War, and just looking at the abundance of stuff hanging on the walls that you can buy for those games actually keeps me from wanting to getinto those. and I see this game as being able to get in on the ground floor of something that has potential to grow, and we already know will have organized play as well.

This is exactly what I'm hoping for.

To see games like RuneWars act as a bridge, an olive branch if you will, bringing more casual gamers who haven't been on the "in crowd" of tabletop wargaming for the last 20 years to cross the gap and join us.

Personally I'm transitioning from the dense wargames to the simpler. It's WONDERFUL to me that we finally have common ground that is both simple enough for NEW new players to enjoy, and nuanced enough that I can enjoy the tactical options.

GW pulling out of Gencon has more to do with them promoting their own cons than because they're being snuffed out.

I am dreading if the minatures are going to need a lot of assemble, I bought Alien vs Predator: The Hunt Begins recentely and for a type of board game I was horrified to find I had tons of glueing to perform before I could start a game. I don't know of FFG ever releasing a game that required that amount of assemby and I hope that this one isn't going into that trend.

Pre-painted minis are nice.

I think claiming that the surge of miniature game interest is due solely to the pre-painting is a bit off, though.

The surge in popularity, IMHO, has more to do with the simple-but-nuanced approach to rules, pre-measured distances, and general lowered bar of entry that these games have, not the fact that the pieces come painted.

It's never been painting minis that has kept people away from wargaming, it's been the fact that you need a serious background in wargaming or an intensive course of study to break the crust on the vast majority of wargames.

I say this as someone who spends his time working at an FLGS selling people on new games. It's not the pre-painted minis that sells the box sets, its how easy the game is to get into, something that FFG excels at.

I have to disagree. The surge towards pre-painted miniatures and miniatures gaming is entirely because of three core reasons. 1. It's Star Wars, 2. It's pre-painted, all you have to do is collect and 3. It's Star Wars. Cost of entry has nothing to do with it, in fact if you really take it *** for tat, Warhammer 40k for example is considerably cheaper. You can buy the starter set with 49 miniatures for 110 bucks and this will be a set where you can get a pretty robust experience from the game. With X-Wing for 40 bucks you can get 3 miniatures to play what really amounts to a demo at absolute best. Anyone who plays the game knows that you are going to have to buy at least 2 core set's to get some semblance of a game going and I would argue that you need to buy at least 1 or 2 expansions to form a 100 point list which is a standard game.

What actually drives the cost up of playing Warhammer up is all the paints, brushes, terrain and accessories needed to play, all things you will see as a requirement in Rune Wars. The Rune Wars box set is going to retail for 100 bucks and you effectively get about the same amount of miniatures so the cost point here is about the same as will the upkeep and preparation. Now if your a Warhammer player and you got armies already collected and painted.. switching and starting over.... I personally don't think people are going to be lining up for that.

I could be wrong, I would happily love to be, but I just don't see it. Rune Wars is very likely to have all the same problems (Challenges) every unpainted, un-assembled miniatures game and as someone already mentioned, the market right now is flooded with games of this type. Rune Wars is just one in a sea of them and none of these games are particularly successful when compared to Games Workshop products even after all lay offs and drama that has taken place over there in the last few years.

Pre-painted minis are nice.

I think claiming that the surge of miniature game interest is due solely to the pre-painting is a bit off, though.

The surge in popularity, IMHO, has more to do with the simple-but-nuanced approach to rules, pre-measured distances, and general lowered bar of entry that these games have, not the fact that the pieces come painted.

It's never been painting minis that has kept people away from wargaming, it's been the fact that you need a serious background in wargaming or an intensive course of study to break the crust on the vast majority of wargames.

I say this as someone who spends his time working at an FLGS selling people on new games. It's not the pre-painted minis that sells the box sets, its how easy the game is to get into, something that FFG excels at.

I agree with this. I've been looking to expand beyond X-Wing for miniature games (especially with what I feel are lackluster waves incoming). This game has peaked my interest, and I've never done any painting, but will give it a go. I've wanted to get into wargaming, but with how long some of them have been around, and can be a little intimidating. The next biggest games to X-Wing at my FLGS is Warhammer and Flames of War, and just looking at the abundance of stuff hanging on the walls that you can buy for those games actually keeps me from wanting to getinto those. and I see this game as being able to get in on the ground floor of something that has potential to grow, and we already know will have organized play as well.

This is exactly what I'm hoping for.

To see games like RuneWars act as a bridge, an olive branch if you will, bringing more casual gamers who haven't been on the "in crowd" of tabletop wargaming for the last 20 years to cross the gap and join us.

Personally I'm transitioning from the dense wargames to the simpler. It's WONDERFUL to me that we finally have common ground that is both simple enough for NEW new players to enjoy, and nuanced enough that I can enjoy the tactical options.

I think your kind of their target audience, I do believe their hope is that the transition from say Imperial Assault or X-Wing to Rune Wars won't be too traumatic, it's clear that Rune Wars is mechanically inspired by these games. Personally though I think people are going to do with Rune Wars what often happens to new players in Warhammer.. they buy the core set, realize how much work it actually is to put together and connect the fact that this work will never end if they intend to keep up. By the time you are done assembling and painting your army of Rune Wars Starter set their will be 5 expansions and you can count on it like money in the bank that these expansions will be requirements to compete with someone who has them.

That pull your feeling right now is the novelty because you haven't experienced the truly daunting aspect of assembling and painting miniatures. It's something I always tell people considering getting into Warhammer... its not a game, its a full time hobby. Rune Wars will be no different.

Pre-painted minis are nice.

I think claiming that the surge of miniature game interest is due solely to the pre-painting is a bit off, though.

The surge in popularity, IMHO, has more to do with the simple-but-nuanced approach to rules, pre-measured distances, and general lowered bar of entry that these games have, not the fact that the pieces come painted.

It's never been painting minis that has kept people away from wargaming, it's been the fact that you need a serious background in wargaming or an intensive course of study to break the crust on the vast majority of wargames.

I say this as someone who spends his time working at an FLGS selling people on new games. It's not the pre-painted minis that sells the box sets, its how easy the game is to get into, something that FFG excels at.

I agree with this. I've been looking to expand beyond X-Wing for miniature games (especially with what I feel are lackluster waves incoming). This game has peaked my interest, and I've never done any painting, but will give it a go. I've wanted to get into wargaming, but with how long some of them have been around, and can be a little intimidating. The next biggest games to X-Wing at my FLGS is Warhammer and Flames of War, and just looking at the abundance of stuff hanging on the walls that you can buy for those games actually keeps me from wanting to getinto those. and I see this game as being able to get in on the ground floor of something that has potential to grow, and we already know will have organized play as well.

This is exactly what I'm hoping for.

To see games like RuneWars act as a bridge, an olive branch if you will, bringing more casual gamers who haven't been on the "in crowd" of tabletop wargaming for the last 20 years to cross the gap and join us.

Personally I'm transitioning from the dense wargames to the simpler. It's WONDERFUL to me that we finally have common ground that is both simple enough for NEW new players to enjoy, and nuanced enough that I can enjoy the tactical options.

I think your kind of their target audience, I do believe their hope is that the transition from say Imperial Assault or X-Wing to Rune Wars won't be too traumatic, it's clear that Rune Wars is mechanically inspired by these games. Personally though I think people are going to do with Rune Wars what often happens to new players in Warhammer.. they buy the core set, realize how much work it actually is to put together and connect the fact that this work will never end if they intend to keep up. By the time you are done assembling and painting your army of Rune Wars Starter set their will be 5 expansions and you can count on it like money in the bank that these expansions will be requirements to compete with someone who has them.

That pull your feeling right now is the novelty because you haven't experienced the truly daunting aspect of assembling and painting miniatures. It's something I always tell people considering getting into Warhammer... its not a game, its a full time hobby. Rune Wars will be no different.

I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I've been wanting to get into something that may require assembly/painting. I've been looking into it for a while now, and I have friends that are already in that end of things and have been for a while now. My search for a new miniature game to jump into has been ongoing for a little while now. Watching tutorials and picking friends' brains for tips and what not. Heck, I've been tempted to tackle painting all my Rebellion minis for practice. I've done some assembling of miniatures, but haven't moved past that. I'm also not against fielding the minis myself as I progress through working on the paint, regardless of what others may say about it.

I think it will be a good entry point for those that have been playing mini games and are curious about diving into the deeper end of things, but would like to get their feet wet first.

Warhammer 40k for example is considerably cheaper. You can buy the starter set with 49 miniatures for 110 bucks and this will be a set where you can get a pretty robust experience from the game.

Not really, most of the starterboxes are unbalanced point wise (515 vs. 840 for Dark Vengeance), i can't say if it is the same for those campaign sets which Death Masque is the newest one but i think so.

Normal games are 1500 points and upwards so you have to buy more minaitures and this is where things can really get expensive especially single models can be expensive if you want a chaplain you have to pay 30 or 33 bucks, yes old cheaper models (from 16 to 19,25) still exist but these you must buy online at GWs onlins store you can't get them at your local hobby store. Yes paints and brushes cost money but you do not need to buy them from GW and if you buy good brushes and you look after them, you will be able to use them for quite a long time.

And if you are a a competetiv player you might redo your army when a new rulebook or codex for your army arrives which means additional cost. So wargaming is a expensive hobby but GW wargaming is a little more expensive.

This is something you have with alle starter boxes, the give you a cheap start into the game but they mostly show just a tiny fraction of it.

And games like Warmachine/Hordes, Infinity, Malifaux or Flames of War are sucessful enough to have released many miniatures and factions and most of them have lived to see a 2nd or 3rd edition of their rulebook and it don't seems like they will die soon. Yes they might not make the money GW makes, but they need to? I would say no, as long as they make enough money at the end of the day to support and grow their game everything is fine and i thing FFG can achieve that with this game.

EDIT: GWs realtively new Star Collecting boxes are really good value for the money, so their single faction starter boxes are quite good but they do not include rules (85$), dice and templates.

I think your kind of their target audience, I do believe their hope is that the transition from say Imperial Assault or X-Wing to Rune Wars won't be too traumatic, it's clear that Rune Wars is mechanically inspired by these games. Personally though I think people are going to do with Rune Wars what often happens to new players in Warhammer.. they buy the core set, realize how much work it actually is to put together and connect the fact that this work will never end if they intend to keep up. By the time you are done assembling and painting your army of Rune Wars Starter set their will be 5 expansions and you can count on it like money in the bank that these expansions will be requirements to compete with someone who has them.

That pull your feeling right now is the novelty because you haven't experienced the truly daunting aspect of assembling and painting miniatures. It's something I always tell people considering getting into Warhammer... its not a game, its a full time hobby. Rune Wars will be no different.

I'm transitioning FROM denser wargames.

I've been playing Warhammer 40k for nearly 20 years, with numerous dabblings into other systems along the way, and spent vastly more time assembling, converting, and painting models than I have actually playing the systems in question.

At this point, honestly, I'm sick of them and ready for something like Rune Wars, complete with maneuver templates and modular formation trays.

As someone who sells these games to both veteran and newbie gamers, it's not the assembly/painting that drives them away, it's the dense rulebooks, complex rule interactions, interpreting dice results, and knowing how to combine said dense rules into synergistic combos to NOT get smashed by the first halfway competent player that comes along.

Rune Wars *seems* to remove many of those elements in classic FFG "simple but layered" style, but we'll have to wait and see precisely how it plays.

Regarding comparing this game to any GW product price wise, I feel like there are some things being left out of consideration. Terrain, supplements, codices, inevitable unit upgrades as you work toward the obscenely unbalanced formation that the codex is obviously trying to steer you toward. Even once you cross those boundaries, several hundred dollars later, you're still going to be woefully outmatched by the legion of players who've been going for 20+ years and own every supplement, or just know how to abuse particularly obtuse/obscure/poorly worded rules.

I've given I-Don't-Know-How-Many thousands of dollars to GW over the years, and in 2016 I have ZERO confidence in their ability to produce the sort of streamlined gaming experience that FFG products regularly achieve.

Well I do feel a lot of confidence in FFG's ability to produce a quality product both as a game and as components, often when I review games from FFG on my blog I almost just want to say "same as usual, awesome" and be done with it because their reputation for creating quality is extraordinarily consistent.

I do believe though the question remains, how many people are ready to switch games or star assembling and painting miniatures for the first time? I suppose there is something to be said about the difference in personal experience and global experience, but in my circles the guys who play Warhammer are never going to switch. They might quit playing Warhammer at some point, but the idea of "starting over" with another game has been tested many times over with plenty of great games be it War machines, War Zone etc... and nothing has swayed the large majority.

As you mentioned and I think this is true for the overwhelming majority of miniatures gamers, people spend a very unbalanced amount of time painting and assembling rather than playing these games. Both Rune Wars and Warahmmer are sold as "games" but the reality is that these are really assembling/painting hobbies with side bonus of being a game if and when you actually ever finish.

I also think that drive of "buying more units" is going to be as present in Rune Wars as it is in Warhammer, I doubt you will be avoiding anything by switching in that regard. FFG does the same thing with X-Wing and Armada for example, it's standard operating procedure that when a new wave comes out, competitively if you don't get it you will be at a disadvantage. It's certainly not as prominent in those games as in Warhammer, I do get what your saying about the obscurity of the rules and the connection to collections, but I suspect that in Rune Wars that will still exist to a larger degree. Selling new miniatures is what these games live and die by and the easiest way for FFG to continue selling them to dedicated fans is to ensure that whatever the new thing is, it crushes the old thing.

I do agree thought that part of what drives people away from Warhammer is the cluster that is their rule set. It's really nothing short of a complete disaster and you will rarely find a warhammer player who would state otherwise. Despite that though, Warhammer, in particular 40k is still THE most popular miniatures game on the market (according ICv) so it has not acted as a catalyst for getting people to leave for other games. I think Warhammer players often will pick up other games, but they don't seem to do it with the same fever and dedication they had to Warhammer in terms of "cash out of pocket", if they did, Games Workshop would not be leading this industry.

I suppose only time will tell, we are going to find out soon enough, FFG's previews usually follow on the heels of announcements so as we get more details about the game and what is involved, we'll see if there are any differences in the business model. If nothing else Rune Wars miniatures look amazing, they have certainly set a high standard for the game.