so how do you handle this? Do you as a GM create a startship of the hull-type the RT want's to acquire and if he doesn't like it, it's too bad? Or do you let your RT group create the starship themselves (which would actually be a custom made starship then)

I suppose it boils down to how long the players want to wait - since it's stated that the construction of a starship can take the resources of an entire world for decades. If they want a custom ship, they should have to wait while it's built.

They may be able to find something CLOSE to what they're looking for (depending on size, of course) - maybe allow them to make the ship themselves but have them make an acquisition roll for each component - if it's not available, then they'll have to make do with something else.

I gave the group a starship, an inheritance from the leader of their merchant house (who died in mysterious circumstances).

I figured that if they did not like it, it would provide a source of scenarios to gather the resources / profit / etc to make the changes they desired.

On the other hand, I did give them a frigate fitted out for merchant service - not a dog of a cargo hull. So I guess you could call it a compromise.

I'm planning on letting them make an acquisition roll for the ship hull type. I give them the basic systems with the lowest end systems. Transports get no weapons, and the rest get the cheapest weapon for that mount. For each addition level of success I let them upgrade one system. No xenos or archeotech stuff. Anything else they must do further rolls, and wait for the systems to be installed. I figure my PCs will get the basic ship, aquire more systems, and break open their salvaged systems cache. Then head out in their old ship while the "new" ship is being refitted.

My personal feeling on this matter is that it is a big enough deal that you can't adopt any single approach.

If they are commisioning a new ship, or otherwise acquiring a straight-from-the-shipyard vessel, it would have essential components and nothing else. The quality and skill of the shipyard would determine whether it had a chance of possessing the less-than desirable essential components, like Pressed Crew, with Voidsmen being more the default. If they're chummy with the local Machine Cult or flashing a lot of thrones, they could even pick up advanced essential components like a Deep Void Auger, but it would impose an acquisition penalty from the SP cost.

If they are buying a vessel from anothe captain, the Navy, or some similar source, the entire ship is totalled up for the acquisition modifier. The GM stats it himself, and should feel free to leave surprises, like a Ghilliam infestation or the ghosts of Gun Deck 17-B. It also might have minor damage that was not fixed. However, the players get a fully functional, and likely crewed vessel in one fell swoop as the tradeoff.

Under no circumstances would I allow a player to say "this is the sheet for the ship we want, is it available?" I am a big fan of PC protagonization, but that's just being a doormat GM. They should be allowed to get that ship eventually , through refits and hard work. But never, ever hand them everythin on a silver platter. Make them work for it.

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Dalnor Surloc said:

Whilst I like this approach and the extra sucesses go partway to cater for the fact that some of these ships are thousands of years old... I also really like the Ghilliam infestation & ghosts of gun deck 17B idea... The first ship should be dependant on the groups profit factor and initial character generation - after all the characters are really designing the shared final character when they design their ship... However - secondary ships... Mmmm perhaps there should be a 'after character creation ship's creation table'

I would go for a more adventerous advance. It's way to boring to just give away a whole space-worthy ship, even with minimum equipment with a single acquisition test. So why not actually let the players work (or better play) for it?

First the players need to find something to start with, so let them indeed roll on their profit factor as if acquiring a hull of the type they want to get. If successfull they get a clue, where they might find such a ship. But of course it's not just that easy, the ship might be a total wreckage, probably up to be dismantled like the "Sabre" in the rulebook or something like that, and the players now need to convice it's current owner to hand it over to them. This might even cost them a significant portion of their profit factor or they need to do something else for the owner. Be creative... and of course: the bigger the ship, the more they need to work for it.

Ok, now they got the hull, but not much more. They now need to acquire all the parts to get the ship repaired, refitted and equiped, don't forget to get a trustworthy crew and so forth... more hooks for endeavors and adventures to play. This should give your players a lot of motivation and once their new ship is complete, they should really love it since they really worked for it.

I really like the idea of making the players work for their ship somehow.

Seems like it would make a tighter bond to the player's ship and ... game actually.

T

I plan on making them work for it. Y'know, a salvage 'opportunity' or a battle trophy.

When they actually get rich, then if they want something boring like an escort frigate or something, they can roll for that. Anything slightly interesting or powerful will be a adventure hook.

You could always make them cut their own out of a space hulk... now that is NASTY!

I know it's not exactly what they're getting at in the fluff, but I think of starships in this setting being treasured artefacts, often thousands of years old. If new ships are being built, and I'm not sure on that, they are rare and expensive. Everything else is scavenged, repaired and rebuilt.

Essentially, if my players want another ship, they're going to have to take it off someone else, and hope it doesn't get too damaged in the taking.

I let my players put their own together. THen I started the game on the surface of a planet and by the time they got to the station the ship was docked at it had been stolen. They had to track the enemies while gathering allies, so that they could recapture their ship... it was epic and awesome according to my players. I'm not sure another group would like that though. I like the idea of making them work for the custom ship in some way, i would probly tailor 'the way' to the events you have planned for the campaign.

kelvingreen said:

Starships are still being built in canon. They're still treasured artifacts though, because it takes decades to build a starship and over a century to make the largest ones. The only way this works is if the starships themselves are built to last millennia. Scavenging, repairing and rebuilding are the norm because it takes significantly less time and resources to refit a decrepit hulk into a usable ship than it does to build one from scratch.

Given how expensive a ship is, nobody will build one and then try to sell it afterwards. Every ship under construction will probably be already paid for by it's future owner. Most ships will therefore be built for the Imperial Navy, or ordered by the Administratum for use by Chartist Captains if they decide an area is getting too low on it's quota of freighters. Any ships that make their way into private hands- ie Rogue Traders- will certainly be at least second hand. Unless they order a ship of their own to be built, in which case they spend the resources up front then come back in 80 years to pick it up.

As I see it, the hardest part about purchasing a Starship will be finding one for sale. This is doubtless why salvaging and refitting an old wreck is so popular, it's easier than finding a ship owner willing to part with the vessel.

The crew that I'm working with is mostly made of first-time RPers, ones who have played other systems, and two or three Warhammer veterans. So, to ease them in I've decided to set up the starting ship before hand, as well as the Rouge Trader and the support crew. This lets the PC's concentrate on getting used to the game without having to worry about those variables, and reduces the amount of preparation they have to go through.

However, I'm going to give them plenty of options to aquire new ships along the way, either via capture during space combat, stealing enemy vessels on the ground, or as rewards for endevors. Early in the RT Core, it mentions some Rouge Traders having entire fleets of ships, and while it puts a heavy strain on the crew's profit margin, it also allows for escalation into bigger and more complex missions.

More ships = more power = more profit = more fame/infamy = more groups taking notice of the burgeoning dynasty = more battles/missions = more ships

The starting ship of a playergroup is one thing. There is nothing wrong with letting the players construct their first ship together with the GM. But the original post was about acquiring additional ships, if I'm not mitstaken, which is a completely other thing with quite some impact on the game.