I just thought I'd start a discussion. We've all talked about the inconsistencies in regimental sizes before. It's an awkward standard, and that just doesn't seem right. After all, the Imperium is nothing if not standardized. Dealing with astronomical numbers of troops, transports, munitions, vehicles, etc., requires some sort of standardization, and the Imperial Guard regiment seems to break that logic. This doesn't make much sense given that the transports that carry them are standardized ships.

I've written this off before as Brits and their regimental thing. British regiments are a recruiting unit. One battalion goes off to war and a cadre stays behind to provide a continual supply of fresh meat for that battalion. But, FFG is located in Minnesota (IIRC). The Brit analogy falls flat.

WWII divisions were a logistical unit. They were standardized to make them easier to supply. Armored and mechanized divisons required about 50% more supply, but this was entirely given over to POL (petroleum, oil, and lubricants). Their manpower was significantly smaller than an infantry division for the same country in question (with the exception of Soviet corps, but those aren't divisions, technically, and much of their variance in organization was due to their shortage of motorized transport). Divisions weren't operational fighting units. That job was given to brigades (kampgruppen, regimental combat teams, etc.). Incidentally, this same operational unit holds true back through the days of early gunpowder, medieval periods, and even ancient times. Apparently, no matter how much room they took up on the battlefield, operational units tended to number a few thousand. I'm sure it has something to do with the command and control capability of a single person in charge (with a staff, of course).

The reason I'm bringing all this up because the barracks component would be a pretty standardized addition to a ship. Sure, it varies in size according to the size of the ship it is installed in, but there still needs to be a range of small to large that it fits within.

Thoughts?

We've all talked about the inconsistencies in regimental sizes before. It's an awkward standard, and that just doesn't seem right. After all, the Imperium is nothing if not standardized. Dealing with astronomical numbers of troops, transports, munitions, vehicles, etc., requires some sort of standardization, and the Imperial Guard regiment seems to break that logic. This doesn't make much sense given that the transports that carry them are standardized ships.

I don't think I can agree with this conclusion.. For starters, I doubt the ships that carry IG regiments are standardised. Sure, there might be a degree of standardisation in ships of the same class (although even there I would not expect 100% consistency -- different shipyards may all deviate slightly, similar to the M4 Sherman tanks in WW2), but over the millennia, I'm sure the Imperium has employed much more than just one class of transport with which to ferry its troops.

Indeed, going by GW's Battlefleet Gothic, many Imperial transports are actually civilian merchantmen pressed into service to support some nearby war effort. Similar to how most threats are countered by the Imperial Guard raising ground troops from nearby worlds, it seems the Imperial Navy covers part of the logistical aspect of the war effort by "raising" space ships from nearby trade lanes.

Also, it sounds as if you might be putting the cart before the horse. Lack of size standardisation for Guard regiments is a necessary evil to equalise fighting strength on the battlefield, so the Navy has to find a way to make it work. Not that this should be a problem, anyways: If a single transport is not enough to carry a regiment, just send two ships instead. This may be more important for GW's version of the setting than FFG's, though, as the ships are bigger "here" and thus presumably can carry more troops, too.

Oh, and the Imperium is so incredibly not -standardised, it doesn't even have a universal currency, a universal tech-level, or a universal language.

The reason I'm bringing all this up because the barracks component would be a pretty standardized addition to a ship. Sure, it varies in size according to the size of the ship it is installed in, but there still needs to be a range of small to large that it fits within.

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking for there to be several sizes of barracks components instead of one? Why couldn't you simply install the same component multiple times?

I left it at 20,000 troops (or space equivalent for vehicles) and called it a day. And I think Errant was talking about the size discrepancies in the ships, combined with their space available. I'm not a math wiz, but it has been mentioned in the forums that putting a barracks component on a raider ship is vastly smaller than one on a cruiser, even though the rules state otherwise.

Take that back. I house ruled the barracks component houses 20,000 troops, though I never stipulated the basic size of a regiment. I ball parked it from 2,000 - 20,000 thousand, due to the issues Lynata mentioned. Some worlds could raise and equip 20,000 normal IG infantry regiments, while others could raise and equipment 2,000 medival swordsman. Never really delved into this dilema as it was not to relevant.

I'm certain ships deviate within their class. That happens in our world with ships of the same class when they are built by different shipyards. I'm not even certain people from all over the Imperium use the same ruler, so I'm not talking identical, just standardized. I'm equally sure that the Imperium has used more than a few classes of troop transports. There are probably at least 5000 sectors in the Imperium, each with shipyards. And saying that most Imperial transports are really repurposed merchantmen doesn't really change a thing. Those merchantment are the very item I think are standardized, and again I don't mean identical.

As far as standardization in general goes, there can't be a standardized language. The darn things evolve too fast. There can't be a standardized currency. Scarcity determines value and any attempt to fix prices only results in a stronger black market.

I can't buy the fighting equivalency argument, either. That's far too nebulous a quality. I can't even go with numbers, as Nameless suggests. The difference between 2,000 and 20,000 is an order of magnitude, and a formation of armor with 20,000 fighting men could conceivably contain thousands of AFVs, and it's patently absurd to think that a couple infantry divisions have the same space and support requirements as a couple armored divisions. I've always used logistical measurements in my games. A combat battalion requires at least a battalion of service personnel supporting it, so I just give a barracks component the capability to support a given number of combat battalions. A battalion of infantry contains about 1000 soliders. A battalion of Leman Rus tanks probably only has about 30 tanks. The latter requires more support vehicles, though the former is no slouch in that department, and this is rarely recognized in what little of the literature I've read.

The one common unit we have from GW sources is the company. Even that varies a lot, but its variations are less than an order of magnitude in difference, so it's a starting point.

Yes, in the end, this question probably stays in the realm of the abstract, but I was wondering what other methods people had come up with. I like the idea of RT Dynasties supporting ground wars, and ground wars aren't fought by a mere IG regiment or two. That wouldn't even provide an occupation police force for a single hive.

I totally agree on the equivalency being extremely nebulous, but it's the best way the Imperium can achieve a certain degree of standardisation with the very difference in orders of magnitude you mentioned, and the nebulousness fits well to how the Imperium handles other aspects of its tithe. Some worlds will be incapable of raising armored formations because they cannot build and/or operate AFVs, for example, so what the Munitorum does is to say "okay, then just give us more infantry".

The Imperial Guard also operates no proper logistics companies -- they don't even have a field hospital, that's entirely left to the Orders Hospitaller -- so a lot of what you'd expect from a modern army simply doesn't exist in 40k, or at least not in most sources. A Leman Russ really only needs its crew, and maybe an Enginseer as part of the company staff; that's it. Gather a few of them into a company, gather a few of these companies, there's your regiment. It's incredibly simplistic, but at the same time, so was warfare in the Napoleonic era.

That doesn't mean that a regiment of 10,000 troops will occupy the same space as a regiment of 200 tanks, although I would say it's close enough to be dismissed as a consequence of abstraction. If you really do feel you wanna come up with additional rules to better distinguish this, though, I'd say just implement some sort of "regimental modifier" where troop type and equipment/training standards are factored in as multipliers:

Infantry: x1

Mechanised: x1.5

Armour: x0.5

Artillery: x0.5

Conscript: x2

Trained: x1

Elite: x0.66

So in essence, your Barracks Component would be able to carry, for example:

50% of a conscript infantry regiment (Valhallan Ice Warriors)

50% of a trained armour regiment (Armageddon Steel Legion)

100% of an elite mechanised regiment (Cadian Shock Troopers)

and so on.

Ah, so the "fighting strength" thing is a matter of tithes, then? I can see that. But I can't see the IG not having support units. I recalled and looked up a Chimera variant called the Samaritan, that the wiki refers to as "the Imperial Guard's medical companies'...ambulance." It does mention the Hospitallers, though, as the personnel that make up the staff of the field hospitals.

The IG MUST have someone that brings up power packs, and stubber rounds, and Earthshaker rounds, and..., and... . Nothing less would work, so they must exist. I've seen some cool photos of command and communications vehicles people have custom-kitted on the internet, so I figured they must exist somewhere in the fan faction, even if the more popular authors have ignored their existence (Shermans are just more interesting than Duece-and-a-halfs).

And that Leman Rus can't operate with just a crew. It needs an ammunition vehicle (Chimera > Trojan IIRC), and every company or maybe battalion has an armored recovery vehicle, and a command vehicle, and a communications vehicle, and all these need further supports further up the chain.

Now I'm not trying to pick a fight. Your numbers are actually fairly close to what I'm currently working with when all the calculating is done, which just goes to show that these things are easily overthought. I would mention, though, that your mechanized formations are different than mine. I find that mech infantry has the greatest number of vehicles, and the most cumbersome logistical train, moreso than any other formation.

I'm glossing over the numbers a bit more - haven't really written down the detailed modifiers, but they're not too different in practice. In general, I assume a Barracks component to hold a single professional and well-equipped infantry regiment, which I guestimated at around 10'000 men, and their supplies, support and command staff, and landing craft. Vehicles reduce that accordingly - my players have 1/5th of that filled with Elysian-ish troops trained in ship combat, drop operations, led by Stormtroopers and equipped with Valkyries, Vultures, Drop Sentinels and Tauros. The rest is mechanised infantry with Sentinels and Chimeras. They're also taking care to select laser weaponry for most of their troops to cut on supplies, which I like. With room taken away for all these vehicles (and especially the Valkyries and Vultures), I estimate only about 5000 actual infantry, elysian or otherwise.

I'm considering allowing light cruisers and up to hold two regiments per component. It just doesn't seem to add up otherwise.

My players don't really do protracted campaigns, though - they do use their troops in reasonably small amounts or for a single major assault so far, possibly with direct support from their ship. For a longer campaign, I'd expect them to establish a forward base and establish supply chains first, or before long, heavy bolter rounds and Hellstrike missiles will run dry. Possibly a ship that actually lands, with a Munitorum (or just Cargo Holds filled with supplies) and several companies worth of logistical support, or just a lot of landers. Of course, supply chains need protection, landers need air superiority...

Frankly, when you're at the point that your players are waging a full-scale war and bring an appropriately diverse fighting force, I'd just assume the logistics is part of the entire force, and gloss over it once they actually established the forward base and secured the supply chain. If they don't have an appropriately diverse fighting force, the logistics makes an excellent hook to drive them into panic once the enemy starts attacking it.

Ah, so the "fighting strength" thing is a matter of tithes, then?

Sort of, but also to inform an Imperial Guard general of what a regiment might be expected to pull off. It's a sort of standardisation where a staff officer can just go and say "okay, I need one regiment here, one there, and two over there", rather than first having to consult each regiment's battle roll, equipment listing, and the Commissar's reports to get a rough idea of how they might perform.

This aspect concerns infantry regiments moreso than armour or artillery, though, as the latter are generally broken apart and then assigned to support the infantry. As such, for armour and artillery, it really is just about the tithe, I think. The strategic aspect is about acknowledging that you'll only need X Cadians for a job that you'd need Z Valhallans to do otherwise.

As for hypothetical support companies, they just flat-out don't exist in GW's version of the setting -- except in the form of wagon trains made up of forced labour and potential sons and daughters born along over the course of a regiment's 25 years of service to the Emperor, who are assigned duties that would otherwise fall into the purview of dedicated support elements.

That doesn't mean that you should feel forced to follow this interpretation, however. Forgeworld's Army Books seem to depict an image of the Imperial Guard that is much closer to contemporary military standards, and apparently this is where that "Samaritan" is from, too. This wiki has some more information on it and also mentions "medical companies", which sounds like it would suit your preferences!

I would mention, though, that your mechanized formations are different than mine. I find that mech infantry has the greatest number of vehicles, and the most cumbersome logistical train, moreso than any other formation.

I admit, I mostly pulled those numbers out of my arse, even though I did think about them a bit. That being said, and even though we disagree on the topic of logistics, I would point out that the x1.5 multiplier would make mechanised regiments larger / have them require more space than any other type!

Feel free to change those numbers, though, it was really just a quick idea to get people started with something I think might just work.

The medical companies usually comprise the fifth section of an Imperial Guard regiment's headquarters staff. The fifth section of the regiment's staff operations deals in personnel matters, tables of organisation and equipment (TO&E), troop strength reports, and the requisitioning of replacement troops.

Thanks for the link. This makes me wonder what those other 4 sections are, though.

I will guess

1. Intelligence and Security

2. Signal

3. Operations & Planning

4. Training

Indeed, if one wanted to organise the Imperial Guard among more contemporary military standards, the Colonel & retinue should probably have their own company rather than just their own platoon.

I will guess

1. Intelligence and Security

2. Signal

3. Operations & Planning

4. Training

Of course, one must keep in mind that there is no division level, so the regiment must have the services. I have a fairly recent IG Codex and it doesn't address any of these sections. In fact, it mostly focuses on company organization and that's fluid.

So yes, Intel and Security might be one of those sections. This might include a staff dedicated to collating data and passing it along to higher echelons, an organic recon element, and an MP detachment of something less than platoon size.

A Signals section is almost a necessity, but they might be part and parcel of the former section given that specialized vehicles with radio (and radar, ladar, cryptography, etc.) stations are included. That is to so say, both data gathering and data transmission might be inherent in the same vehicles.

Ops & Planning might be part of Ordnance, Maintenance, and QM, but those are absolutely necessary, so I'd give them their own section.

I can't see a section for Training, not that it isn't needed. Given the ad hoc nature of the IG troops either come with built-in training (Death World, Hiver Gangs, etc.), or they get it from their comrades, or they get it on the field (graduates of the School of Hard Knocks).

The one critical section that seems to be missing is engineering. I can't see calling for a Tech Priest every time a rockrete bunker needs to be poured, let alone the fields of mines or miles of razor wire that need to be laid. In fact, I'd think that regiments are short enough on tech priests that they wouldn't be calling in one every time they need to blast roads through forests and mountains or throw up pre-fab bridges. Even bridges built from scratch shouldn't require a tech priest.

And mind you, this doesn't include the Ministorum priests, AdMech tech priests, psykers, astropaths, commissars, and Departmento Munitorum adepts that seem to accompany many regiments. Those last are indispensible, especailly if maintenance and support elements aren't organic, as Lynata has suggested (I really don't see meals being very regular this way, though, and that's rough on morale). The whole system seem jury-rigged and my suspension of disbelief is stressed to the limit to think this would all work on a galactic scale.

The whole system seem jury-rigged and my suspension of disbelief is stressed to the limit to think this would all work on a galactic scale.

Indeed I would assume that an Imperial Guard unit has to face a lot of "unnecessary" hardships due to the haphazard way they are organised, but I see this as part of the setting. And I don't see the Cadian model to be the standard.

Remember, the Imperial Guard has to account for all sorts of troops raised from all sorts of worlds -- including Feral world warriors who call their lasguns "deathlights" and hold great scarring ceremonies to celebrate their kids killing their first Ork. The 40k Compendium actually has a neat short story following a Probitor-ranked member of a Guard regiment through his first battle and subsequent promotion to Guardsman, where he's happy he won't have to pull kitchen duty anymore.

Let us also remember the Roman Legions which were quite successful in warfare without a dedicated engineering company, instead placing suitably skilled officers in command of construction teams temporarily pulled from the ranks of ordinary soldiers.

To me, this is what the Imperial Guard is all about - a wild, crazy mix of all eras, with Roman style engineering, Napoleonic logistics, Medieval religion, Modern ranks and Sci-Fi guns. Not just the equivalent of the US Army with lasers. It's not perfect, of course, but then neither is the bloated organisation of contemporary militaries which has become so dependent on vulnerable supply lines -- which would be difficult if not impossible to maintain in the 41st millennium.

I do believe many fortifications are prefabricated and dropped into place, iirc. As for the digging of trenches and laying of wire, I wrote it off as the IG taking a page from the Roman Legions of old and performing the bulk of the manual labor themselves. Construction is relatively simple to teach the basics of, and a single tech-priest can direct the construction of a bridge or defensive fortifications in the cases where they need to be made of local or salvaged materials rather than something prefabbed and brought in.

Training could follow a similar methodology, with replacements (local conscriptions when replacements from the homeworld aren't available, going with Roman practices again as they seem to fit the best with the spotty IG supply chain for recruits) being trained by their units according to regiment standards if/when necessary to replace losses. That being said, I see the Adeptus Munitorium simply tithing regiments and feeding them to the grinder, cannibalizing the scraps of lost regiments into veteran units or using them as the skeleton to build a new regiment around.

The idea that a regiment is grouped by combat strength is one that appeals to logic and cannon, and certainly explains the difference between a 10k-man Valhallan regiment and a 3K-man Cadian shock regiment. In my games, I take force organization seriously, working with my players to develop a realistic force organization chart based on the style of organization (apologies for the repetition) that best fits their vision of that particular unit. I have had civil-war/Napoleonic style groups of 100-man "lines" as a squad-level unit, grouped into ten-line "squares" and ten-square "grids" (nine battle plus one command) with las-locks and bayonets. This particular army also included units of shield-men equipped with what was basically an up-armored Arbites riot shield and a heavy single-shot laspistol my players coined the "blunderblaster". Coming from a world of mostly salt flats, where battle lines stretch for miles and the tech level is struggling to maintain at a low imperial level, having 100k-man regiments makes sense, especially when taking into mind the kind of casualties artillery can inflict. My players whined when I made them equip an additional barracks space in their transport or face a -25 morale (50k in the 4 space allocated to barracks, the other 50k crammed into storage areas and crew housing at -5 per 10k of overcrowding) and -15 crew rating (-2 per 10k overcrowding and -5 from low morale) for the duration of the transport. I also made the soldiers roll weekly for void dementia and doubled the rate of loss from failure, converting them into ship lice at a 3/5 ratio (yes, I track the population of mutants and warp-freaks in the bowels of my player's ships. Few things make me as happy as a ship trying to go Pandorum on an unsuspecting RT). When it came time to test the regiment in battle, they suffered such atrocious losses from their outdated tactics that the 100,000 men, 20,000 cavalry and 1,200 artillery pieces barely managed to hold off a force of 15k lost & damned cultists and mutants similar to what is found in the Imperial Armour Siege of Vraks supplement for three weeks of fighting over the spaceport of an agri-world, taking something like 80% casualties iirc.

On the other end of the spectrum, I have had a player go with a mechanized infantry regiment where a squad was equal to the carrying capacity of their chosen transport (chimeras at the start, eventually rhinos). With three to one organization it came out to 3400-odd troops and 90 something transport vehicles, including command elements. With four to one organization it came out to 4800ish troops and 140 vehicles, but I relabeled it as a reinforced regiment. My RT spent the first six game months of his first campaign training and equipping this regiment while waiting for his captured pirate raider to be overhauled, and they ended up with what was essentially kasyrkin armor by another name, hellguns, chainswords, and upgraded crew-served & vehicle weapons (swapping heavy bolters for autocannon, taking lascannon on some vehicles and issuing a meltagun to every squad) before they ever saw combat. When they finally got around to shooting something, they made quick work of the rebel governor's forces, numbering some 200k conscripts and 40k regulars, in a series of running battles (their mobility allowed them to avoid the main body of troops, never taking on more than about 10k at a time). Yes, they were house troops, yes they had limited air support and the help of the RT's command buffs and deathstar gang of wonderbuddies, but that 5k man unit proved that it could perform reliably against twice their number of stock IG (or equivalent) troops, and three or four times that number of conscript troops. When the RT finally accumulated enough clout to equip them all with normal-human-sized bolters, rhinos, carapace personal shields with a field rating of 5 and an overload of 20 (small shield similar to a medieval heater shield with a low power rating and high reliability, good for fending off bayonet charges and reducing casualties from las weapons) and 2 special weapons per squad, I counted them as three regiments for the purposes of balancing enemies. When they deployed with the armor detachment of 90 battle tanks and 40 artillery pieces, I counted them as six regiments and still ran into balancing problems, as the casualties inflicted by artillery proved a huge force equalizer. My RT was also fond of forming the tanks into a line and tank-shocking entire battalions if they did not have effective anti-armor or heavy vehicles of their own, usually killing hundreds and never failing to rout the survivors. With a tank "regiment" of 300ish vehicles, it is plausible that he could pull that trick off against groups of many thousands of infantry, if the terrain was favorable.

I have come to the conclusion that regiments are similar to money in that they are what you (and your central bank) say they are, and what you can do with them. 300 tanks can mow down 5k unsupported infantry (or more) on the open field while 10k conscripts will struggle to survive an engagement with 3.5k cadian shock troopers, but all of them can be called regiments and used accordingly in battle plans. Supply issues, however, are another matter...

As I've said before Lynata, I'm not up on the fan fiction, but I take your word on the fluff. You're well read on the subject. I'm not arguing, though, what 40K authors have said on the subject, but what will and will not work, regardless what an author of fiction has written. Napoleonic logistics will not easily work and its failures will be spectacular. I recall one of Napoleon's QMs stating of the 1813 campaign, "He let 100,000 men starve in Saxony." And mind you, Saxony was a province pretty rich in agriculture. Foraging would only work on a fairly densely populated human-inhabited agricultural world, and even a small army would have to be constantly on the move, and the effects on that world would be davastating. In other words, it could only happen in a defensive campaign, and that camapaign might make it likely that this method could never be used again for a century or more. Yes, I do believe Guard commanders would make that decision, as I believe they would let millions starve after making silly decisions, but I just don't think the random factors will align often enough to make that supply method something common. People require a certain minimal amount of food and water to stay alive, they can't forage for it, and they can't carry enough, nor can a wagon train without chains of depots. Also, one of the points of the discussion (at least for me) is to come up with methods that RT dynasties can use to successfully prosecute a war, and that means not letting millions of guardsmen starve.

Any discussion of Roman methods is problematic. Rome existed for well over 1000 years and its methods changed drastically in that time. One thing did not. Romans did not have "spotty supply chains" and the few times they did resulted in the loss of their entire force (e.g. Teutobergerwald and Carrhae, not to mention some Armenian campaigns), only reinforcing my argument that foraging doesn't work. Roman armies on the defensive relied on their excellent road system, which was laid out by Roman engineers. Yes, the legions supplied some of the labor, but most often local were conscripted for that work, though this last point really doesn't matter. On the offensive, Romans most often stuck to the coast and resupplied by fleet. If they did move inland, it was usually only after stockpiling (and fortifying) magazines, and setting up chains of depots. And while the grunt work of laying wire and mines and roads and bridges can be performed by common soldiers, it's best laid out by a professional. And yes, I expect someone will tell me that IG wire and mines are laid in a haphazard fashion, ignoring proper fields of fire, and that their roads snake through the countryside with complete inefficiency, and that their bridges constantly collapse under the weight of vehicles, and I believe you, but this isn't how my players approach warfare. They've spent XP on elite advances in Tactica Imperialis and other skills and have those skills at high numbers. They don't want me to tell them that their first 3 expeditions vanished without a trace. Mind you I still sometimes do that, but when they take command of the next expedition themselves they expect their subordinates to watch and learn. And I don't this unreasonable.

Keeper151, that sounds like a blast, but again my players would just never do such a thing. Even now in the campaign, they are back in Calixis travelling from system to system recruiting soldiers and specialists, and acquiring vehicles to equip 2 more mech infantry regiments and 1 armored. They just won't field hordes of weshwesh. It's not their style. They want Baneblades. Hell, they want Titans but I won't let them have those no matter what they roll.

And while 3K Cadians might be the equivalent of 10K conscripts those conscripts still eat 10/3 of the food those Cadians eat, which just means that sending in hordes of ill-equipped and untrained weshwesh is foolish since they have the same supply requirements as well-equipped and well-trained soldiers. Sure, there's times that warm bodies just need to be fed into the meat grinder, but given time and resources, it's best to make them ready for the fight. It's more efficient.

I do believe many fortifications are prefabricated and dropped into place, iirc.

Now that you mention it, I recall reading something similar -- or rather even that entire garrisons can get dropped off. I think GW actually sold a model for that once?

Dawn of War (the first/best one ) may be silly to take inspiration from in most cases, but when it comes to constructing buildings, I could actually see that work.

Also, your game sounds incredibly fun! Great description of how you run things.

Napoleonic logistics will not easily work and its failures will be spectacular. I recall one of Napoleon's QMs stating of the 1813 campaign, "He let 100,000 men starve in Saxony." And mind you, Saxony was a province pretty rich in agriculture. Foraging would only work on a fairly densely populated human-inhabited agricultural world, and even a small army would have to be constantly on the move, and the effects on that world would be davastating.

I think this may again be a matter of setting interpretation: I wouldn't necessarily compare the worlds in 40k to 19th century Europe. The way Imperial planets in this setting are classified would all offer different means of alleviating the issue. If the Imperial Guard is invading a Feral or Feudal planet, for example, the campaign should be rather swift in terms of breaking the opposition. If it is invading an Agri-world, there should be food aplenty anyways. If it is invading an Industrial or a Hive world, there will be storehouses with processed food to requisition.

It is also worth pointing out that Saxony at that time was ridden by typhus, so bad that it was on the brink of economic and demographic collapse, which had of course impacted that district's capability to even utilise its rich farmlands. If an army could not usually be fed by local means, smart generals like Napoleon would have ceased this style of warfare much, much earlier.

Note that I'm just looking for a way to make things work, mind you -- looking for excuses to justify how things were explained. I'm aware that it may not add up entirely , I just want to bring it far enough to make it functional on the same level of "suspension of disbelief" that I need to accept psyker powers, chainswords or Orks.

Roman armies on the defensive relied on their excellent road system, which was laid out by Roman engineers. Yes, the legions supplied some of the labor, but most often local were conscripted for that work, though this last point really doesn't matter.

The Imperial Guard seems to do this on the offense as well, at least if the Invasion of Fenris is anything to go by:

"Despite the poor conditions, the troops of Bucharis were enraged at the loss of so many of their compatriots and vowed to destroy the Space Wolves. Any Fenrisian captured was put to work supplying the Guardsmen and laying out makeshift roads across the glacial flats. Though they were enslaved, the Fenrisians were not to be kept down easily. Several regiments of Imperial Guardsmen were kept out of the fighting to keep the slaves from revolting."

-- 2E C:SoB

it seems the Imperial Navy covers part of the logistical aspect of the war effort by "raising" space ships from nearby trade lanes.

The Administratum controls merchant fleet elements, but Trading Charters invariably have a provision allowing them to be dragooned by the Munitorium for anything from running a regiment from A to B to hauling torpedo reloads. There are dedicated troop transport ships (like the Galaxy class) much like 'Armed Freighters'. All of these remain Administratum ships whilst they do this, but are placed under local command of the Navy.

In Rogue Trader terms, another reason that the 'Rogue' bit applies is that whilst Chartist Traders are subject to this, ships which operate under a Warrant of Trade usually aren't. Meaning a Rogue Trader helps in a warzone entirely under his own terms. Which, as you might imagine, makes him immensely annoying to any navy flag officers, especially if he's got a powerful capital ship or serious transport capacity at his disposal.

As for hypothetical support companies, they just flat-out don't exist in GW's version of the setting -- except in the form of wagon trains made up of forced labour and potential sons and daughters born along over the course of a regiment's 25 years of service to the Emperor, who are assigned duties that would otherwise fall into the purview of dedicated support elements.

The support echelons aren't integral to the Guard. That's the Departmento Munitorium. That's their job - they own the armoury worlds, the freighters (either permanently or on an as needed basis), the landing fields and the cargo-10 drivers who connect the fields to the quartermasters at forward depots where they hand stuff over to the guard regiment (once it's signed for with a correct form 567-908-XCC/a, of course) to ship to the front however the hell they manage it.

Now that you mention it, I recall reading something similar -- or rather even that entire garrisons can get dropped off. I think GW actually sold a model for that once?

Dawn of War ably illustrated the Imperium's extravagant waste and inefficiency rather well, I think, when it comes to prefabricated buildings. I love when the IG's plasma generators come down on 2 retrojets. The jets are apparently one-shot devices. I have a picture in my mind of a battlefield with ludicrous amounts of machinery left on it afterwards. Crazy stuff.

Well, when some of their battles take longer to win, or lose, than we've been a country, I'd imagine some of that junk must get stripped down for parts. IG stuff certainly isn't as ramshackle as Orks, but they need patches, armor plates, and such, same as everyone else, who plans to stick it out.

Well, when some of their battles take longer to win, or lose, than we've been a country, I'd imagine some of that junk must get stripped down for parts. IG stuff certainly isn't as ramshackle as Orks, but they need patches, armor plates, and such, same as everyone else, who plans to stick it out.

Alternatively, I'm sure the locals will appreciate the salvage.

Yeah, but when you say "stripped down for parts" I'm picturing people using pieces of metal as, well, pieces of metal. I still don't get the impression that the Imperium knows how to actually build anything. They just input the proper command phrase into the manufactorum, erm...what I meant to say is that they recite the sacred scriptures and the manufactorum converts the holy sacrificial scraps into something more useful. Techpriests and tech servitors can repair stuff, but I'm not sold on their ability to design and manufacture. Still, what little I've read, and certainly the video games I've played do suggest they understand biotech well enough to improvise. I suppose they should be able to improvise in other fields. GW has a fine genre, and many people have extrapolated on their creation, but it's a shame they don't publish some more material themselves for us.

Yeah, but when you say "stripped down for parts" I'm picturing people using pieces of metal as, well, pieces of metal. I still don't get the impression that the Imperium knows how to actually build anything. They just input the proper command phrase into the manufactorum, erm...what I meant to say is that they recite the sacred scriptures and the manufactorum converts the holy sacrificial scraps into something more useful. Techpriests and tech servitors can repair stuff, but I'm not sold on their ability to design and manufacture. Still, what little I've read, and certainly the video games I've played do suggest they understand biotech well enough to improvise. I suppose they should be able to improvise in other fields. GW has a fine genre, and many people have extrapolated on their creation, but it's a shame they don't publish some more material themselves for us.

I have to agree with this view of the 40k setting with very little new designs, for major things.

Yep you might see a "new" slug thrower but an advance vehicle.. nope

Much like how Battletech was prior to the mass tech explosion that followed 3050 and the Clans arrival

I'm sure on the upper echelons of society and within the ordered masses of the Imperial Adepta, construction is very much focused on automated processes or (depending on the item) manufacture based on millennia-old blueprints. But the further you go down towards the common people, the dregs on the street, the more they'd have to rely on improvisation and dirty workshops. Ain't no Tech-Priest visiting the slums of the Underhive.

Coincidentally, the Necromunda rulebook has a bit of fluff about underhive workshops and criminal gunsmiths. Bits of core GW studio fluff can be found here and there ... they're just not easy to find at all, often "locked away" in decades-old issues of White Dwarf or decommissioned web sites you can nowadays reach only by visiting the internet archive, if at all.

Personally, for Regiments, I use what's given in the Core Rulebook, 500~1000 men. Alternatively, I'd say look at Battlefleet Koronus, pg 125 of the book, 129 of .pdf