As the title. There are rules for Grey Knights in Dark Heresy: Daemon Hunters with a few nods to conversion to Deathwatch. Has anyone actually done this?

In 'the achiles assault' they had a demon prince of nurgle so apparently they expect deathwach teams to be able to deal with demon princes without the grey knights. Or they threw it in so gms could tpk teams that we're too powerful

Oh I know killteams can take on daemon princes. What I'm talking about is specifically a Grey Knights campaign. I've never run one and it's on my "maybe" list.

The challenge of grey knights in DW is that they don't' have cohesion based abilities. They have much higher fate point counts so power wise they're similar but you lose the teamwork fun part of it.

True. I'm concerned that players used to squad mode abilities in Deathwatch might find Grey Knights *less* powerful, even at similar ranks. I'm not sure if the psychic powers would make up for it.

The DH:DH version of Nemesis Hammerhand is a bit subpar to say the least. I'd be inclined to use the version from the Grey Knights adversary writeup in Black Crusade, p365.

Aren't grey knights so totally specialized they wod be kinda boring to run? I mean they only fight demons, as I recall. A death watch team can maybe off a demon prince. Not as easily as GK could, but they can. Plus they can off a lot of other menaces. Death watch seems more flexible and open to more options.

Yeah, about daemon princes...I'll put on in the other thread.

I agree, Grey Knights aren't great for a long campaign. They might be great for a short, very intense campaign.

Aren't grey knights so totally specialized they wod be kinda boring to run? I mean they only fight demons, as I recall. A death watch team can maybe off a demon prince. Not as easily as GK could, but they can. Plus they can off a lot of other menaces. Death watch seems more flexible and open to more options.

Another thought. As the books point out, Grey Knights do fight other things besides daemons. It's just that they specifically look to fight those, which isn't the same thing. If a force of rebels or traitor marines or xenos get in the way of them doing their holy mission, those forces are fair game.

I agree, Grey Knights aren't great for a long campaign. They might be great for a short, very intense campaign.

I was planning on running a one-shot Grey Knights scenario, using the published DW mission where they invade the corrupted Forge World (I'm forgetting the name right now), to try out the GK rules. Never got around to it, though...

True. I'm concerned that players used to squad mode abilities in Deathwatch might find Grey Knights *less* powerful, even at similar ranks. I'm not sure if the psychic powers would make up for it.

You could just "rebuild" them based on the rules in the Deathwatch RPG, like some sort of hybrid between a Librarian and a TacMarine. It's what I would recommend for crossovers with these games, anyways; the books may all have that token comment about compatibility, but at the end of the day there are sufficient differences in rules and power levels between the individual games that you're going to open up a can of worms once you go down that road.

Squad Modes in the DW:RPG are insanely powerful, for example, and player characters who won't have access to them will be at a disadvantage.

Another thought. As the books point out, Grey Knights do fight other things besides daemons. It's just that they specifically look to fight those, which isn't the same thing. If a force of rebels or traitor marines or xenos get in the way of them doing their holy mission, those forces are fair game.

Indeed! Not to mention that as the private army of the Ordo Malleus they can end up in all sorts of Inquisitorial shenanigans, especially if they even just vaguely include "matters of the daemonic". Traitor Marines tend to have a certain connection to the Warp, too, for example. Even just a minor Chaos Cult may dabble in daemonic summons (or at least this could be the official justification for deployment), and then there's always Inquisitorial cover-up operations as well...

That's the sort of writeup I was looking for. Cheers for the food for thought.

I've mulled over using variants of the DW specialties versus the newer-canon GK specialties in DH:DH.

The challenge of grey knights in DW is that they don't' have cohesion based abilities. They have much higher fate point counts so power wise they're similar but you lose the teamwork fun part of it.

I assure you the mutually supporting psychic powers go a long way to making up for it. Shrouding allows power armoured astartes to actually 'sneak', for example.

I've run a Grey Knights campaign, and it worked perfectly well.

One mission was a straightforward "kong smash" where they were teleported down to near a site where a chaos sorcerer cabal were engaged in daemonological shenanigans (the shenanigans in question had caused a vox- and auspex-wrecking storm over the entire war-zone continent, so 'near' was as good as they were getting!), and had to bust their way through an active battlefield, cultist patrols, some daemon engine perimeter guards, then butcher the sorcerors themselves. No actual daemons, but enough sorcerous weirdness to justify their involvement.

Another was tracking down a chaos artefact (a possessed cogitator) that had been acquired by a Magos with Xanthite (I guess technically Xanathite) leanings. Which meant sneaking up on an orbital research platform run by the Mechanicus.....who are the one organisation with superior tech at their fingertips (mechadendrite-tips?) to the Inquisition. This required The Plan. Most of the knights did not like The Plan. Worse, when they finally managed to locate the artefact, they found it had been connected to a warhound titan. This got rather messy, very quickly.

A third was 'cleaning house' - exterminating the survivors of a guard regiment deployed to the warzone of their first mission. Several of whom they owed their lives to.

A fourth was boarding a daemon-infested hulk, making use of the Ark Of Lost Souls sourcebook.

A fifth was infiltrating a nobility banquet. Not as marines, obviously, but by making use of some trained Scholastica telepaths with psi-boosters - "wearing" them, Ravenor -fashion. Each 'puppet' also carried a concealed teleport homer for when things (inevitably) went noisy.

A sixth was acting as the bodyguard for an inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus during some (never entirely explained) political negotiations with other high-ranking inquisitors.

The challenge of grey knights in DW is that they don't' have cohesion based abilities. They have much higher fate point counts so power wise they're similar but you lose the teamwork fun part of it.

I assure you the mutually supporting psychic powers go a long way to making up for it. Shrouding allows power armoured astartes to actually 'sneak', for example.

I've run a Grey Knights campaign, and it worked perfectly well.

One mission was a straightforward "kong smash" where they were teleported down to near a site where a chaos sorcerer cabal were engaged in daemonological shenanigans (the shenanigans in question had caused a vox- and auspex-wrecking storm over the entire war-zone continent, so 'near' was as good as they were getting!), and had to bust their way through an active battlefield, cultist patrols, some daemon engine perimeter guards, then butcher the sorcerors themselves. No actual daemons, but enough sorcerous weirdness to justify their involvement.

Another was tracking down a chaos artefact (a possessed cogitator) that had been acquired by a Magos with Xanthite (I guess technically Xanathite) leanings. Which meant sneaking up on an orbital research platform run by the Mechanicus.....who are the one organisation with superior tech at their fingertips (mechadendrite-tips?) to the Inquisition. This required The Plan. Most of the knights did not like The Plan. Worse, when they finally managed to locate the artefact, they found it had been connected to a warhound titan. This got rather messy, very quickly.

A third was 'cleaning house' - exterminating the survivors of a guard regiment deployed to the warzone of their first mission. Several of whom they owed their lives to.

A fourth was boarding a daemon-infested hulk, making use of the Ark Of Lost Souls sourcebook.

A fifth was infiltrating a nobility banquet. Not as marines, obviously, but by making use of some trained Scholastica telepaths with psi-boosters - "wearing" them, Ravenor -fashion. Each 'puppet' also carried a concealed teleport homer for when things (inevitably) went noisy.

A sixth was acting as the bodyguard for an inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus during some (never entirely explained) political negotiations with other high-ranking inquisitors.

There are some great ideas there. And suitably stiff challenges.

There are some great ideas there. And suitably stiff challenges.

To be fair, out of all of it I most enjoyed 'The Plan'.

The conversation went something like this:

• How do we get a Grey Knight Kill-team to sneak aboard an Archmagos' private research orbital?
• We have access to a ship with authorisation to dock.
• They'll scan it and spot astartes bio-signatures
• Can't we jam it?
• Mechanicus. Archmagos. Research. Facility
• Err..... psychic power?
• Maybe. Probably not, though. More importantly, how do you plan to actually get aboard?
• Docking port?
• Sentry guns. Servitors. Skitarii. Cyber-mastiffs. Bloody Battle Robots, for all I know.
• Teleport?
• Yeah. Because there's no way they'll detect that.
• Assault ram?
• Docked where on the ship? Even if we could hide, how do you want to 'hide' a Caestus?

At this point, a third player piped up:

• Through an external airlock on the station.
• ....Okay. Not exactly easy, but I'll bite. How do we get onto the outside of the station. We jump, we'll be seen.
• Then we walk. Over the outside of the hull, once it docks. Walk across the docking arm from the outside.
• And how do we avoid being picked up on the scan once we dock?
• We hide somewhere the scans won't see us.
• Like where?
• Well.....did you know what the original function of terminator armour was?
• You have got to be [swearwords] kidding me.....

Two things you wouldn't want grey knights going up against would be tau and necrons.

There are some great ideas there. And suitably stiff challenges.

To be fair, out of all of it I most enjoyed 'The Plan'.

The conversation went something like this:

• How do we get a Grey Knight Kill-team to sneak aboard an Archmagos' private research orbital?
• We have access to a ship with authorisation to dock.
• They'll scan it and spot astartes bio-signatures
• Can't we jam it?
• Mechanicus. Archmagos. Research. Facility
• Err..... psychic power?
• Maybe. Probably not, though. More importantly, how do you plan to actually get aboard?
• Docking port?
• Sentry guns. Servitors. Skitarii. Cyber-mastiffs. Bloody Battle Robots, for all I know.
• Teleport?
• Yeah. Because there's no way they'll detect that.
• Assault ram?
• Docked where on the ship? Even if we could hide, how do you want to 'hide' a Caestus?

At this point, a third player piped up:

• Through an external airlock on the station.
• ....Okay. Not exactly easy, but I'll bite. How do we get onto the outside of the station. We jump, we'll be seen.
• Then we walk. Over the outside of the hull, once it docks. Walk across the docking arm from the outside.
• And how do we avoid being picked up on the scan once we dock?
• We hide somewhere the scans won't see us.
• Like where?
• Well.....did you know what the original function of terminator armour was?
• You have got to be [swearwords] kidding me.....

Glorious! I love it when players come up with cunning plans, even if I may groan a little at the time.

Two things you wouldn't want grey knights going up against would be tau and necrons.

Any reason why not? The Tau are too naive to know better to avoid chaos, and necrons hate chaos and could easily be in the region to purge them. Necrons are even in the Black Crusade core book.

Great topic - and thanks for sharing about your campaign.

What was the original use of terminator armour?

Great topic - and thanks for sharing about your campaign.

What was the original use of terminator armour?

Boarding spacehulks and fighting genestealers.

It was originally designed for repair and maintenance work on active plasma reactors. ( http://www.tearsofenvy.com/termi-nation/ )

Great topic - and thanks for sharing about your campaign.

What was the original use of terminator armour?

Boarding spacehulks and fighting genestealers.

Tell that to the Blood Angels...

Yeah, they were in the spacehulk game that originat3ed terminators...

Originated Terminators? Since when did Space Hulk introduce Terminators?

They've been around since Rogue Trader as far as I know, and my reference was a joke as to how easy to kill a guy in 12 cm of solid plassteel is when faced with your garden variety Nid cockroach. Also f*ck C.A.T. units and f*ck them hard, they can go to the same hell as the Wraithknight if you ask me.

Space Hulk 1st edition did indeed introduce Terminator Armour. Rogue Trader (the 1st edition rulebook) doesn't include it.

It was originally designed for repair and maintenance work on active plasma reactors.

Correct answer. "The Plan" - in all it's epic WTF-ness, was to hide the Grey Knight squad inside the ship's plasma engine as it maneuvered in to dock, then walk out through the cooling engine nacelle once the drive shut down. Standing inside a starship plasma engine whilst the ship is actively maneuvering under power is a bit beyond the original intent even of the exosuits terminator plate is based on, but a combination of best craftsmanship armour and brotherhood of psykers enhancing one of their number with pyrokine talents juuuust about stopped them from dying a horrible burning death before the ship docked.

Originated Terminators? Since when did Space Hulk introduce Terminators?

They've been around since Rogue Trader as far as I know, and my reference was a joke as to how easy to kill a guy in 12 cm of solid plassteel is when faced with your garden variety Nid cockroach. Also f*ck C.A.T. units and f*ck them hard, they can go to the same hell as the Wraithknight if you ask me.

Yeah why won't they just use servo skulls? atleast those things float.

Space Hulk 1st edition did indeed introduce Terminator Armour. Rogue Trader (the 1st edition rulebook) doesn't include it.

It was originally designed for repair and maintenance work on active plasma reactors.

Correct answer. "The Plan" - in all it's epic WTF-ness, was to hide the Grey Knight squad inside the ship's plasma engine as it maneuvered in to dock, then walk out through the cooling engine nacelle once the drive shut down. Standing inside a starship plasma engine whilst the ship is actively maneuvering under power is a bit beyond the original intent even of the exosuits terminator plate is based on, but a combination of best craftsmanship armour and brotherhood of psykers enhancing one of their number with pyrokine talents juuuust about stopped them from dying a horrible burning death before the ship docked.

Ah! I see.

Clever.

Or, rather, "clever".