FFG got out of collectibles in the first place because they didn't sell: they're so expensive to keep up with that nothing could break MTG's strangehold.

Any game they're serious about looking after they'll make LCG or equivalent. Destiny isn't a serious game like their Star Wars LCG, it's tat for shop checkouts. They probably made it because they were asked to and I'm honestly surprised they're selling it under the FFG brand.

I wrote this for another thread but relevant here, so repost:

Thing is, Im fully ok with the fact of "If I dont like this, simply dont buy it but let others be happy with it" BUT....

1: I truly hope that if this makes masses of money, FFG dont decide that for the time/effort/investment-to-profit, that fixed distribution (LCG) is no longer worth it (no matter what assurances are made now, future desisions will be made then and there).

2: I actually like the look of the game and would have enjoyed playing, but am not prepared to touch random distribution, so for me thats quite simply a dissapointment. I can quite easily "accept" FFG want to donthis to suit "other" players and yet still be dissapointed/unhappy about it personally.

We the express our opinions on these boards, for good or bad. Its not a case of bringing others down, just voicing our own thoughts/opinions.

Me: Very dissapointed in random distribution and it makes me a little uncertain about the future. Its ok saying now that fixed-distribution will still be fully supported and such, but over time if profit figures drive it, things could change.

This "getting into bigger retail chains" and "appealing to the kids" isn't restricted to FFG/Asmodee:

GW of all people (those of "we have our own stores and nobody can stop us bwahahaha!") will be releasing cheap(er) box stes for 40k with coloured plastic (what is this? gunpla?) paint and a brush to get the kiddies in the hobby.

So yeah, "proper" boardgame companies in a mass market retailer will be a thing of the near future.

And that's not necciesarily a bad thing. (Unless they make the imperial assault rancor a Target exclusive, then- hoo boy!)

What was I on about? Oh yeah: Don't worry Alex, this is gonna sell. Bright shiney plastic dice with star wars cards that you can buy with your lunch money when mom takes you shopping at walmart? little Timmy is gonna love that!

snip (what is this? gunpla?) snip

Hey!!! I like gunpla!!!!

FFG got out of collectibles in the first place because they didn't sell: they're so expensive to keep up with that nothing could break MTG's strangehold.

Any game they're serious about looking after they'll make LCG or equivalent. Destiny isn't a serious game like their Star Wars LCG, it's tat for shop checkouts. They probably made it because they were asked to and I'm honestly surprised they're selling it under the FFG brand.

FFG got out of collectibles because theirs didn't sell. Plenty of others do and did. FFG identified an under utilized demographic and carved out a niche for themselves with the LCG concept. They did so at a time when the CCG market was over inundated with concepts.

There is absolutely no indication that this game won't be supported by FFG. If you consider LCGS FFGs supported format I think you are heavily over estimating how much FFG supports their LCG products. Most only have 1 full time designer and no or next to no marketing. In fact just by having the main site redirect you to a Destiny graphic FFG has already advertised this game more then any of their LCGs.

FFG got out of collectibles because theirs didn't sell. Plenty of others do and did.

The established ones. And by established I mean the 90s usually.

It's like people trying to take on WoW, you just can't do it. To get most people onto your MMO you need to get them off WoW. Same with this model of CCG.

FFG got out of collectibles because theirs didn't sell. Plenty of others do and did.

The established ones. And by established I mean the 90s usually.

It's like people trying to take on WoW, you just can't do it. To get most people onto your MMO you need to get them off WoW. Same with this model of CCG.

The issue with every MMO has been that they are billed as the WoW-killer. Their sucess was predicated on whether they could dethrone WoW. That was and is a stupid barometer. You don't have to topple MTG to have a sucessful and profitable collectible game, that should not be the bar you set for anything.

More over Destiny's direct competition isn't going to be MtG, it's going to be Dice Masters. Which is coincidentally a collectible game that sells well despite not being from the 90s. And despite the fact that it's made by a company with a terrible reputation.

So I have to ask what is giving you the indication that FFG won't be supporting this game in a real manner? Because they've put one of their more well known designers on it and they've done more marketing in just announcing it then any of their games not named X-wing.

FFG got out of collectibles because theirs didn't sell. Plenty of others do and did.

The established ones. And by established I mean the 90s usually.

It's like people trying to take on WoW, you just can't do it. To get most people onto your MMO you need to get them off WoW. Same with this model of CCG.

Have you seen the number of Anime Waifu Fightan CCGs there are concurrently raking in money hand over fist? Not exactly ancient 90s figureheads of the genre

And those guys actually show up to tournaments, unlike most of our LCG-buying locals

You lost me at collectible, and at phantom menace, and at Lukas Litzsinger.

Instant miss for me.

Since the first booster packs are from the reboot I'm not sure what you mean by "Phantom Menace", but Lukas Litzsinger is THE most successful collectible and awarded card designer since Richard Garfield. Personal opinions and preferences differ and everyone is entitled to theirs but just by combining Litzsinger, Star Wars and FFG on this projects means that it is forgone conclusion that this game will be immensely popular and successful, its not even a debatable conversation.

Then pass. It greatly confuses me why people, think anyone else cares what you are not going to buy. I'm not going to buy a Ford. Does anyone need to know that or care. Nope.

Everybody is entitled to express his opinion, so, if it's OK saying "want" it's also OK saying "pass". If you don't like reading the opinions of the public, then avoid these threads. Finally, if this were a board about cars, saying "pass" to a Ford won't be so odd to read.

I find very interesting reading how many are happy with the format and how many will boycott the product, and I'm sure others are curious as well.

You go girl!

Main point here is that from the company that invented the Living Card Game system as an alternate solution to the collectible card games, producing a collectible right now, years after their first LCGs, looks like a very big step backwards, also in terms of image and credibility

I'm sure the game will be fun, but the format is a deal breaker for me too

It's almost as if being bought up by greedy french investment bankers was a bad thing.

And what does their nationality have to do with anything? "Greedy investment bankers" seems explanation enough.

This is a perfect time to release a Collectable card game. I for one am excited for this because I missed out on the first 4 SW CCG/TCGs. Not only that but I get to do it from the beginning which will make this easier for me. I want it to be hot and to sell because I want FFG to be able to keep the Star Wars license and keep making great games as well as new Star Wars LCG product as I want that game to keep going. It might be more expensive and random but you will have a secondary market where you can buy, sell, and trade. I miss that in the LCGs from my TCG days. You don't like the model fine, but I think of it as opportunity to break even, cover some of the cost, or to make money on top of a the opportunity to create a larger community because of the introduction of this model. This could succeed or it could fail, but I'm on this ride and I'm going to enjoy it.

I'm a bit confused... Anyone who says that X-Wing and Armada are not collectible games really hasn't played either. You still end up buying ships you want and "building a deck" of upgrades from other expansions. It's just not random.

I'm a bit confused... Anyone who says that X-Wing and Armada are not collectible games really hasn't played either. You still end up buying ships you want and "building a deck" of upgrades from other expansions. It's just not random.

Yup, that's the point. No probs with the collectible aspect (our whole boardgame passion is based on the idea of collecting games), my problems stem with the blind buy mechanism

Main point here is that from the company that invented the Living Card Game system as an alternate solution to the collectible card games, producing a collectible right now, years after their first LCGs, looks like a very big step backwards, also in terms of image and credibility

I'm sure the game will be fun, but the format is a deal breaker for me too

I completely agree! It's sad to see FFG go in the wrong direction.

It's not "the wrong direction." It's just a direction you don't like.

I'm a bit confused... Anyone who says that X-Wing and Armada are not collectible games really hasn't played either. You still end up buying ships you want and "building a deck" of upgrades from other expansions. It's just not random.

Typically when people refer to collectible in the context of these games they are talking about things with different rarities (usually accompanied by a blind buy) and a limited print run. Nothing in x wing is blind buy and nothing has different rarity/availability as far as I'm aware.

I'm actually pretty excited about this game. I played L5R for over a decade, and while I'm excited to see it as an LCG, I've found the LCGs to have been pretty underwhelming in my favorite format: the draft.

I bought the TMNT Dice Masters because it is NOT collectable.

This looks interesting, but.... I won't get into it unless my friends do.

Main point here is that from the company that invented the Living Card Game system as an alternate solution to the collectible card games, producing a collectible right now, years after their first LCGs, looks like a very big step backwards, also in terms of image and credibility

I'm sure the game will be fun, but the format is a deal breaker for me too

I still amazed with this kind of opinions. Of course is very respectfull. Let see... LCG is EQUAL OR WORST than a CCG in therms of money. And i fell it is also WORST. Why i must buy 3 core sets to have a complete set of cards?? thats stupid!! 120,00 € at least, and you are payind 3 times the box, the rulebook, the insert, the tokens (almost the 50% of the production). Is not a good system to compare with CCG. Also, i t depends of the personality of the people, if you need to collect all, well, you gonna paid, whatever the concept be, but with CCG you can just spend a few dolars to hava a great game, and also compete!! and everytime you want a bit of more "salt" to your game, just spend 3 dolars for a booster!! open it!! discover!! its fun!! also you can search only for the cards you want! and the best of all, trade with other players!!

The problem is that people are assuming FFG did the LCG thing as charity towards those sad, downtrodden and abused CCG players, because Christian Petersen et al are very nice people and all they ever wanted is for all the players to live happily ever after in a magical fairytale land with rainbows and unicorns. So now those people feel cheated and betrayed.

SPOILER ALERT

FFG didn't do the LCG thing to make you feel better or because they took the moral high ground, they did the LCG thing because in 2009 they identified a niche in the market that they could fill to make more money. It is now 2016, the LCG thing is a bit on the down low for many different reasons and they have identified a different area of the market that might not be a completely empty niche, but nevertheless has enough room for them to make some more money.

Also, Santa isn't real.

Also, Santa isn't real.

Yes he is.

I AM SANTA CLAUSE!!!!!!!!!!

Also, Santa isn't real.

Yes he is.

I AM SANTA CLAUSE!!!!!!!!!!

Santa Clause is Supreme Leader Snoke CONFIRMED!

Main point here is that from the company that invented the Living Card Game system as an alternate solution to the collectible card games, producing a collectible right now, years after their first LCGs, looks like a very big step backwards, also in terms of image and credibility

I'm sure the game will be fun, but the format is a deal breaker for me too

I still amazed with this kind of opinions. Of course is very respectfull. Let see... LCG is EQUAL OR WORST than a CCG in therms of money. And i fell it is also WORST. Why i must buy 3 core sets to have a complete set of cards?? thats stupid!! 120,00 € at least, and you are payind 3 times the box, the rulebook, the insert, the tokens (almost the 50% of the production). Is not a good system to compare with CCG. Also, i t depends of the personality of the people, if you need to collect all, well, you gonna paid, whatever the concept be, but with CCG you can just spend a few dolars to hava a great game, and also compete!! and everytime you want a bit of more "salt" to your game, just spend 3 dolars for a booster!! open it!! discover!! its fun!! also you can search only for the cards you want! and the best of all, trade with other players!!

First of all, 3 core was true for older LCGs; Star Wars needs only 2 cores. And in general, getting 3 cores is not that brilliant in general, because following packs will probably provide better cards than those in the core set, otherwise there won't be any need to produce new cards.

Then, trading works if you have people to trade with. I don't live in an English speaking country and this means that I'd be getting the game to play with my family or a couple of friends (literally a couple), so as said, trading is not an option. Clearly this is my problem, not FFG's, but still, I imagine there could be other people living in smaller communities where trading could be difficult.

Finally, it's not a question of money. Not saying investing in collectible costs less or more than investing in LCGs. I'm saying that from a company who made a crusade against the collectible model, created the LCG trademark and made only games with no blind buy mechanics returning to the collectible model is a huge loss in professional credibility (it's like a vegan professing his vegan convinctions seen at McDonald's eating burgers). Considering that after they were acquired by Asmodee they suddently became not so popular (see all the problems after the declarations on the need to keep prices high and control the market), putting on the market another game that's made to milk their audience is not exactly something that will be welcomed by many. Already too many people are comparing FFG to GW these days; something that would never have been imaginable 2 or 3 years ago.

I'm not saying the game won't be a success, or that they don't have the rights to do so; I'm saying that they will end up pissing off their audience. Those that allowed them to become a very important reality in the sector, and that won't support the company in the future. Clearly, as long as the money keeps flowing, I understand a company doesn't care about this, but nonetheless it's a pity.

Main point here is that from the company that invented the Living Card Game system as an alternate solution to the collectible card games, producing a collectible right now, years after their first LCGs, looks like a very big step backwards, also in terms of image and credibility

I'm sure the game will be fun, but the format is a deal breaker for me too

I still amazed with this kind of opinions. Of course is very respectfull. Let see... LCG is EQUAL OR WORST than a CCG in therms of money. And i fell it is also WORST. Why i must buy 3 core sets to have a complete set of cards?? thats stupid!! 120,00 € at least, and you are payind 3 times the box, the rulebook, the insert, the tokens (almost the 50% of the production). Is not a good system to compare with CCG. Also, i t depends of the personality of the people, if you need to collect all, well, you gonna paid, whatever the concept be, but with CCG you can just spend a few dolars to hava a great game, and also compete!! and everytime you want a bit of more "salt" to your game, just spend 3 dolars for a booster!! open it!! discover!! its fun!! also you can search only for the cards you want! and the best of all, trade with other players!!

First of all, 3 core was true for older LCGs; Star Wars needs only 2 cores. And in general, getting 3 cores is not that brilliant in general, because following packs will probably provide better cards than those in the core set, otherwise there won't be any need to produce new cards.

Then, trading works if you have people to trade with. I don't live in an English speaking country and this means that I'd be getting the game to play with my family or a couple of friends (literally a couple), so as said, trading is not an option. Clearly this is my problem, not FFG's, but still, I imagine there could be other people living in smaller communities where trading could be difficult.

Finally, it's not a question of money. Not saying investing in collectible costs less or more than investing in LCGs. I'm saying that from a company who made a crusade against the collectible model, created the LCG trademark and made only games with no blind buy mechanics returning to the collectible model is a huge loss in professional credibility (it's like a vegan professing his vegan convinctions seen at McDonald's eating burgers). Considering that after they were acquired by Asmodee they suddently became not so popular (see all the problems after the declarations on the need to keep prices high and control the market), putting on the market another game that's made to milk their audience is not exactly something that will be welcomed by many. Already too many people are comparing FFG to GW these days; something that would never have been imaginable 2 or 3 years ago.

I'm not saying the game won't be a success, or that they don't have the rights to do so; I'm saying that they will end up pissing off their audience. Those that allowed them to become a very important reality in the sector, and that won't support the company in the future. Clearly, as long as the money keeps flowing, I understand a company doesn't care about this, but nonetheless it's a pity.

Im not defending CCG against LCG. But its funny to me to see people make bad critics to CCG using LCG as a good example. I dont know why you say that FFG invent LCG to fight against CCG... hahaha, thats funny. I told you something. LCG is one of the most aggresive ways of selling that i know by far. People change this formats like it was a way of life. Can live together, but nobody can say, with proofs, that LCG is the GOOD and CCG the devil. Of course can understand that you prefer one that other, but to me the important first of all is the game mechanichs, not the wat of monetize, because i dont want to HAVE ALL... i just want to play.

PS and you are tottally wrong, if you want to play competitive aGoT (new LCG) you need 3 cores

FFG never went on a crusade against the CCG model, stating as such is just not accurate.

FFG did not create LCGs because they felt CCGs were bad, evil, predatory, or any other adjective that would ascribe a moral imperative to FFGs actions. FFG created the LCG model, because their CCG wasn't selling well. Not because they had a duty to take a stand against the tyranny of CCGs, but because they were failing in the CCG business.

And good for FFG for rebranding sucessfully. They targeted an underserviced demographic and were able to create a nice market for themselves. But to call that a crusade against CCGs is to tell a lie.

Nor, are FFGs non-collectible distribution models considered all that gamer friendly. X-wing includes fixes for older ships in new releases, some of which are Epic ships that can't be used in normal play. They also package upgrades in a way that cause players to buy more of certain ships they they normally would or ever intend to use. In Imperial Assault they package some models only in deluxe expansions. You have to buy the whole thing to get one model or one card. I have zero problem with either if those things. But just because they are non-blind buys doesn't mean they don't have ways to encourage players to buy product they don't really want in order to get the stuff they really do. Which is exactly what a blind buy model does.

Additionally, 3 Cores is still true. SWLCG required 2 because unlike Conquest and AGOT, you can only have x2 of a set not x3 of a card in a deck. And remember the SWLCG Core Set didn't have 1/3rd of the Affiliations fully represented, that came in Edge of Darkness. So in reality SWLCG required 4 core sets. Without question if you wanted to play FFGs most recent LCG, AGOT, competitivly you'd need 3 Core Sets. Cycle packs do not, nor do they even intend to, phase out the need to have the full Core Set available to you any where near as quickly as you suggest.