Well, as a long time MoM fan, I am glad to see that FFG has not totally given up on the product line. And cudos to them for keeping it a secret until the week before release (something tells me they wanted to wait until GenCon but the proverbial cat was going to get out of the bag). I think after the Descent app, many of us knew this would be the next logical step.

That being said I have severe reservations. At a $100 MSRP for so little content in the box (remember, all those Keeper materials are now in the app so there is less physical product to have to manufacture) it just seems FFG is once again preying on fan loyalty. Also, I don't like the fact that players no longer get to customize their charxgters and the interchangeable card driven system from the 1st ed has been replaced with your standard issue static character sheet. It takes away much of the RPG elements of the original that added a lot of, well, character to it. Also, the artwork strikes me as a bit bland compared to the 1st ed (or even Arkham Horror for that matter).

Anyway, as if stands, other than the app, this does not seem like an improvement over the original. Unless there is more compelling content in the box that FFG is holding back on, I don't think this is a must have more me, especially as 1st ed with a human Keeper works just fine (who we always play more as a storyteller than an all out adversary anyway). Maybe when this thing hits clearance at the online retailers I will re-consider.

I think it is not an improvement even with the app. I have tried the Descent app and in my opinion it is more frustrating and cumbersome than useful. You still need to put in your moves and what happened into the app, so it can react, adding considerable time waste to your plays. Not to mention, the app will never be able to come up with strategies as clever as a human player who has a much better grasp of what is happening on the game board. I am not against apps in board games, but I have yet to see one that actually made sense, and I am afraid this is not going to be it either. We'll see though...

I get where you're coming from re the customisation options of the investigators, though one might argue that those options in MoM1 were limited anyway compared to, say, Arkham Horror, where you could actively manage the skills throughout the game - perhaps FFG sought to streamline the game by stripping the mechanics that were only light touches anyway.

As for me, I'm really excited about this. MoM1 is one of my partner's favourite boardgames and though I quite like it, I abhor the setup time for what can often be an anticlimatic finish. We find that with having limited time for this kind of game anyway these days, MoM1 never gets off the shelf. Having enjoyed XCOM and how the app does a lot of the heavy lifting, I think MoM2 is a step in a different direction that will make the game more enjoyable for some gamers.

The fact that it's out next week is exciting indeed - I hate 6 month wait times on upcoming titles.

Well, as a long time MoM fan, I am glad to see that FFG has not totally given up on the product line. And cudos to them for keeping it a secret until the week before release (something tells me they wanted to wait until GenCon but the proverbial cat was going to get out of the bag). I think after the Descent app, many of us knew this would be the next logical step.

That being said I have severe reservations. At a $100 MSRP for so little content in the box (remember, all those Keeper materials are now in the app so there is less physical product to have to manufacture) it just seems FFG is once again preying on fan loyalty. Also, I don't like the fact that players no longer get to customize their charxgters and the interchangeable card driven system from the 1st ed has been replaced with your standard issue static character sheet. It takes away much of the RPG elements of the original that added a lot of, well, character to it. Also, the artwork strikes me as a bit bland compared to the 1st ed (or even Arkham Horror for that matter).

Anyway, as if stands, other than the app, this does not seem like an improvement over the original. Unless there is more compelling content in the box that FFG is holding back on, I don't think this is a must have more me, especially as 1st ed with a human Keeper works just fine (who we always play more as a storyteller than an all out adversary anyway). Maybe when this thing hits clearance at the online retailers I will re-consider.

You know, it's not like apps rain from the sky and have no cost to develop / produce. Actually, there's a lot more work to be done behind an app than behind the printing of a deck of cards. Remember also that for 100$ you'll also have the convertion kit in the box, allowing monsters and investigators and tiles from first edition to be used also with second edition.

Plus, I tend to evaluate the price of a game in terms of the experience delivered, not the amount of things in the box: I'm not buying a steak (and even with steaks you pay differently according to the quality delivered), I'm buying an entertainment tool that should grant me several hours of fun. And I hardly doubt I'll spend 100 bucks and play this game once.

The best thing about app introduction is possibility of full co-op. I broke my head designing viable co-op variant for MoM at some point, and it was extrenely fiddly to play due to all the factors you must take into account to not screw up the playthrough. With app you'll just launch it and will have an adventure there and ready for you. Neat. My only problem right now is that I don't have any devices to run it on (I'm kinda orthodoxal about mobile devices, I use my pretty old cell-phone to call, text, and listen to music), but I guess if emulator won't do, then I'll buy something finally.

The best thing about app introduction is possibility of full co-op. I broke my head designing viable co-op variant for MoM at some point, and it was extrenely fiddly to play due to all the factors you must take into account to not screw up the playthrough. With app you'll just launch it and will have an adventure there and ready for you. Neat. My only problem right now is that I don't have any devices to run it on (I'm kinda orthodoxal about mobile devices, I use my pretty old cell-phone to call, text, and listen to music), but I guess if emulator won't do, then I'll buy something finally.

Somewhere it did say the app will be available for desktops/laptops through steam

The best thing about app introduction is possibility of full co-op. I broke my head designing viable co-op variant for MoM at some point, and it was extrenely fiddly to play due to all the factors you must take into account to not screw up the playthrough. With app you'll just launch it and will have an adventure there and ready for you. Neat. My only problem right now is that I don't have any devices to run it on (I'm kinda orthodoxal about mobile devices, I use my pretty old cell-phone to call, text, and listen to music), but I guess if emulator won't do, then I'll buy something finally.

Somewhere it did say the app will be available for desktops/laptops through steam

Yep. I have an old small Asus notebook with a touchscreen that I will use with the Steam app as I don't own a tablet.

If it comes with some moody ambient sounds (like Descent) I might even pick up a set of small speakers to add to the experience.

The best thing about app introduction is possibility of full co-op. I broke my head designing viable co-op variant for MoM at some point, and it was extrenely fiddly to play due to all the factors you must take into account to not screw up the playthrough. With app you'll just launch it and will have an adventure there and ready for you. Neat. My only problem right now is that I don't have any devices to run it on (I'm kinda orthodoxal about mobile devices, I use my pretty old cell-phone to call, text, and listen to music), but I guess if emulator won't do, then I'll buy something finally.

My friend, do you not own a PC or Mac (desktop or laptop)? Something that can run a .exe?

I get where you're coming from re the customisation options of the investigators, though one might argue that those options in MoM1 were limited anyway compared to, say, Arkham Horror, where you could actively manage the skills throughout the game - perhaps FFG sought to streamline the game by stripping the mechanics that were only light touches anyway.

Eldritch Horror and Elder Sign also have limited investigator customization, so I get where you are coming from, but the investigator set up in MoM is just another aspect of it that made it unique compared to the other Arkhham games. To me, taking this feature out is a step backwards.

You know, it's not like apps rain from the sky and have no cost to develop / produce. Actually, there's a lot more work to be done behind an app than behind the printing of a deck of cards. Remember also that for 100$ you'll also have the convertion kit in the box, allowing monsters and investigators and tiles from first edition to be used also with second edition.

Plus, I tend to evaluate the price of a game in terms of the experience delivered, not the amount of things in the box: I'm not buying a steak (and even with steaks you pay differently according to the quality delivered), I'm buying an entertainment tool that should grant me several hours of fun. And I hardly doubt I'll spend 100 bucks and play this game once.

I agree the cost of the app should be a factor in the price of the total package but let's be honest here. From the "trailer" it is obvious that they are reusing the same app platform that was used for Descent. So the cost of developing/purchasing that platform was already spent. If we were to put a price on the app if it were to be sold separately it would be at most $10. And that is assuming it comes with more than just a handful of scenarios. We all know that one of FFG's primary motivations with using the app is to be able to sell us future scenarios via IAP. Just like they did/are,doing with the Descent app. Furthermore, FFG gave the base Descent app AND the first full campaign away for free which gives one the impression that there really isn't a tremendous cost involved in producting these apps (which there isn't).

So even assigning a retail value of $10 to the app alone, I am just not seeing an additional $90 of value in the box. Even though it includes the conversion kit, from what has been shown, that kit only includes the new investigators sheets. So unless there is A LOT more content in that box then what is being shown in the marketing materials, and with the original MoM having an MSRP of $60, this right now appears to be way over priced. Maybe FFG's new policy is to put core editions of product lines in big boxes and set the MSRP at $100 regardless of actual content just because they can...

I agree the cost of the app should be a factor in the price of the total package but let's be honest here. From the "trailer" it is obvious that they are reusing the same app platform that was used for Descent. So the cost of developing/purchasing that platform was already spent. If we were to put a price on the app if it were to be sold separately it would be at most $10. And that is assuming it comes with more than just a handful of scenarios. We all know that one of FFG's primary motivations with using the app is to be able to sell us future scenarios via IAP. Just like they did/are,doing with the Descent app. Furthermore, FFG gave the base Descent app AND the first full campaign away for free which gives one the impression that there really isn't a tremendous cost involved in producting these apps (which there isn't).

So even assigning a retail value of $10 to the app alone, I am just not seeing an additional $90 of value in the box. Even though it includes the conversion kit, from what has been shown, that kit only includes the new investigators sheets. So unless there is A LOT more content in that box then what is being shown in the marketing materials, and with the original MoM having an MSRP of $60, this right now appears to be way over priced. Maybe FFG's new policy is to put core editions of product lines in big boxes and set the MSRP at $100 regardless of actual content just because they can...

Well just because the app is using a similar code-base to Descent, it doesn't mean it was free. Descent Road To Legend came out very recently, there's no way they developed this whole thing (app and physical components) in the three months since it release. Indeed, MoM would have been at the printers before RtL even came out.

So this was part of the strategy when they started work on the platform. So those platform development costs will have been split between Road To Legend, MoM, and anything else they're working on that might be using the platform. You don't just assign all the costs to the product that launches first. The fact that the Descent app and first campaign was given away for free if anything suggests that MoM was the core driver in developing the app platform and RtL was the extra...

Next, the Descent app was also designed to drive purchases of physical expansions, and dollar for dollar you get about the same amount of physical stuff in $100 of Descent expansions as you do in MoM.

Lastly: plastic. The cost of plastic and minis keeps going up. FFG have always opted to not raise the price of reprints of existing games, so the older the game, the better 'value' you get in terms of minis. MoM is one of the oldest games with minis in the catalogue, and even then the MSRP was $80, not $60 as you suggest. This edition has the same number of minis, which make up the bulk of the cost, so $100 with increased plastic prices seems reasonable.

The way to do a $60 version of this would be to go all cardboard, which just wouldn't be as much fun.

Always on the app: let's put it this way. When you buy for 50 EUR a videogame for you favorite system, do you think "hey, the cost of this dvd is 0.40 EUR, so, let's hope the booklet coming with the game is worth the other 49.60?" Nope. And I'm pretty sure videogame designers re-use engines already tested to death and used for other games. Same reasoning should be applied here.

Furthermore: I think the app for Mansions and the app for Descent are completely different in terms of "pay-per-play": Descent is 100% playable without the app, while the app is integral part of Mansions. So, the two realities are not comparable. Still, even if they come to me and ask me 2 bucks for a scenario to play, I'll be more than happy to pay the price, after all having a new scenario means a load of work for developers, programmers and so on

I'm sorry, but building a mobile app in the vein of RtL or this MoM app doesn't even come close to the cost of making even a basic current gen console game. If we are going to agree that the cardboard in the box has a retail value of $60 (and even that is dubious given there is less physical content in this box compared to the first ed box from what they have shown), there is no way the app would be worth $40. It would need to have hundreds of scenarios built in to even come close to being worth that much, and as FFG's history in this area has proved, the app will most likely come with just a few scenarios with the expectation that we will need to purchase additional scenarios as IAP. FFG's last game that required an app was XCOM, which has the same amount of physical content that MoM 2e appears to have, and that game has an MSRP at $60. Maybe once this releases (and we won't have to wait long for that) the $100 value will be evident, but I am just not seeing it now. Imperial Assault, which DOES'T have an app (yet) but has way more content in the box than this game appears to have, also has an MSRP of $100, and I can see the value there. So right now, pricing this at $100 just seems like a rip off. I would have given this issue more of a pass knowing that I could get it for around $65 online, but now that ANA/FFG is directly manipulating the way retailers can sell their games, that recourse isn't even an option making this even more a slap in the face of us fans.

I'm sorry, but building a mobile app in the vein of RtL or this MoM app doesn't even come close to the cost of making even a basic current gen console game. If we are going to agree that the cardboard in the box has a retail value of $60 (and even that is dubious given there is less physical content in this box compared to the first ed box from what they have shown), there is no way the app would be worth $40. It would need to have hundreds of scenarios built in to even come close to being worth that much, and as FFG's history in this area has proved, the app will most likely come with just a few scenarios with the expectation that we will need to purchase additional scenarios as IAP. FFG's last game that required an app was XCOM, which has the same amount of physical content that MoM 2e appears to have, and that game has an MSRP at $60.

XCOM had 12 minis, MoM has 32. If you really want to judge by materials costs, the plastic is 90% of the costs in both cases. The cardboard and cards cost a tiny amount in comparison. Nearly three times as many minis, similar amount of card, you're looking at a much higher production cost.

For your other comparison, Imperial Assault v MoM2:

Minis: 36 v 32

Tiles: 24 (+15 connectors) v 24

Cards: 289 v 235

Dice: 11 v 5

Tokens 173 v 147

So yeah, MoM2 has less stuff. But it doesn't have *way* less, and it has a very similar number of minis, which are most of the cost.

And the cost of developing the app - sure, it doesn't take a fraction of the cost of making a console game. But it won't be bought by a fraction of the number of people that buy a new console game either. 100,000 copies sold is a hugely successful board game whereas 1 million copies sold is a failure for a modern console game.

Instead of 4 minis, 24 little tiles, 64 cards , 6 dice and 26 tokens you get an app. That feels like a reasonable trade off to me?

You can still get a discount on board games, just not an excessive discount, so you should be able to pick this up for $90 somewhere.

$90 is also the cost for the 6 POD scenarios for 1st edition, so I'm not feeling too bad about the price for this game.

The conversion kit is worth at least the $20 difference in base game price as it lets you use the investigators, monsters and tiles from 1st edition.

I'm going to wait for a few news articles before I gripe about the game.

I'm afraid I'll pass. I mean I first started posting on these forums to complain about X-com's app being mandatory. So it would be a bit hypocritical of me if I now went "yay apps! Go cthulhu!"

Mind you It's nice you don't have to have a keeper, but MoM seems like a nice game to be the keeper (killer Gm: "The house is silent. Nothing's happening. All clear. BOO! Moewahahha!")

Also there are games out there (some even by FFG) that outo run themselves without the need for a keeper. Mom isn't that complex. Enter a room, draw a card: it says spawn one monster: draw a monster card , resolve monster actions on the card. Done!

I'm actually wondering if I can reverse engineer this* to use with the old game.

* the minatures and the cards, not the app.

I was hesitant about the Descent App, but it has opened up more options to play as a pure co-op game and rejuvenated the game on our table. I expect the MoM2 app to do the same for this game. The biggest problem with MoM has been the setup - in both time and risk of derailment due to an error. The 2E app should eliminate much of this. Also, I'm pretty excited to find out what new monsters and investigators we'll get in the 2E box. I saw the contents list on a German site and it doesn't look too lean to me for the price.

For those wanting reference: here the thread with the content of the box taken from the German website

For those wanting reference: here the thread with the content of the box taken from the German website

Hum...let's compare that to the MoM 1st ed Core Box Contents:

Rulebook (including the Investigator Guide)

1 Keeper Guide

8 Investigator Figures

24 Monster Figures, consisting of: - 2 Chthonians - 2 Cult Leaders - 6 Cultists - 2 Hounds of Tindalos - 2 Maniacs - 2 Mi-Gos - 2 Shoggoths - 2 Witches - 4 Zombies

1 Ten-sided Die

224 Small Cards, consisting of: - 83 Exploration Cards - 20 Spell Cards - 14 Starting Item Cards - 32 Trait Cards - 12 Lock Cards - 7 Obstacle Cards - 35 Mythos Cards - 21 Trauma Cards

126 Bridge-sized Cards, consisting of: - 65 Combat Cards - 8 Investigator Character Cards - 25 Event Cards - 13 Keeper Action Cards - 15 Objective Cards

9 Sheets of Punchboard, consisting of: - 15 Map Tiles (1 large, 7 medium, 7 small) - 72 Damage Tokens - 24 Horror Tokens - 24 Monster Tokens - 18 Room Feature Markers - 4 Sample Tokens - 12 Sealed Door Markers - 24 Skill Point Tokens - 24 Status Effect Tokens - 13 Story Choice Markers - 12 Threat Tokens - 6 Time Tokens - 3 Lock Puzzle Setup Tiles - 15 Lock Puzzle Pieces - 23 Rune Puzzle Pieces - 3 Wiring Puzzle Setup Tiles - 15 Wiring Puzzle Pieces

Still not seeing where the Second Edition has $20-$30 worth of more content (even taking the app into consideration).

As a comparison, FFG lists Decent Second Edition with an MSRP of $80 and it has more content than what is in the MoM 2E box (and right now, the app for Descent as an effective price of ZERO). My main point to all of this is that, as a consumer, paying more for less just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

As a comparison, FFG lists Decent Second Edition with an MSRP of $80 and it has more content than what is in the MoM 2E box (and right now, the app for Descent as an effective price of ZERO). My main point to all of this is that, as a consumer, paying more for less just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Well $5 of that $20 is pure inflation (and it's $20, not $20-$30 - MSRP of 1E was always $80, here's someone moaning about it back then: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/565552/mansions-madness-80-and-not-coffin-sized-box )

On top of that - price of plastic has gone up loads in the past five years. And 2E has the exact same numbers of plastic bits as 1E. I appreciate you don't like paying more, but the problem, frankly, is that FFG are nice and when they reprint stuff, they don't up the SRP to account for increasing materials cost. If they did, we'd probably have seen 1E sneak up to $100 over the past five years anyway. The downside of this is when they release a new game, they price it based on the current market conditions, and it's always a big leap from the previous edition for slightly less stuff. Descent 2E was a rip-off compared to what you got in 1E too.

Inflation happens. Materials costs go up. You're always going to get less for the same amount of money every year.

Try to understand the option here wasn't a $80 box with loads of stuff in and no app, or a $100 box with less stuff and an app. It was $100 with less stuff and an app, or a $65 box with loads of stuff but no minis.

I get it...$100 is FFG's new price for "Big Box" games regardless of content. They are free to price their products however they want but that doesn't mean we are not free to voice our concerns that we are not getting the same value for our money and that eventually there will be a breaking point and we will no longer be able to afford to purchase their products. Having to pay $100 just to play a game I already own with an app so I can play it as a 5 player co-op is just a very tall order. They could have at least compromised and allowed people with the 1st ed to use the app via just the conversion kit (or figured out a way to make the app work with the existing product like they did with Descent).

BTW, the cost of producing plastic materials has actually gone up and down over the fast few years as plastic comes from oil but prices are currently in a downward trend thanks to the nosedive in the price of oil over the past year. Also, manufacturing improvments have made producing plastic materials much cheaper than it was even 10 years ago. And prices are expected to fall even more significantly over the next 4 years. But you don't have to take my word on this: http://www.marketplace.org/2016/05/19/sustainability/plastic-glut-poised-flood-global-market

(also, my mentioning of the MoM 2ed being $20-$30 more than First Ed is accounting for the fact that the 2ed has less paper than the 1st ed did...so you can't directly compare the MSRP between the two).

I for one don't usually quibble about the price of a game for number of pieces included - unless it's way off (yeah I'm looking at you, Queen Games' Escape - Curse of the Temple). What also matters is the quality of the product (filet mignon costs more than a top steak, but the quality makes it preferable for me). So if the game experience is great then I'm happy to pay more for a game, as the fun-factor is more than just the sum of a game's parts. Product development and playtesting are just two of the intangibles that you don't hold in your hand, but are "in the box" when you buy a game.

First edition MoM was rife with production errors, had a hugely involved set up time, and sometimes was just plain not fun to play. Second edition has an app and (it looks like) a good deal of content in the box. Plus, FF seems to be going out of their way to roll out a second edition in a way that respects those of us who bought first edition. (Kudos!)

Also, it is worth noting that the box will have more content than we've seen in the pictures so far - FF isn't revealing all the content yet - like all the new plastic monsters (Star Spawn!!!). I'm intrigued and so I have placed my order for a copy today, and look forward to reading the upcoming preview on Monday to see the new investigators and monsters which are going to be included.

I anticipate this will be a hundred bucks well spent. For those who only care about the number of pieces in a game box, all I can say is... don't buy this.

If bits in the box were all that drives price, then with lcgs why do we pay so much for simple cardboard? Because of the R&D behind it that makes it well designed cardboard. If any cardboard would do, id be playing top trumps (which i do anyway) or snap instead.

My point being that while the initial R&D has gone into MoM 1ed, we ha e no idea how long it took them to develop the chamges to the game for 2nd ed, then the integration of the editions, then the app production. Even if the app is based on the decent framework thats only part way, as others have said, look how many pc games are based on, say, the Unreal engine, or Doom3 engine etc but development is still a lot.

We simply dont know the time gone into this and i for one hope/expect that time to result in a good game, so im happy to pay for that. As a collector im very grateful to FFG for making 1st ed stuff usable (they didnt have to).

I still prefer FFGs version of value to Games Workshops.

As always, each to their own opinion and vote with your wallet/purse

Yup, we can't compare the price a game had 5 years ago with the price of a game that's out now. Consider a 3% yearly inflation (that affects mostly everything) and you'll see there's no such a difference. Additionally, there's a thread over BGG where a guy compared the content of Imperial Assault and MoM 2.0 and in the end the difference is a handfull of tokens and something like 4 or 5 minis, whose price moved to the app's cost.

In any case, remember that value and cost are two different things: if the game has for you a value that doesn't justify its cost, simply don't buy it, that's all

The biggest hang up for me with a game like this is being beholden to the app. I'll never be able to break out this game like I can others and just play with the contents of the box without also then needing the app and if for some reason there's an electronic issue of any kind, I'm just left with game components but no purpose.

If anything the app should be supplemental like with Descent. As it is, I don't know if five, ten, twenty years down the line the app will still be around or maintained for me to use with this. Meanwhile, I can play Descent forever.