Dash and Freeholders was released in the beginning 2014, meaning they were developed in 2013. So unless you think that I meant Destiny has been in development for over 3 years, which no sane person would conclude, then wouldn't that be something that occurred prior to Destiny stealing resources from the SWLCG as you allege? Even if you assume Destiny started development in early 2015 that would mean everything up to and possibly including Imperial Entanglements would have been developed prior to Destiny syphoning off resources. All of those restrictions and errata would be confined to sets created pre-Destiny.

So even excluding where all of that falls, you will not find a serious player of the SWLCG that will assert that the game is not in a better place now then at any prior point. Even with the need to restrict and errata, which pretty much most products of FFGs require at some point. The game is better balanced then it ever has been, more sets and affiliations are seeing play, and overall releases have been timely and interesting. The games only issue is lack of players which was caused by the delays and poor quality of the Core Set, Edge of Darkness, and Hoth Cycles. All of which were completely unbalanced or outright boring and unuseable. All of those things were developed at a point in time when only X-wing, RPGs, and the LCG existed for FFG Star Wars products. Essentially the point in time where the LCG had the least competition from other Star Wars products was it's absolute weakest from a stand point of development and production. And that weakness has likely crippled the game overall. Destiny wasn't even a twinkle in anyone's eye when they made the Scum sets in EoD, which might as well be thrown out for the most part.

I find it really odd that you are going to act as if the SWLCG and Destiny occupy the same market space, despite distribution differences and a clear gap in complexity even with what limited info we have, while acting as if FFGs Star Wars miniature lines aren't in competition with each other. Have you ever played any of the dice card games out there already, none of them play like any of the LCGs.

No gaming company has tried to have both a collectible model pseudo-card game and non-collectible with the same IP, but I can show you a company that has been able to sucessfully produce 3 miniatures games with the same IP by differentiating them just enough as to not completely canabalize each other. All of them are top sellers too.

But you bringing up AGOT really highlights how just off you are on the the topic. FFG never ran or intended to have both a AGOT CCG and and an AGOT LCG. The LCG concept was introduced as a way to save the CCG which was failing. It wasn't a question of whether they could support both concepts at the sametime, they couldn't continue to make the CCG regardless of what else they decide to do.

. Last time I checked, CoC was discontinued. Please see their announcement: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/22/let-it-eternal-lie/ . But this actually supports my point that Companies will only put their resources into products that generate the highest returns, hence why CoC was discontinued. But give credit to FFG for trying to support this game for as long as it did; but eventually they succumbed to the fact that you cannot continue to put resources into a product that does not provide healthy returns; it simply is not economically viable in the long-run. Go ask any for-profit business owner.

Do you know how many people play multiple LCGs? There are quite a few of them. Hell, my Netrunner playgroup pretty much 90% of them have one other LCG. I think it is clear that they have identified that six LCG's is good to avoid too much cannibalization of their market. Invasion was cancelled for Conquest. CoC was cancelled for L5R. Hell, their even keeping L5R in print.

Draft? MTG players solved that a long time ago with Cubes: you make a card pool and you randomly deal that out.

Draft? MTG players solved that a long time ago with Cubes: you make a card pool and you randomly deal that out.

Not the point you were making, I realize, but I'd just like to point out that there is value in the experience of opening a booster pack. Not a lot of Cube owners I know will let me walk away with their mythics.

Then you have to walk away faster !

And that they have pretty much confirmed that 6 LCGs is about the maximum they feel they can make.

Exactly and now they are taking personnel (Lukas Litzsinger and probaby part of his team) of of developing LCG products to develop collectible games. So the recources available to the LCG department will be much more limited.

Exactly the point.

But to be fair, Lukas also designed Runebound, which isn't even close to an LCG, so I think that he is kind of the wild card designer.

Toenail here hits the nail on the head. Lukas worked on many games that are not Netrunner (including,as said, creating Runebound) and yet Netrunner is still kicking asses. All designers and developers from FFG help on tons of different projects (it's enough that you look at the testers credited at the end of rulebooks to notice) and yet no one has ever said "hey, Caleb tested this game, then LotR will suffer from this" or similar. The collectible model is a lot less demanding than an LCG: just consider how an LCG works. You have a new pack every month, and every six you have a deluxe expansion. You need to keep creating, every day, and keep the whole design into mind. Creating a collectible is a lot less of pressure.

I haven´t said that Lukas only designed Netrunner, nor have I said that the game suffered from his departure. Though to be fair here we only have one data pack with Damons full control. I thought FFg took Lukas of Netrunner because they wanted him to redesign L5R after he did such an amazing job on Netrunner. This game tells me that i´m probably wrong (he could still work on L5R, we don´t know yet who is working on it, but with Lukas being on a collectible game his workload surely increased. thus its not likely that he is in charge on another project)

Before anyone says it, Arkham doesn't count, as, like Lotr, it is more of a Descent type game than an LCG.

Before anybody says what?

That a new LCG came out therefore they are still coexisting.

Before anyone says it, Arkham doesn't count, as, like Lotr, it is more of a Descent type game than an LCG.

That a new LCG came out therefore they are still coexisting.

Roger that, goalposts moved!

That a new LCG came out therefore they are still coexisting.

So you've got no evidence to assert what is being asserted by the OP, but you expect others to disprove the entirely baseless assertion, but you are also going to cherry pick what does and doesn't count.

It's just a flat out disingenuous way to debate a subject.

No it is still a LCG. Your posts on every forum have become more and more ridiculous. I'm just going to ignore list you now. I've had enough and this back pedaling is the final straw.

Before anyone says it, Arkham doesn't count, as, like Lotr, it is more of a Descent type game than an LCG.

And what about L5R?

We can agree to disagree. But my point is this: without reinvestment, FFG simply cannot serve two masters of The collectible Star Wars card game and the non-collectible Star Wars card game. Show me any gaming company that has done this successfully with their product brand and I will concede my point (think about why AGOT became strictly an LCG and having both product segements...)

I don't think they are trying to serve two masters. The games are very distinct. One is a collectible dice game, the other an LCG. The markets (and games, because of the card aspect of the game) may overlap, but I don't think there will be much cannibalising from one to the other market wise.

If they had released a straight up CCG alongside their LCG, I would see you having more of a point.

Yup, agreed with Borithan. I think Armada and X-Wing have mroe overlapping issues than Destiny and the LCG

Before anyone says it, Arkham doesn't count, as, like Lotr, it is more of a Descent type game than an LCG.

That a new LCG came out therefore they are still coexisting.

Roger that, goalposts moved!

I gotta say, I laughed when I saw this. Nobody appreciates quality memes these days. Its not that I don't think that they can coexistst, but this is a world where GW exists, so anything is possible.

double post