Over the years, I've eyed GW's products off-and-on. The cost and time were prohibitive, but also I just didn't feel a connection with the armies. One thing I did like, was the idea of buying your army and just focusing on that. This game, though, seems to have a core with both factions in one box. That makes it feel very board-gamey to me. It seems so much like BattleLore, only bigger, longer, and more complex. I just don't quite get what it's trying to be because it seems like such a hybrid.

Mostly, though, I'm just sad there are no Uthuk Y'llan. Those are my favorite and I would have had an instant connection to them.

I'm sort of with you on this.

The combination of only announcing the single box and only two factions make it feel like a board game with all the fiddling and time-cost of a miniatures game. The only-two-factions thing is probably what bugs me the most. It works fine for something clearly board game-y like Battlelore or something with a small amount of figures like XWing, but it seems to me it would be very limiting for a bigger army game like this. And even with those examples, third factions have been added, so why not have them from the start?

But there are some nice looking miniatures and the movement trays seem cool, so maybe I'll come around...

Another concern I have is that this may act as a base or core set. That means that later down the road, if you want to pick up Latari Elves, or Uthuk Y'llan, you'd have to pick up this box of Daqan Lords and Waiqar's minions so you can get the templates, dice, and rules. That's a bit of a turn-off.

Mostly, though, I'm just sad there are no Uthuk Y'llan.

That is who I wanted. Loved them in original Disc Wars way back when.

You can see pictures already of minis not in the core box so expansions will be soon I would say.

You can see pictures already of minis not in the core box so expansions will be soon I would say.

Hmmm. I thought so at first, but then I heard that those were Runebound figures. I'm so confused.

You can see pictures already of minis not in the core box so expansions will be soon I would say.

Hmmm. I thought so at first, but then I heard that those were Runebound figures. I'm so confused.

From the new expansions that just released ? Okay. Either way with Organized Play suppot this game will see expansions. Probably in a somewhat similar way to X-Wing and IA.

I wonder if the former GW players that came to X-Wing will flock to this game next.

Another concern I have is that this may act as a base or core set. That means that later down the road, if you want to pick up Latari Elves, or Uthuk Y'llan, you'd have to pick up this box of Daqan Lords and Waiqar's minions so you can get the templates, dice, and rules. That's a bit of a turn-off.

FFG are pretty good at selling components separately...and the rules will probably be PDF. unit cards and upgrades will be in blisters and the starter if they stick to the current model.

As an ex-hardcore GW player I'm excited by this news. Even with expansions the cost will be miniscule compared to GW. If the mini's are cross compatible between Descent, Runebound and this the value is there. Add in X-Wing like templates to the fiddliest part of any miniature war game(movement, los) and I couldn't be more pumped!

This is the miniature wargame I've been waiting for and didn't realize!

To answer the thread question: A money loser for tax write-off purposes that can be later canabalized into other product lines.

I pretty sure this will follow the same distribution model of X-Wing/Imperial Assault/Armada

This is essentially the core box, and then further down the line there will be waves of unit expansions - with new factions probably coming in wave 2-4 or something

It's a fantasy ground based X-Wing/Armada type game. There will be organized play and lots of upgrade cards that make you want to buy units from all the factions. More factions almost certainly coming out later.

The main reason I never considered X-Wing and sold it off was the distribution model. I don't want to buy models I don't want to get rules/cards to use for models I already have. If they avoid that and treat this more like an actual miniatures game I'll probably go all in (if the gameplay is there). If it mimics X-Wing's distribution I'll give this one a pass as well.

Over the years, I've eyed GW's products off-and-on. The cost and time were prohibitive, but also I just didn't feel a connection with the armies. One thing I did like, was the idea of buying your army and just focusing on that. This game, though, seems to have a core with both factions in one box. That makes it feel very board-gamey to me.

You do know that many minature wargames have 2 player starter boxes? Examples would be Warhammer 40K, Age of Sigmar, Warmschine, Hordes, Malifauy, Infinity , Flames of War, Beyond the Gates of Antares and surely more.

The idea of this boxes is to get you and a friend into the hobby, though if you dan't have someone to split it you coudl use the box to showcase the game and get more people ( aka opponents) into the game or you just could sell the army you don't like.

Of course many of the games i mentioned also have single army starter boxes, we will see if this game gets army boxes.

About the game itself, i like what we see, models look good (i'm a sucker for undead) and rules seem interessting. So i'm looking forward to trying this game out.

Over the years, I've eyed GW's products off-and-on. The cost and time were prohibitive, but also I just didn't feel a connection with the armies. One thing I did like, was the idea of buying your army and just focusing on that. This game, though, seems to have a core with both factions in one box. That makes it feel very board-gamey to me.

You do know that many minature wargames have 2 player starter boxes? Examples would be Warhammer 40K, Age of Sigmar, Warmschine, Hordes, Malifauy, Infinity , Flames of War, Beyond the Gates of Antares and surely more.

The idea of this boxes is to get you and a friend into the hobby, though if you dan't have someone to split it you coudl use the box to showcase the game and get more people ( aka opponents) into the game or you just could sell the army you don't like.

Of course many of the games i mentioned also have single army starter boxes, we will see if this game gets army boxes.

About the game itself, i like what we see, models look good (i'm a sucker for undead) and rules seem interessting. So i'm looking forward to trying this game out.

I wasn't aware that 2-player starters were a thing. As I said, I never looked to deep into miniatures games. But I would be much more interested in single-faction starter boxes for this game.

Over the years, I've eyed GW's products off-and-on. The cost and time were prohibitive, but also I just didn't feel a connection with the armies. One thing I did like, was the idea of buying your army and just focusing on that. This game, though, seems to have a core with both factions in one box. That makes it feel very board-gamey to me.

You do know that many minature wargames have 2 player starter boxes? Examples would be Warhammer 40K, Age of Sigmar, Warmschine, Hordes, Malifauy, Infinity , Flames of War, Beyond the Gates of Antares and surely more.

The idea of this boxes is to get you and a friend into the hobby, though if you dan't have someone to split it you coudl use the box to showcase the game and get more people ( aka opponents) into the game or you just could sell the army you don't like.

Of course many of the games i mentioned also have single army starter boxes, we will see if this game gets army boxes.

About the game itself, i like what we see, models look good (i'm a sucker for undead) and rules seem interessting. So i'm looking forward to trying this game out.

I wasn't aware that 2-player starters were a thing. As I said, I never looked to deep into miniatures games. But I would be much more interested in single-faction starter boxes for this game.

No problem, most games have both starter boxes these days so it is possible we will see that for this game down the road. But right now we don't know of course what will be coming, more factions, single faction starter, terrain?

What I like about FFG... they simplify tabletop.

No more cheating by a small margin because the manuever templates are fixed! I don't think people purposely cheat by small white lies kinda thing from my experience.

What I like about FFG... they simplify tabletop.

No more cheating by a small margin because the manuever templates are fixed! I don't think people purposely cheat by small white lies kinda thing from my experience.

We don't know the rules so we can not say how simple it is and you surely can move the movement template a little bit further while picking up you miniatures, believe me i have seen these happen on porpuse and accidently with X-Wing.

And this wouldn't be the first game using something like that, FFGs own X-WIng does it and MERCS uses it's unit cards for movement and it is older than X-Wing.

Another concern I have is that this may act as a base or core set. That means that later down the road, if you want to pick up Latari Elves, or Uthuk Y'llan, you'd have to pick up this box of Daqan Lords and Waiqar's minions so you can get the templates, dice, and rules. That's a bit of a turn-off.

See and this is my hope. If they don't have this, I'm not interested in this.

I'm sort of with you on this.

The combination of only announcing the single box and only two factions make it feel like a board game with all the fiddling and time-cost of a miniatures game. The only-two-factions thing is probably what bugs me the most. It works fine for something clearly board game-y like Battlelore or something with a small amount of figures like XWing, but it seems to me it would be very limiting for a bigger army game like this. And even with those examples, third factions have been added, so why not have them from the start?

But there are some nice looking miniatures and the movement trays seem cool, so maybe I'll come around...

I really don't understand this point of view. It's a two player game. In a two player game, factions take away options, they don't give more options. They impose limits, they don't remove them, by restricting your selection to a more limited pool of figures/armies/whatever.

The ideal is one faction, where everyone can draft from a common pool. That enables much greater variability. Thematically I admit it's less interesting for this kind of game, so I'd concede the need for two factions. But why go beyond this? 4 factions with 4 sku's each enables fewer options than 2 factions with 8 skus each.

I'm sort of with you on this.

The combination of only announcing the single box and only two factions make it feel like a board game with all the fiddling and time-cost of a miniatures game. The only-two-factions thing is probably what bugs me the most. It works fine for something clearly board game-y like Battlelore or something with a small amount of figures like XWing, but it seems to me it would be very limiting for a bigger army game like this. And even with those examples, third factions have been added, so why not have them from the start?

But there are some nice looking miniatures and the movement trays seem cool, so maybe I'll come around...

I really don't understand this point of view. It's a two player game. In a two player game, factions take away options, they don't give more options. They impose limits, they don't remove them, by restricting your selection to a more limited pool of figures/armies/whatever.

The ideal is one faction, where everyone can draft from a common pool. That enables much greater variability. Thematically I admit it's less interesting for this kind of game, so I'd concede the need for two factions. But why go beyond this? 4 factions with 4 sku's each enables fewer options than 2 factions with 8 skus each.

For me, the key is that miniatures games are a much bigger time (and money) investment than other sorts of games. The point of multiple factions is mainly about identity. In something like a card game where it's just a few minutes (or even just a few hours) to throw a deck together, players often identify as what type of deck they like to play ("aggro" or "control"), but will use whatever faction(s) work best for that. With a miniatures game it takes days and weeks and months (and sometimes years) to purchase, construct, model, and paint a full army. At the end of that, you want your army to have a unique point of view, strategy, and aesthetic. To that end, multiple factions make this easier and you get fans who ardently support their chosen faction ("I'm an Eldar player" or "I'm a Haqqislam player") and the lore behind it.

Furthermore, miniatures games are pretty heavily dependent on the aesthetics over the mechanics of the game. If you purely want a mechanically good game, why bother spending all the time and money on these awesome looking figures? But if there's only one (or two) factions in a game, then every army I play against looks the same as mine, even if it plays differently. That would bum me out and probably look less exciting to potential new players walking by.

It's also often the case that a faction will get "solved" and there will be an agreed upon best build for that particular faction. When that is the case, having many factions increases the overall diversity of the opponents' armies on a given day. If I was going to a tournament and knew I'd be facing the exact same one or two armies (which are probably the same as what I'm playing), I'd find that very frustrating and boring.

TL;DR While having many factions might limit an individual player's selection once they've bought into the game, it greatly increases the diversity of aesthetics and competition while promoting stronger faction identity, all aspects that are much more important in miniatures games due to the large monetary and time investment.

But why go beyond this? 4 factions with 4 sku's each enables fewer options than 2 factions with 8 skus each.

Because you'd want to appeal to larger audience by presenting more options for the people to choose and play stuff they like. And being able to choose stuff you like out of a bigger set and collect it is one of the huge draws of miniature games. Traditionally, miniature games are in equal parts a game and a lifestyle collection hobby.

The simplest answer to your question would be that if I don't like dwarves and don't want to play a game that always makes one of the players play dwarves, there is no amount of additional SKUs for a dwarf faction that would change my mind.

You can see pictures already of minis not in the core box so expansions will be soon I would say.

Hmmm. I thought so at first, but then I heard that those were Runebound figures. I'm so confused.

Have confirmed the extra figures are in fact for expansions.

You do know that many minature wargames have 2 player starter boxes? Examples would be Warhammer 40K, Age of Sigmar, Warmschine, Hordes, Malifauy, Infinity , Flames of War, Beyond the Gates of Antares and surely more.

Lots of minis games *have* two-player starter boxes, but they are an option. You can also buy a one-player starter or just build your army from individual blisters. FFG games are somewhat unique in that if you don't buy the starter there are units and upgrades that you cannot buy individually and only come in the starters.