Does anyone but me find it a little odd that even in the errata basically any FNG who just fell off the turnip barge and landed in fortress Erioch can just requisition himself a missile launcher and a load out of powerful missiles but you have to be at least respected to get yourself a far weaker and less effective underbarrell grenade launcher for your bolter?

It just seems to me that the renown requirements for the underbarrel GL and the more powerful Missile launcher are transposed.

of course being 40k..... I suppose getting what amounts to a to a heavy weapon is easier and requires less respect that modifying the holy bolter in any way.

Desthwatch quartermaster. What do you seek, brother?

FNG 1. I want a potent long range missile launcher and some powerful anti tank and anti personnel missiles.

DWQM. Here, with the emperor's blessings.

DWQM. What do you seek brother?

FNG 2. I'd like a small limited range underbarrel grenade launcher to attach to my bolter.

DWQM. Oh, you would, would you? Here you are just off the barge and you think you're qualified to modify the Holy Bolter design? Well, la dee dah! You think you know better better than the emperor who designed the Holy Bolter, do you? Look, junior, come back with a little renown in a few months and maybe we'll talk about it then! Until then if you wanna blow stuff up so **** bad you just take yourself this here big heavy long range more powerful missile launcher and get your impertinent self outta my armory!

One possibility is that the more miniaturised technology is rarer. But it does seem odd.

that is a nice try at an explanation but given the difference in power and range on the two I don't see the gl using different tech than the missile launcher. Just a smaller piece of the same tech.

I was just thinking about a small gl attachment for my character's gun since I like them in FPS games.

One possibility is that the more miniaturised technology is rarer. But it does seem odd.

Another funny thing is that for the same money you can take the entire Combi-bolter. Someone just didn't look at these numbers .

Well a combi bolter's under barrel only fires once and you can't seem to reload it. Unless I missed something.

Aldo note that the DW requisition doesn't factor economics into things anyway. It's more about can we trust you to use this wisely? I mean even if the imperium had vortex grenades coming out if its ass would they give them to joe guardsman? I don't think so...

Well a combi bolter's under barrel only fires once and you can't seem to reload it. Unless I missed something.

"Secondary weapon has RoF: S/–/– and Clip: 1, with all other statistics as per the weapon’s entry." - Corebook, p.145

"The secondary weapon on each firearm has a profile identical to a Flamer, Meltagun, and Plasma Gun respectively, except its Clip is reduced to 1" - Corebook, p.146.

So you can reload it just fine, according to the rules.

And "for the same money" was a figurative expression.

Hmmm, now I wonder what reloads for combi weapons cost and weigh......

And you're right about cost. I mean personally I feel an under barrel GL should be like 5 req and it's renown should be like ”You want one? Here.”

Seriously the expense, size and complexity of something like this is probably less than the ammo selector you get for walking off the barge.

I just noticed a missile launcher with 8 frag and 8 krak missiles costs 10 req but a gl with 4 frag and krak grenades cost 15 and has a higher renown too. I think I have to change this. I can see making a ML available to the FNGs so they can get stuck toting one and using it for simple grunt work at first. But there really is no reason to make the inferior gl have so much more cost and renown. I mean unless it's hard as hell to make a gl that works with the fire selector that goes on a DW bolter...

I think I may lower the GL to like 7 req and no renown. That seems more reasonable unless there really is some totally bizarre deathwatch 40k "reason" grenade launchers are so much more expensive than a missile launcher. And I really think the loaded ml should be like 15 req. Anyone agree?

With the ML, I believe it was to give a devastator or tach marine an alternate weapon besides a heavy bolter to take if needed, while the grenade launcher can increase the killing power of any marine with a bolter, as well as probably being a lot easier to handle indoors.

Indoors I imagine marines might toss grenades by hand at those ranges...

Also I can see the ML being so cheap and req free because it seems devs are the low rank in space marine forces. There was a recent thread about devs getting few upgrades and the gist was were were meant to advance to other positions in regular SM chapters and likely the DW too.

So yeah you have a DW squad and a member just got et so they need a FNG to fill in his place. Along comes FNG and they decide to hand him a missile launcher and let him do the easiest, tho certainly still dangerous, demanding and honorable, job of swinging the big club. So while the squad vets do the more complicated, subtle deathwatchy stuff that takes experience he stands there watching their backs, keeping an eye out for enemy, and if needed just lets then heavy firepower fly, krak missiling heavy stuff and fragging hordes of smaller enemy. It's still vital and worthy work but likely the simplest job on a DW team.

It's not hard to see the fng with the ML doing the less demanding Jobs. The vets experts sneak into the ork camp and whack the warboss, thus causing the incipient Waaaauuuugh! to fall apart as the orks fight over leadership, and as they are escaping the FNG outside the camp starts fragging ork boyz coming after them and kraking ork vehicles. So they all get home OK. Sure he may have done the most actual physical damage in a lot of ways but the team vets did the harder job of offing the warboss. So mission accomplished, everyone's happy and brother FNG earns his first XP on a DW mission.

Well, it's no ingame explanation for cost and renown, but from a rule technical perspective the GL has quite some advantages:

- No need to swap weapons (ML all count as heavy weapon, so no quick draw instant weapon switch)

- Only one hand needed

- Much more choice of ammunition, which makes it tactically a lot more flexible

- It has a lot less weight (lol, as if anyone would take care of that in DW)

- It has a lot less weight (lol, as if anyone would take care of that in DW)

While weight by itself is of little concern, most people I know tend to impose common sense limits on how much gear a Marine can take to the field, so the great portability of an aux. grenade launcher is not insignificant.

Overall, you probably don't want to take a giant bazooka with you on each and every mission, but a grenade launcher that boosts the range of your standard grenades and can be attached to any weapon you have (or even directly to your armor) is something you'll never really regret taking. It may not be as impressive as the big thing, but it's definitely much more universally useful.

some excellent points, insights and food for thought here. No matter how clever you may be you're never above learning from your fellow gamers.

As far as the IC reason for the higher requisition and renown of the aux launcher goes, I'd speculate it is simply a matter of saving up resources by not handing out non-essential gear willy-nilly, disguised as a matter of tradition, faith, honor and glory.

It's pretty obvious that for all their considerable resources, the Astartes still have limits on what they can hand out to the battle brothers - otherwise, why not make a storm bolter a standard issue rifle when it's pretty much a straight-up upgrade over the normal bolter? So, they issue gear that's still mighty by anyone's standards, but not the best they theoretically can manage, and reserve the best pieces for more accomplished and experienced warriors, reasoning it'll be put to best use in their hands - and because it's the Imperium and you can't take a dump without praying to the Emperor and the machine-spirit of the flushing device, the procedures of distributing gear become highly ritualized and shrouded in imponderabilia. Which of course serves a purpose as well - saying "only those who brought glorious victory to the Chapter on countless fields of battle will be trusted with the holy power sword" is more motivational and better for the morale than "look, we can't afford enough power swords to give one to every schmuck, so take your chainsword and quit yapping!"

Going back to missile launcher vs aux grenade launcher, they're both relatively simple technology, and most likely it's way cheaper to make a small portable grenade launcher than a giant bazooka with missiles capable of shredding heavy armor and/or entire ranks of infantry, but it's much more vital for the squad to have a bazooka when necessary than to have what's essentially a convenience item for guys who can already lob grenades at distances of over thirty meters. Hence, they cannot afford to get stingy with handing out missile launchers, but they totally can save a lot of resources by handing out auxiliary grenade launchers only on request, when resources permit, and to accomplished battle brothers at that.