Ok, there's a nice thread about how the ultramarines get no love in 40k. (Picking a color scheme that doesn't remind people of the smurfs might help, guys! Just sayin'...) As irt went on it began to gradually mutate or warp into a discussion of alliances in the 40k universe. (Maybe some **** tyranids got into it and began contaminating the thread's DNA with mutagens, or chaos cultists began letting the warp in...)

In any event, rather then threadjack another guys thread, which does unintentionally happen now and then without offense being meant, it became clear the thread was leaving it's intended topic, so to be respectful I decided to start a separate thread on alliances in 40k.

The big bone of contention ("Bone of contention". I'm surprised that isn't an actual piece of wargear in 40k yet...) was some bit about the blood angels and the necrons (!!!) teaming up to exterminate some tyranids, and this wasn't fanboy fic, this was official GW (Spit!) printed material.

So yeah, some discourse was made re hoe iw should be impossible for the Imp to deal with xenos, given the whole "Suffer not the xenos to live!" and "the xenos commits the crime of existence!" rhetoric it spews constantly for the masses to believe. (0r else.)

But then again even in 40k's universe there is a certain degree of reality. And occasionally rhetoric has to take a back seat to reality if you're going to survive, let alone become a power bloc in the galaxy. I'm sure way up in the echelons of the imp the high lords and those near them know some more of human history than the masses get to. They know that early on the eldar frequently warned humanity of certain things they should not poke at and certain places they should not go lest terrible things be unleashed. Naturally humanity never listened to the eldar and went charging straight in, and usually suffered terrible consequences as a result. So, the high lords and their close minions know, the edlar have actually given humanity advice it should have heeded. So maybe not all xenos are all bad all the time despite the pap they feed the masses.

I'm sure the HLoT have listened to eldar wisdom on occasion and possibly even acted on it. Not for public consumption, of course. And yes you can't really completely trust the eldar as they'd rather see an entire human world burn than have an eldar stub his toe 2,000 years later. Still, there have been times...

Likewise when survival is on the line sometimes you have to be pragmatic if you're going to survive to say "Praise the emperor!" again. When the tyranids are coming to devour your world to make more hive ships so they can get stronger and devour more of your worlds and the eldar are offering to help defeat them, even if for their own reasons, you probably take their help. Even if the eldar benefit in some way. Ditto for the tau. Hell, I could see an ork human alliance in the face of the tyranids. I think orks like humans more than tyranids, humans are orks favorite enemies. Fighting them is more fun that fighting the bugboys. Likewise orks are a colossal green pain in humanities's collective ass but they've lived with them for like 10,000 years. That's more than is possible with the bugs. IG and orks fighting against the nids collectively? Yeah I could see that.

I still have a problem swallowing the whole blood angels/necron team-up against the nids, but in deathwatch it was made clear that the nids are a threat to the necrons even if not exactly how or why. But clearly at least one necron dynasty has had it's living metal ass severely chewed on by the nids. (I would love to see more on how/why the nids are a threat to a non biological race. We had a thread on it discussing possibilities but no solid answers.)

even discounting the blood angel/necron thing there are several species i could see the Imp allying with no matter how reluctantly.

There are several factions in 40k who seem to exist for more than just fighting and destroying everything. Many are just about nothing but total destruction like the nids, who just kill, eat, evolve, grow, repeat. Chaos seems to exist to destroy everything it can. But still other factions have more on their minds, occasionally, than killing and destroying.

Given a chance humans will pursue creative courses. Building civilization, creating art, science, culture, etc. Enjoying things if life like cooking, family, sports and just plain having some fun.

Eldar are obviously interested in art, culture, etc, and mainting these things when and how they can.

Tau would, given the chance, do all they could for the greater good and to build and improve their society.

Hell, even an ork occasionally likes something besides a good fight. Orks will from time to time take off to enjoy "da fina fings in life." like a good long drink session at the brew house, a nice squig steak, a game of cards with his buddies, a belch/fart contest, maybe even a good race around the town in their buggies once in a while with a few teef bet on the outcome.

So there are factions that at least occasional want to do more than kill and destroy, and maybe they can occasionally work together to survive.

Alliances with chaos are pretty hard to swallow. The iron warriors are one of the more reasonable, intelligent factions but even they hate the imperium with a cold passion. I don't really see chaos and the imperium, or anyone, allying much, as chaos by it's nature can't keep it's **** word on anything. I could kind of see chaos coming to the aid of an imperial world, tho. Say the imperium abandoned a world in the face of the tyranids and the people are terrified, betrayed and at their lowest. Ok, so chaos pops up with an "offer". Chaos forces show up to 'save' the world and the populace spits on the Imp and joins chaos. It could and probably does happen. I mean, the nids may be the best recruitment tool chaos ever had if chaos plays it right. "So, you were loyal to the emperor for centuries, and what happens? The tyranids show up and your imperium cuts and runs out on you, leaving you to be consumed. Hmm, are you sure loyalty to the corpse emperor is such a good thing? If you want to be saved, we're here now, and we'll give you the same deal the imperials did: Pledge loyalty to us and we'll protect you, unlike the imperials who've left you to be eaten by a ho0rde of bugs. What say you?"

So you might have IG and chaos units fighting bugs, but that would be more a defection from the imperium than an alliance.

Anyway, what alliances can you see happening in deathwatch, since this is a deathwatch board? How would you justify them? What would you consider going to far?

Good thread; I suppose this is a topic that deserves its own discussion.

Personally, I wouldn't say that "alliances with Xenos are impossible, full stop" -- but rather that it depends very much on who is standing on either side of the table. The vast majority of Imperial forces are too indoctrinated, too proud and/or too distrustful to consider such a pact, whereas a lot of aliens may likewise consider the Imperium too unstable and unpredictable. Indeed, given how fractured it can sometimes act between all those Inquisitors, semi-sovereign Chapter Masters and planetary nobles lording over border worlds, you may as well toss a coin to guess whether they're going to want to talk with or shoot at you.

For FFG's version of the Deathwatch, things are fortunately a lot easier, or at the very least allow for a wide range of interpretation without anyone really being able to discount something as "false". Here, the Deathwatch is an independent organisation and pretty much manages itself with a remit and degree of independence usually seen only in the Inquisition. All it would take for an alliance with aliens would be to have the right leader at the right time and in the right place. So I'd posit it actually comes down to the Chapter your individual Marine is from! For example, a Black Templar is quite probably going to be a lot less open to an alliance with Eldar (PURGE THE WITCHES!) than, say, an Ultramarine would be.

It's kind of a meta-question even, in that the primary decision would have to come from the Kill-team on-site. The combination of Chapters that make up the team will determine not only consensus when it comes to the question at hand, but also whether they feel independent enough from the Watch-Captain's orders to even consider such a drastic call. And then you have the aftermath to ponder about, as the Watch-Captain himself might either approve or condemn that decision, again based on what Chapter they are from. Personal experience probably plays a role as well, especially with veterans who "have seen things" in their time with the Watch.

tl;dr: The Deathwatch here is so special that, just like with the Inquisition, I wouldn't categorically rule anything out, not even Chaos. It just gets more and more unlikely towards that direction, but in the end it comes down to what Chapter you're from.

You could also check the Allies Chart from the tabletop, but by now there are so many different versions that it's pretty hard to assume continuity.

I think the whole point of elite agents with a large degree of autonomy and independence is that they can make decisions that other imperial forces are not allowed to. Again, a minor concession to reality: If something normally unthinkable needs to be done for the good of humanity, you have the. Discretion to do it. if it works out we usually look the other way, chalk it up to the will of the emperor, etc.

If it doesn't work, well you're probably dead already, so facing the boss is not an issue and you know you died doing your best. And if you, deathwatch marine, inquisitor, etc, truly believe in your heart and soul you are doing what is best for the imperium and the emperor's people, YOU DO IT. Humanities welfare is your ultimate preview . If it works out for the best for humanity and some fool burns you as a heretic or a traitor, well, you did your duty and the emperor knows the truth.

In the warrior coven novel it's deathwatch and Eldar who team up. The inquisition actually said "yes" to helping out the eldar in exchange for info on chaos. Of course the question is: "can they be trusted."

Personally If I was an imperial commander, I'd ally with every Blood axe ork I could find, give them the "honor of fighting in the vanguard" (so they are first to fight and get killed )and go look for something to kick ass. Oh and shoot into melee and all that friendly fire stuff. "What? We were just making da fight more exiting for you boyz." (Not sure they'll buy that.)

Now Deathwatch will make common cause with just about anyone if it get's the mission done. The mission is paramount and the end justifies the deed after all.

That said, it's probably not a good idea to bring your new Fire dragon exarch friend back to the watch fortress with you.

Salamander sgt. : "Look guys! I've got a kroot hound! It followed me home, can I keep him? huh? huh?"

Ok, there's a nice thread about how the ultramarines get no love in 40k. (Picking a color scheme that doesn't remind people of the smurfs might help, guys! Just sayin'...) As irt went on it began to gradually mutate or warp into a discussion of alliances in the 40k universe. (Maybe some **** tyranids got into it and began contaminating the thread's DNA with mutagens, or chaos cultists began letting the warp in...)

Nah that's probaly my fault, I'm the chaos god of thread derailment...

I still have a problem swallowing the whole blood angels/necron team-up against the nids, .

Alliances with chaos are pretty hard to swallow. The iron warriors are one of the more reasonable, intelligent factions but even they hate the imperium with a cold passion. I don't really see chaos and the imperium, or anyone, allying much, as chaos by it's nature can't keep it's **** word on anything. I could kind of see chaos coming to the aid of an imperial world, tho. Say the imperium abandoned a world in the face of the tyranids and the people are terrified, betrayed and at their lowest. Ok, so chaos pops up with an "offer". Chaos forces show up to 'save' the world and the populace spits on the Imp and joins chaos. It could and probably does happen. I mean, the nids may be the best recruitment tool chaos ever had if chaos plays it right. "So, you were loyal to the emperor for centuries, and what happens? The tyranids show up and your imperium cuts and runs out on you, leaving you to be consumed. Hmm, are you sure loyalty to the corpse emperor is such a good thing? If you want to be saved, we're here now, and we'll give you the same deal the imperials did: Pledge loyalty to us and we'll protect you, unlike the imperials who've left you to be eaten by a ho0rde of bugs. What say you?"

So you might have IG and chaos units fighting bugs, but that would be more a defection from the imperium than an alliance.

My job here is done

Khorne is pretty trustworthy. As far as chaos gods go ofcourse. just as long as you realise he's gonna kill you sooner or later, not out of betrayal but because he doesn't care where the blood flows from...

Ofcourse there's the whole thing the alpha legion did during the heresy (under xenos advice team up with horus to make sure chaos won so hard it would have destroyed itself) And Lynata isn't a big fan of the HH novels...

There was an old article in an issue of White Dwarf detailing using Kroot mercenaries in Imperial armies (I think this was 4th Ed. or thereabouts). It includes 'colour text' from an Imperial strategist saying something along these lines (based on memory- I'm not going to dig through my collection of WD s to find the exact quote): "Dismiss not the Mercenary out of hand, for their advantages are threefold: they add numbers to your force, they deny those numbers to your enemy, and every xenos killed in your service is one less that you will need to kill later". Or something like that.

There was an old article in an issue of White Dwarf detailing using Kroot mercenaries in Imperial armies (I think this was 4th Ed. or thereabouts). It includes 'colour text' from an Imperial strategist saying something along these lines (based on memory- I'm not going to dig through my collection of WD s to find the exact quote): "Dismiss not the Mercenary out of hand, for their advantages are threefold: they add numbers to your force, they deny those numbers to your enemy, and every xenos killed in your service is one less that you will need to kill later". Or something like that.

Allmost!

It's (if memory serves me right) "Do not dismiss the mercenary out of hand, each one of them is worth 3 of you: One more on your side, one less on their side, and one more worker in your labour camps."

Now let's wait for Lynata to post the correct quote.

btw, a necron lord with a sense of humor and a fair amount of wit: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Trazyn_the_Infinite

Now let's wait for Lynata to post the correct quote.

Hey, I do not have all issues of White Dwarf either ...

Though I'd be curious about the source as well. Alas, without the number of the issue a search is going to be pointless.

It's pretty well known that Kroot have been serving various Inquisitors or Rogue Traders, and probably a bunch of planetary governors in an illegal fashion. From d100 Inquisitor:

"Soon the ferocity of the Kroot warriors came to the attention of Inquisitor Agmar and, with the Ultramarines stretched to the limit in cleansing the last pockets of resistance, the Inquisitor granted them Imperial Sanction and took Yusra and his few remaining warriors into his retinue."

Come to think of it, maybe it was something like this (or exactly this) that Adeptus-B is referring to? No general of the Imperial Guard has the authority to grant Imperial Sanction, but an Inquisitor can. Alternatively, the quoted strategist has been committing heresy by allying with the aliens, and the quote was part of his defence?

The Virtue of Intolerance

Much of the Imperium, led by the religious fervour of the Adeptus Ministorum, believe in the extermination of all aliens, even those that are entirely peaceful species. When the masses are stirred to such fear and fanaticism, they demand destruction over any kind of cooperation or co-existence. This might seem like a harsh measure, but it is an age where ignorance is a virtue and brute force is used to solve a multitude of problems. The dangers of failing to act are too unthinkable to elicit any other response. It has not become this way without reason; most aliens are hostile and devious, and some have proven as ruthless and ambitious as humanity itself. To them, there is no room in the galaxy for the Imperium.

Despite the many xenos dangers across the Imperium, there are those who, in their ignorance or desperation, are willing to make pacts with aliens. Sometimes this is seemingly innocuous: trading to gain advanced technology, hiring brute labour or buying mercenary help. So, concealed within teeming hive worlds, xeno-tech draws high prices in illicit markets, while the carnivorous Kroot have been paid in flesh to fight alongside planetary defence forces. In the Tollovian Cluster, fickle Caradochians are not only tolerated, but allowed to sell their military services to the highest bidder. In this way, many argue, humanity is tainted. After all, accepting a Donorathi amongst our own kind is only a small step away from making open covenant with the Hrud, the Ork, or any of the other foul species that plague the galaxy.

-- 6E TT rulebook

The line "All xenos are evil, they're all out to get you! We're your only defense!" works well in keeping the people ignorant and fearful and obeying the imperium to protect them. Again, all well and good for keeping the masses ignorant, fearful and obedient. Those in higher positions must deal with higher levels of complexity, and it's there where the occasional alliance with Xenos is made.

Also throwing a few million men ito a war against harmless alien special helps drain off surplus population pressures and gains the imperium a new world.

"High" as in Inquisitors, yeah. But in my opinion, if you're just some general, prepare to have a rather serious talk with your regiment's Commissar. Or the Inquisition -- although here it would depend on the individual Inquisitor. Imperial Law certainly suggests a demand for censure, but when the Inquisitor is already used to alliances of convenience with various xenos (most likely the Eldar), chances are they're going to conveniently ignore this transgression.

In the end, "the masses" constitutes about 99% of the Imperium, including the Imperial Guard. If you're part of the ordinary hierarchy, you are expected to follow the rules. The exceptions, the upper 1%, I've already described that in more detail in an earlier post.

I could see cases wwhere a 'mere' general might have the guts and brains to do the right thing despite cconsequences for himself and suddenly he gets promoted. Not always , but I could see it. If he made the right call and was willing to face execution to do what was best for humanity, a wise inquisitor might mark him for promotion. The imperium needs that type.

Sure in most cases the guy who does right gets burned as a heretic, that whole grimdark thing. Occasionally the good guy manages to win one tho. Also a lot of inquisitors evolve over time. I read the Eisenhorn trilogy and it showed how a lot of iinquisitors start out as hardheaded fundamentalists. Those who manage to survive begin to learn the universe isn't as neat, simple, black and white as they were taught in l'il inquisitor school. Many of them grow into 'radicals' over time. Hell, eisenhorn went from a hardcore fundamentalist to a daemonhost using radical over his career...

Ah, I only spotted this now.

Like I said in the other thread, there are good reasons why the Imperium standard policy is "Trust not the xenos". Since humanity started exploring space, alien races have generally fallen into one of two camps: the ones who try to kill humans on sight, and the ones who will try to manipulate or corrupt them for their own ends. Tens of thousands of years of these experiences make for a pretty solid slab of evidence that the Imperial position *should* be one of intolerance towards anything alien, unless they have incredibly good reason to think otherwise.

Sometimes circumstances force a temporary truce or alliance. But none of the aliens can be trusted beyond the needs of the moment. The Eldar and Tau backstab when it suits them, or for no reason discernable (looking at you eldar corsairs).

How about Alliance amongst the xenos? What's the Eldar stance on the Tau and vice versa?

I mean they could get along like a house on fire: They both have advanced tech and hover vehicles, they both don't get along with the imperium and even that caste thing/eldar paths have some similarities.

The Eldar are probably more willing to trust the Tau than the Imperium, simply because the Tau are still somewhat naive/idealistic and not as ruthless as the incredibly pragmatic and xenophobic Imperium. The Tau meanwhile are still trying to make deals with everyone they come across, as this has worked out well for them so far.

Come to think of it, wasn't there some theory about how the Tau have been "uplifted" and are connected to the Eldar in some way?

The Eldar are probably more willing to trust the Tau than the Imperium, simply because the Tau are still somewhat naive/idealistic

Oh boy yes they are! Altough they are learning. But first contact with the 'nids was hilarious.

Tau air caste: "Look! Giant space creatures! I bet they are stellar grazers. Let's go investigate!"

Hyve fleet "OMNOMNOMNOM"

Tau: "Aaaah! Oh no! Why?! Halp!"

I haven't read anything about them being uplifted. And that would sorta go against their stick of "showing up the imperium with natural scientific progress vs the technosupresticous assbackwardsness of the mechanicum."

They (probably) did get their ass saved by Tzeentch when the entire colonisation fleet that was gonna wipe out the Tau (when they only had blackpowder weapons) got lost/destroyed in the warp.

I think they didn't even have blackpowder, they were just a bunch of tribals with pointy sticks. I seem to remember something about the Imperium being puzzled as to how they could evolve into such a highly advanced civilisation in such a short timespan. Especially suspicious if you consider how their caste-base society feels very ... engineered.

In Tau history, the castes (supposedly) just used to be tribes with different attitudes and specialisations, which often warred against one another. Then some day, the Ethereal tribe just went and said "hey, let's unify". Sounds too convenient to me.

And I'm not suspecting daemons or the Warp to be at work, either. According to Games Workshop's Inquisitor game, Tau flat-out don't register to daemons; they're like a whole species of Blanks. Which just increases my suspicion further. It's like someone manipulated them into becoming a perfect weapon against Chaos.

It's ADVENT all over again.

In the end, "the masses" constitutes about 99% of the Imperium, including the Imperial Guard. If you're part of the ordinary hierarchy, you are expected to follow the rules. The exceptions, the upper 1%, I've already described that in more detail in an earlier post.

Yep, this is one of the things that makes Rogue Traders special; they are allowed, even somewhat expected, to deal with xenos scum, and in a manner they see fit, so long as it supposedly helps them, which helps the Imperium they help/which helps them stay afloat. Granted, even some Rogue Traders HATE xeno scum, and will have nothing to do with them, if not kiling them, for the sin of being something other than human, and some Inquisitors have/think they have some authority to curtail the Rogue Trader's power, in their dealings (just one more song and dance ), but I'd think most people, even among the highest-ranking military personnel, would almost be just hard-wired to say "die xenos scum. For the Emperor!", and even a lot of Space Marines will probably do so, if they think they can. Sure, some video games are better about it, some make the Eldar seem almost fantastic, as allies to the IG, or Astartes. till near the end, when they do something sneaky, but I think most Imperial forces would just say NOPE, and the ones who DO make the alliances just say "better to beg forgiveness, than ask permission. If I'm still alive, when this over, I'll be ready to have that chat with the Commissar, or the Inquisitor, come what may. If not, it'll be with the Emperor."

How about Alliance amongst the xenos? What's the Eldar stance on the Tau and vice versa?

I mean they could get along like a house on fire: They both have advanced tech and hover vehicles, they both don't get along with the imperium and even that caste thing/eldar paths have some similarities.

I've often been irritated by this. I have whined, in the past, about how one reason the Imperium has to be so big is that EVERY enemy seems out to get the Imperium, and little else. They rarely seem to fight each other, or ally with the Imperium, and if the Imperium wasn't so big, it wouldn't have the resources, when it does, to fight off so many different foes, simultaneously. Having whined that, I am often surprised at the fact that so many of the alien races are also portrayed as "little islands", entirely separate from the others. I'm usually irritated neither Khorne, nor Nurgle, makes any move on the Orks, for the advantages this xenos race possesses, and the Eldar, who possibly helped make the Tau whatt hey are, today, haven't swept in, and made them the military force the fading Space Elves need (except in some fan-fictions). The Tau are actually pretty good at making allegiances, if you want to refer to some of their dealings as such, but these are never with an already standing 40k race; they just make up a short list of little aliens, many of which have a name, and "work with the Tau" as the whole of what we know of them.

Granted, some of the races, as presented, Tyranids,Oldcrons, it isn't so shocking; these being exist to destroy everything, but if Chaos can keep duping humans, it stands to reason the Ruinous Powers should have SOMETHING to offer some of the others. The Eldar are haughty, and arrogant, but they could seem to help, and get what they want. Orks, while not great, in my mind, willingly sell their services as mercs. Oh well, it still works, and makes for less cheesy armies, in 40K TT. If you've ever seen a Taudar force, it really doesn't matter what the enemy is fielding, with psykers, markerlights, great range, some of the best guns, and then some decent assaulters, if you like the Eldar options for that (Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions, Warp Spiders). They are both rather good at some of the same things (popping vehicles, so they can get superfluous, but they are a threat to be loathed. Granted, the RPG doesn't often draw from the table-top minis game 100%, but a lot of the ideas initially come from there, and it is the visual, sometimes even the origin of the fluff, that many of us associate with Warhammer 40,000, and I, for one, have played enough 40k to know that, if i see some things in an RPG of it, I'll assume the worst, unless the GM has already demonstrated a habit of favorable incompetence.

I mean they could get along like a house on fire: They both have advanced tech and hover vehicles, they both don't get along with the imperium and even that caste thing/eldar paths have some similarities.

I've often been irritated by this. I have whined, in the past, about how one reason the Imperium has to be so big is that EVERY enemy seems out to get the Imperium, and little else. They rarely seem to fight each other, or ally with the Imperium, and if the Imperium wasn't so big, it wouldn't have the resources, when it does, to fight off so many different foes, simultaneously. Having whined that, I am often surprised at the fact that so many of the alien races are also portrayed as "little islands", entirely separate from the others. I'm usually irritated neither Khorne, nor Nurgle, makes any move on the Orks, for the advantages this xenos race possesses, and the Eldar, who possibly helped make the Tau whatt hey are, today, haven't swept in, and made them the military force the fading Space Elves need (except in some fan-fictions). The Tau are actually pretty good at making allegiances, if you want to refer to some of their dealings as such, but these are never with an already standing 40k race; they just make up a short list of little aliens, many of which have a name, and "work with the Tau" as the whole of what we know of them.

.

Well, duh. I mean why shouldn'tr everyone in the galaxy want to exterminate the imperium, or at least destroy it? I mean the impoerium's policy is universal genocide for all non humans, as well as any human that disagrees with it. Even the orks don't practice genocide, sure they love to fight and conquer, but i don't think they make a conscious effort to exterminate every single alien they meet. In fact the orks might be inclined to let other races survive so "dey's can get 'arder an' comes back an' gives us a better fight nex' time! " I mean the orks probably don't want to exterminate everyone, except maybe the tyranids, because without other gits who'd they have to fight?

The eldar might exterminate a species if it was really a threat to them, but apparently they had a chance to murder humanity early on and didn't. I've heard the later editions of the tau exterminated some races which wouldn't fit into their empire, which is a disappointment to me since all i had was the first edition of the tau codex. but even they don't make universal genocide a police.

So yes, given what the imperium is i can't blame all non humans for wanting it destroyed, can you?

As to a tau eldar alliance, hell i wonder why not? The eldar have much knowledge to teach the tau, which could be invaluable to them given their lack of deep knowledge of the galaxy. The tau have drone tech which I'm surprised the eldar aren't eager to acquire as they'd be better losing drones than guardians. Hell, a smart move for the eldar would be to let the tau "incorporate" them into the empire and let the tau die protecting them. I suppose the eldar are just to vain and proud to do that tho...

I suppose the eldar might have to attack tau settling on maiden worlds, but even then I think they could talk out a solution. The tau leave the elodar give them a lot of information about cchallenges they have to look forward to. Again, eldar pride, I suppose.

And I'm not suspecting daemons or the Warp to be at work, either. According to Games Workshop's Inquisitor game, Tau flat-out don't register to daemons; they're like a whole species of Blanks. Which just increases my suspicion further. It's like someone manipulated them into becoming a perfect weapon against Chaos.

Wich makes eldar involvement seem odd. Especially if we're going with the Old Ones vs Chaos lore: the two most succesfull races made by the Old Ones were the very psychic eldar and the (Kr)ork with their latent psychic field enabling their technology to work. And here we have the Tau who have no psy stuff at all.

Now who do we know who doesn't do psykers and can shut down chaos? The necrons. Maybe they got some missing C'tan shard helping them out/using them for it's own end. I shall call him the Ethereal One.

The invention of new minor races for the Tau probably just comes from GW wanting to avoid tripping on other peoples' toes. Imagine they'd permanently throw Tau and Eldar into a single codex, for example. I mean, I actually *could* see this happen, but it makes Tau and Eldar fighting one another problematic, thus removing a possible battle setup from peoples' options.

And then, besides the Eldar, who else is there we could even imagine as new members for the Tau Empire? None of the other factions really seems to be able to fit in there. At best they could have recycled the Squats, but these days Squats are handled as Abhumans rather than a separate race.

That being said, there have been rules for Human colonies, or more specifically Gue'vesa warriors, in Tau space!

In regards to the Ruinous Powers -- I do recall a mention somewhere of a bunch of Orks coming across a Nurgle shrine and mistaking it for one about Gork and Mork. They started to pray to it, then ... changed.

-- source: 3E Codex Witch Hunters

I guess it's pretty much an exception, though. If I had to speculate, I'd say that the other races in question either have some sort of protection, a smaller psychic signature, or generate fewer emotional leakage. That, and 40k's history has always focused 90% on Mankind, so a lot of exceptions may simply go "unreported".

Yeah, it's been made plain the tau have no connection to the warp, no psykers, etc. The kroot are relatively unemotional, they do have feelings but their logic dominates their actions, they are supreme pragmatists. Humans might flee to the tau empire, especially deserters from the jericho crusade. They are already included in the rules tho. How the tau deal with psykers is a question begging an answer... Human ships with human navigators could be a big help to the tau, providing them faster, but riskier, scouting forces. This assumes that the tau are able toi maintain human technology on that scale. I mean can you imagine a tau engineer being guided into a human warp ship and taking one look at he engines with all the skulls, purity seals, litanies, etc? He'd probably end up in tears as the human engineer staff tried to explain how had to say a prayer every time he touched anything, preform sacred rites, chant catechisms, etc....

I do wonder if a ship with a mostly tau crew might be less vulnerable to warp disasters as the tau would attract less attention than a bunch of humans. Plus I bet once the tau wrapped their little blue heads about the idea of a geller (or is it gellar?) field generator they'd make one that worked a hell of a lot better and more reliably than imperial models.

one faction I could see going over to the tau might be a renegade bunch of Adeptus Mechanicus tech priests and their servitors. I mean the AM already have an ultra collectivist mentality, you know. Plus the temptation to learn the secrets of tau tech might be unbearable. Also they might be hereteks who believe ALL technologically advances races should be introduced to the "machine god" and it is their duty to preach the word of the machine god and convert all other technologically advanced races to his cause. That would make them hereteks big time, and thus need the safety of the tau empire.

The tau might shake their heads softly at the madness of the cultus mechanicus but be willing to smile and nod at it as they learned all there was to know of imperial technology. Exposure to the tau might slowly soak into the AM and maybe get them to gradually become less dogmatic in their devotion to their god.

We hear a lot about the "hrud" in 40k, and how the imperium (naturally) hates them, have they ever been statted and tapped as a potential tau ally?

And I'm not suspecting daemons or the Warp to be at work, either. According to Games Workshop's Inquisitor game, Tau flat-out don't register to daemons; they're like a whole species of Blanks. Which just increases my suspicion further. It's like someone manipulated them into becoming a perfect weapon against Chaos.

Wich makes eldar involvement seem odd. Especially if we're going with the Old Ones vs Chaos lore: the two most succesfull races made by the Old Ones were the very psychic eldar and the (Kr)ork with their latent psychic feeld enabling their technology to work. And here we have the Tau who have no psy stuff at all.

Now who do we know who doesn't do psykers and can shut down chaos? The necrons. Maybe they got some missing C'tan shard helping them out/using them for it's own end. I shall call him the Ethereal One.

Not a bad theory there, my friend. Not bad at all... You may have hit on something...

One thing, tho. The tau are not "blanks" or nulls, The old necrons use to assimilate human nulls as pariahs to screw over psykers, you'd think if the necrons made the tau they'd be a race of nulls that would just be a living nightmare for chaos and other psyker forces. maybe it was impossible to do this, but not much seems impossible to the c'tan. Also the necrons seem to have a yuuuuge hate on for the eldar, but the tau don't seem to.