I would say B. You refresh cards at the start of your turn so when you refresh Lie In Wait you make the attack as instructed and continue with your turn. Grey Ker could then take his first action, and suspend his turn to use his second action later in the round.

Wow that's extremely strong. So with Grey Ker you can get 4-5 attacks in on the monsters before they even activate. I don't know if that's balanced, but I guess I will see.

It sounds like an effective tactic but I don't know if it is overpowered. You aren't gaining extra actions just manipulating when you get to use them. The problem with Lie in Wait is that you need a valid target at the start of your turn for it to work.

You would get 4 attacks, not 5, because you would get the attack from refreshing lie in wait, the attack that is GK's first action, then the 2 actions from the interrupting hero...but then a monster group has a turn, then GK gets his 2nd action...

Grey Ker resumes his turn after another hero ends their turn , selects the “End Turn” button, and resolves the subsequent monster activation (if any).

You would get 4 attacks, not 5, because you would get the attack from refreshing lie in wait, the attack that is GK's first action, then the 2 actions from the interrupting hero...but then a monster group has a turn, then GK gets his 2nd action...

Grey Ker resumes his turn after another hero ends their turn , selects the “End Turn” button, and resolves the subsequent monster activation (if any).

In my party we play with the beastmaster, so if you go grey ker into hero with familiar, you get up to 5 attacks.

I would say B. You refresh cards at the start of your turn so when you refresh Lie In Wait you make the attack as instructed and continue with your turn. Grey Ker could then take his first action, and suspend his turn to use his second action later in the round.

Wow that's extremely strong. So with Grey Ker you can get 4-5 attacks in on the monsters before they even activate. I don't know if that's balanced, but I guess I will see.

It sounds like an effective tactic but I don't know if it is overpowered. You aren't gaining extra actions just manipulating when you get to use them. The problem with Lie in Wait is that you need a valid target at the start of your turn for it to work.

While it's true that you aren't gaining actions, it makes a huge difference in RtL when you perform your actions unlike in the classic mode, because of the alternating turn structure. Getting up to 4-5 attacks before the enemy responds vs. 2-3 is nearly double the dmg output meaning the remaining monsters that can attack you are much less than otherwise.

Also RtL does nothing to counteract lie in wait, so you can pretty easily set it up.

Should I assume you fully replenish health and stamina between quests?

Should I assume you fully replenish health and stamina between quests?

Yes, unless you encounter a travel event that cause you to take fatigue or damage. You also remove all conditions but your morale does not replenish.

Should I assume you fully replenish health and stamina between quests?

Yes, unless you encounter a travel event that cause you to take fatigue or damage. You also remove all conditions but your morale does not replenish.

Thanks unless you go to the city then morale will replenish. Odd this isn't mentioned in the rules anywhere. I assume as well you still replenish (health) even if you don't travel to the city.

Should I assume you fully replenish health and stamina between quests?

Yes, unless you encounter a travel event that cause you to take fatigue or damage. You also remove all conditions but your morale does not replenish.

Thanks unless you go to the city then morale will replenish. Odd this isn't mentioned in the rules anywhere. I assume as well you still replenish (health) even if you don't travel to the city.

The end of quest step is explained in the tutorial quest and in the RTL rules (pag 10)

End of Quest

A quest most often ends when players resolve their objective or when morale is at 0 and a hero is knocked out. After a quest ends, players transition to a view of the campaign map and resolve a campaign phase, but first there are a couple of cleanup steps.

Heroes recover all health and stamina, flip their Hero sheets face up, and discard all Condition cards. All table components and set aside components (see “Setup” on page 3) are returned to their respective supplies."

You would get 4 attacks, not 5, because you would get the attack from refreshing lie in wait, the attack that is GK's first action, then the 2 actions from the interrupting hero...but then a monster group has a turn, then GK gets his 2nd action...

Grey Ker resumes his turn after another hero ends their turn , selects the “End Turn” button, and resolves the subsequent monster activation (if any).

In my party we play with the beastmaster, so if you go grey ker into hero with familiar, you get up to 5 attacks.

I would say B. You refresh cards at the start of your turn so when you refresh Lie In Wait you make the attack as instructed and continue with your turn. Grey Ker could then take his first action, and suspend his turn to use his second action later in the round.

Wow that's extremely strong. So with Grey Ker you can get 4-5 attacks in on the monsters before they even activate. I don't know if that's balanced, but I guess I will see.

It sounds like an effective tactic but I don't know if it is overpowered. You aren't gaining extra actions just manipulating when you get to use them. The problem with Lie in Wait is that you need a valid target at the start of your turn for it to work.

While it's true that you aren't gaining actions, it makes a huge difference in RtL when you perform your actions unlike in the classic mode, because of the alternating turn structure. Getting up to 4-5 attacks before the enemy responds vs. 2-3 is nearly double the dmg output meaning the remaining monsters that can attack you are much less than otherwise.

Also RtL does nothing to counteract lie in wait, so you can pretty easily set it up.

I understand this, however if you are using an action from a previous turn to just make an attack on a later turn I don't know that you are really getting a huge advantage other than the extra die that Lie in Wait provides. If Grey Ker doesn't have a valid target and you use Lie in Wait hoping that he will have one at the beginning of his next turn that is different, but you aren't guaranteed he will be able to use it.

Should I assume you fully replenish health and stamina between quests?

Yes, unless you encounter a travel event that cause you to take fatigue or damage. You also remove all conditions but your morale does not replenish.

Thanks unless you go to the city then morale will replenish. Odd this isn't mentioned in the rules anywhere. I assume as well you still replenish (health) even if you don't travel to the city.

The end of quest step is explained in the tutorial quest and in the RTL rules (pag 10)

End of Quest

A quest most often ends when players resolve their objective or when morale is at 0 and a hero is knocked out. After a quest ends, players transition to a view of the campaign map and resolve a campaign phase, but first there are a couple of cleanup steps.

Heroes recover all health and stamina, flip their Hero sheets face up, and discard all Condition cards. All table components and set aside components (see “Setup” on page 3) are returned to their respective supplies."

Geez how did I miss that. Thank you!

Yesterday we played the first kindred fire main quest (after the tutorial) and no sidequests showed up on the adventure map (between the tutorial and the first main quest we did both side quests). Is this normal or is this some kind of bug?

Yesterday we played the first kindred fire main quest (after the tutorial) and no sidequests showed up on the adventure map (between the tutorial and the first main quest we did both side quests). Is this normal or is this some kind of bug?

The map only shows two side quests at time. You need back to the city after completed all side quests to the app generate new ones.

Yesterday we played the first kindred fire main quest (after the tutorial) and no sidequests showed up on the adventure map (between the tutorial and the first main quest we did both side quests). Is this normal or is this some kind of bug?

The map only shows two side quests at time. You need back to the city after completed all side quests to the app generate new ones.

We did the following: Played the tutorial, played both sidequests without going back to the city, went to the city, played the first main quest. So now we have to visit a city to generate new side-quests?

Yesterday we played the first kindred fire main quest (after the tutorial) and no sidequests showed up on the adventure map (between the tutorial and the first main quest we did both side quests). Is this normal or is this some kind of bug?

The map only shows two side quests at time. You need back to the city after completed all side quests to the app generate new ones.

We did the following: Played the tutorial, played both sidequests without going back to the city, went to the city, played the first main quest. So now we have to visit a city to generate new side-quests?

Rise of all goblins has the tutorial quest, two side quests, one story quest and nothing more.

Tutorial or the first quest in Kindred Fire? The quest tutorial its only avaliable on Rise of all goblins campaign.

Rise of all goblins has the tutorial quest, 2 side quests , one story mission and nothing more.

Kindred Fire, after you doing all side quests (and after doing the story quest in some cases), you need go back to town to generate more side quests.

Hi all. Just playing though the first tutorial campaign and have a few questions that I didn't see here.

1. When placing unique monsters and it says "Place 1 master ______ (ignoring group limits)" does that mean I always place only the master no matter what the group limits are, or does that refer to the 2 hero limit where it would normally be 1 minion. I suspect it's the first (always just the master), but the fact that there's an activation step for minions makes me question that.

2. Engage with reach. If a monster with reach is instructed to engage a hero, do they still move adjacent to them? Again, that's what I suspect from the wording of the rules, but I just want to clarify.

3. When a large monster is trying to engage a specific hero (lowest strength, for instance), but they can't (other figures are in the way), do they go for the next lowest strength, or do they just stop moving when they get as close as they can?

4. Will a monster still retreat if the move will put it closer to another hero? We had a situation where there were very few open spaces and a monster had to retreat. The only space it could reach with its remaining movement was right next to another hero. We played it that the monster does retreat, but that was basically a coin toss.

Thanks for the help!

1. Always the master. The app keeping tracking of all monsters for that group (minons and masters) because in some cases you can encounter more monsters of the same group and the app only activate them one time per turn. Just ignore the activation for the minions if they are not present.

2. Move adjacent. Of course, they can still attack with the reach distance if are no more movement points left. (see the Decision Making rules in RTL manual)

3. If you cannot meet the requeriments for that activation, you skip for the next one. You can circle the activations until you get two valid ones.

4. You choose, see the Decision Making rules in RTL manual.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/14/43/1443102c-0180-4ffa-8ab2-514d1845f805/road_to_legend_rules.pdf

Hey guys, played through the demo yesterday and already started Kindred Fire campaign with my buddy (we're playing 2 heroes each). We finished the first quest and are having some questions:

1. As you always get back full gold when selling items, does it make sense to simply buy everything you can all the time in the city? This way you could get the best items for every quest and sell them if something better shows up in the market. Also some peril effects appear to be punishing heroes who can't unequip cards (or turn them face down). So I guess that's a very valid and good strategy?
   
2. When a monster activation reads to do an action in addition to the 2 available actions for a monster group, then how do we handle this? For example, one round the Zombies activation told us that every Zombie immediately grabs a hero, even though that action is actually reserved for masters only. As it didn't say only "Master Zombies" do this, during this round Zombies basically had 3 actions and all minions also had the grab action, which seems quite strong. So is this correct and can monsters get effects and abilities that are not displayed for them/their type?
   
3. For attacking and defending there is usually a very strict process you have to go through found in the base game rules. We're wondering how monsters are actually using surges, since we as the heroes always have to say how to spend them before the attacked monster rolls for defense. So a hero can't choose to pick his surge after the monster made a poor defense roll to use extra damage instead of pierce just to get more damage on the target. Likewise, a monster that chooses to e.g. burn or poison an enemy if damage goes through, has to declare this (or the app declares this order actually) before the hero rolls for defense. If the hero completely blocks the attack then the monster also can't decide to suddenly use the surge for extra damage or something like this. Is this correct? I'm asking because the rules on page 10 are a bit confusing. The surge order is in the app always, but these seem to overrule these surge orders.
   
   "The figure always spends surges to defeat a hero, if possible. This can
   cause it to ignore surges with special abilities in favor of those that cause
   additional damage."
   
   This makes no sense since a monster can't possibly know if an attack will defeat a hero before spending surges. Can someone explain this to me? This only makes sense if the monster would be allowed to choose how to use surges after knowing a heroes' defense roll.
   
4. Some monsters sometimes have the same action twice on their activation list (like Barghest's having "Howl" twice or Wraiths having "Death Cry" twice). Do I understand it right that these actions ignore line of sight and can hit a party extremely hard? The thing is that Death Cry actually is limited to "once per round" on the monster card, but if the activation list reads "use Death Cry" twice one after the other, how does this make sense? I'm sure the developers and QA guys noticed that this is a contradiction, but we've played it so they can actually do "Death Cry" twice. This is absolutely horrible for the group though, doing like 4 damage to doomed targets means that they can pretty much wipe out my group in one round (sounds absurdly OP, especially if that related attribute is low, which it is for most heroes in my current group).
   
5. For the demo campaign there was a room with tons of Goblin archers and Shadow Drakes. Now the goblin archers and heroes were positioned in a corridor so the Drakes couldn't get in a position to engage the heroes because they only have 3 Speed. Since the app never instructs them to do two movement actions and they have to expand after doing the first one, does that mean we played it correctly, so that they basically couldn't do anything since we positioned in a smart way? The darker space was the spawn circle. Goblin archers were basically blocking them from expanding also.
   

That's all for now, thanks in advance.

This only makes sense if the monster would be allowed to choose how to use surges after knowing a heroes' defense roll

Dice rolled on second step of combat. And surges spent on fourth.

This only makes sense if the monster would be allowed to choose how to use surges after knowing a heroes' defense roll

Dice rolled on second step of combat. And surges spent on fourth.

Thank you. I'm confused how I could read that differently. I literally read these rules again yesterday and today remembered it differently. That makes a lot of sense now, thank you!

As you always get back full gold when selling items, does it make sense to simply buy everything you can all the time in the city? This way you could get the best items for every quest and sell them if something better shows up in the market. Also some peril effects appear to be punishing heroes who can't unequip cards (or turn them face down). So I guess that's a very valid and good strategy?

I do this. Seems to have worked out so far.

When a monster activation reads to do an action in addition to the 2 available actions for a monster group, then how do we handle this? For example, one round the Zombies activation told us that every Zombie immediately grabs a hero, even though that action is actually reserved for masters only. As it didn't say only "Master Zombies" do this, during this round Zombies basically had 3 actions and all minions also had the grab action, which seems quite strong. So is this correct and can monsters get effects and abilities that are not displayed for them/their type?

The "special effect" listed at the top of the monster activation is in addition to the regular rules. It can be very deadly.

For attacking and defending there is usually a very strict process you have to go through found in the base game rules. We're wondering how monsters are actually using surges, since we as the heroes always have to say how to spend them before the attacked monster rolls for defense. So a hero can't choose to pick his surge after the monster made a poor defense roll to use extra damage instead of pierce just to get more damage on the target. Likewise, a monster that chooses to e.g. burn or poison an enemy if damage goes through, has to declare this (or the app declares this order actually) before the hero rolls for defense. If the hero completely blocks the attack then the monster also can't decide to suddenly use the surge for extra damage or something like this. Is this correct? I'm asking because the rules on page 10 are a bit confusing. The surge order is in the app always, but these seem to overrule these surge orders. "The figure always spends surges to defeat a hero, if possible. This can

cause it to ignore surges with special abilities in favor of those that cause

additional damage."

This makes no sense since a monster can't possibly know if an attack will defeat a hero before spending surges. Can someone explain this to me? This only makes sense if the monster would be allowed to choose how to use surges after knowing a heroes' defense roll.

Looks like you got your answer but I wanted to point out if you select the skull icon on the top of the monster activation page it will list the order in which the monster should spend surges.

Some monsters sometimes have the same action twice on their activation list (like Barghest's having "Howl" twice or Wraiths having "Death Cry" twice). Do I understand it right that these actions ignore line of sight and can hit a party extremely hard? The thing is that Death Cry actually is limited to "once per round" on the monster card, but if the activation list reads "use Death Cry" twice one after the other, how does this make sense? I'm sure the developers and QA guys noticed that this is a contradiction, but we've played it so they can actually do "Death Cry" twice. This is absolutely horrible for the group though, doing like 4 damage to doomed targets means that they can pretty much wipe out my group in one round (sounds absurdly OP, especially if that related attribute is low, which it is for most heroes in my current group).

Cycle through the possible monster actions until either the monster does all its possible activations with in the regular rules (move/move or move/attack) or its unable to act. Skip any actions it cannot do (like attack a second time). Only the "special effect" at the top of the activation page supersedes the rules.

For the demo campaign there was a room with tons of Goblin archers and Shadow Drakes. Now the goblin archers and heroes were positioned in a corridor so the Drakes couldn't get in a position to engage the heroes because they only have 3 Speed. Since the app never instructs them to do two movement actions and they have to expand after doing the first one, does that mean we played it correctly, so that they basically couldn't do anything since we positioned in a smart way? The darker space was the spawn circle. Goblin archers were basically blocking them from expanding also.

That's all for now, thanks in advance.

Yes you played it correctly. The big monsters often get stuck behind the small ones. The app compensates for its inability to do actual "informed" monster strategy by adding in the "special effects" in an attempted to balance the AI. IMO it works darn good.

As you always get back full gold when selling items, does it make sense to simply buy everything you can all the time in the city? This way you could get the best items for every quest and sell them if something better shows up in the market. Also some peril effects appear to be punishing heroes who can't unequip cards (or turn them face down). So I guess that's a very valid and good strategy?

I do this. Seems to have worked out so far.

When a monster activation reads to do an action in addition to the 2 available actions for a monster group, then how do we handle this? For example, one round the Zombies activation told us that every Zombie immediately grabs a hero, even though that action is actually reserved for masters only. As it didn't say only "Master Zombies" do this, during this round Zombies basically had 3 actions and all minions also had the grab action, which seems quite strong. So is this correct and can monsters get effects and abilities that are not displayed for them/their type?

The "special effect" listed at the top of the monster activation is in addition to the regular rules. It can be very deadly.

For attacking and defending there is usually a very strict process you have to go through found in the base game rules. We're wondering how monsters are actually using surges, since we as the heroes always have to say how to spend them before the attacked monster rolls for defense. So a hero can't choose to pick his surge after the monster made a poor defense roll to use extra damage instead of pierce just to get more damage on the target. Likewise, a monster that chooses to e.g. burn or poison an enemy if damage goes through, has to declare this (or the app declares this order actually) before the hero rolls for defense. If the hero completely blocks the attack then the monster also can't decide to suddenly use the surge for extra damage or something like this. Is this correct? I'm asking because the rules on page 10 are a bit confusing. The surge order is in the app always, but these seem to overrule these surge orders. "The figure always spends surges to defeat a hero, if possible. This can

cause it to ignore surges with special abilities in favor of those that cause

additional damage."

This makes no sense since a monster can't possibly know if an attack will defeat a hero before spending surges. Can someone explain this to me? This only makes sense if the monster would be allowed to choose how to use surges after knowing a heroes' defense roll.

Looks like you got your answer but I wanted to point out if you select the skull icon on the top of the monster activation page it will list the order in which the monster should spend surges.

Some monsters sometimes have the same action twice on their activation list (like Barghest's having "Howl" twice or Wraiths having "Death Cry" twice). Do I understand it right that these actions ignore line of sight and can hit a party extremely hard? The thing is that Death Cry actually is limited to "once per round" on the monster card, but if the activation list reads "use Death Cry" twice one after the other, how does this make sense? I'm sure the developers and QA guys noticed that this is a contradiction, but we've played it so they can actually do "Death Cry" twice. This is absolutely horrible for the group though, doing like 4 damage to doomed targets means that they can pretty much wipe out my group in one round (sounds absurdly OP, especially if that related attribute is low, which it is for most heroes in my current group).

Cycle through the possible monster actions until either the monster does all its possible activations with in the regular rules (move/move or move/attack) or its unable to act. Skip any actions it cannot do (like attack a second time). Only the "special effect" at the top of the activation page supersedes the rules.

For the demo campaign there was a room with tons of Goblin archers and Shadow Drakes. Now the goblin archers and heroes were positioned in a corridor so the Drakes couldn't get in a position to engage the heroes because they only have 3 Speed. Since the app never instructs them to do two movement actions and they have to expand after doing the first one, does that mean we played it correctly, so that they basically couldn't do anything since we positioned in a smart way? The darker space was the spawn circle. Goblin archers were basically blocking them from expanding also.

That's all for now, thanks in advance.

Yes you played it correctly. The big monsters often get stuck behind the small ones. The app compensates for its inability to do actual "informed" monster strategy by adding in the "special effects" in an attempted to balance the AI. IMO it works darn good.

First off: Thanks for your answers. I highly appreciate it!

@Buying items: I thought so. Will head back to the city next time we play to abuse this, because we're really struggling so far and we lost the demo campaign because we didn't realize we should power up as much as possible for the one final encounter (and we also skipped a side quest just to finish the demo campaign).

@Monsters spending surges: I didn't remember correctly, but I think I'll still have troubles with surges as you have the order in the skull icon (I knew that, but thanks for reminding me) and that second order in the rules which appears to override the skull order.

@Wraith using Death Cry twice: I understand what you're saying, but the description for Death Cry on the cards says it's limited to once per round. I'd never try to cast it twice per monster activation if another action would be between two casts, but in my case I had the same action (use Death Cry) immediately one after the other. I think it's safe to say at this point that this is intended, however, I think it's way too strong and can wreck groups way too easy (as I said, with 1 elite and 2 normal Wraiths and a bit of bad luck (+Doomed heroes) you will do around 6-8 damage with no means of mitigation (sure you'll have to fail the roll, but this happens pretty much all the time to us) to every hero in one round. See: http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Wraith

@Big monster issue: I just wanted to see if this is correct since we actually lost this quest even though we had "luck" with this game mechanic. If they simply could move behind us with 2 move actions we wouldn't have made it to the final room... :/

Some monsters sometimes have the same action twice on their activation list (like Barghest's having "Howl" twice or Wraiths having "Death Cry" twice). Do I understand it right that these actions ignore line of sight and can hit a party extremely hard? The thing is that Death Cry actually is limited to "once per round" on the monster card, but if the activation list reads "use Death Cry" twice one after the other, how does this make sense? I'm sure the developers and QA guys noticed that this is a contradiction, but we've played it so they can actually do "Death Cry" twice. This is absolutely horrible for the group though, doing like 4 damage to doomed targets means that they can pretty much wipe out my group in one round (sounds absurdly OP, especially if that related attribute is low, which it is for most heroes in my current group).

The app is the final source. The text on the cards (in relation to monster activations, not passives) is only for the normal Overlord game type. The app has stuff like this that over rules the normal rules since it does not have a player making the most optimal moves and decisions for everything. For instance, in the normal game monsters can only attack once an activation (unless they have the skill that says they can attack multiple times), whereas in the app the ,obs will attack as much as the activations dictate.

>For instance, in the normal game monsters can only attack once an activation (unless they have the skill that says they can attack multiple times), whereas in the app the ,obs will attack as much as the activations dictate

Only if second attack is written in special effects list. Normal actions is still under base rules restrictions

Same goes for the death cry or other ability with limited usage : if two actions both have activations of deaths cry, then first one is used and second one is skipped, but if second death cry actually action happens through special effect, it is used twice in the same round

For reference see page 7 of the rules:

ACTION LIST

The activation window displays which type of monster (master or minion) is activating first, followed by a list of potential actions (each marked with the � symbol).

For each monster of the displayed type, players resolve the displayed actions from top to bottom until the monster has performed 2 actions. Any actions that the monster cannot resolve are skipped (see “Skipping Actions” to the right).

If players get to the bottom of the list, they cycle back through it until the monster’s activation ends. The monster’s activation ends after it has resolved 2 actions or when it cannot resolve any actions in the list.

Normal restrictions and special abilities still apply. For example, most monsters cannot attack more than once per activation, so any actions that contain attacks are skipped if the monster already attacked.

"Normal restrictions and special abilities still apply"

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/31/dc/31dc4777-9bfe-49b5-8bd9-687901790454/road_to_legend_rules.pdf

Since I don't have that expansion I haven't seen the Death Cry action list. Is it possible that the Special Effect is allowing Death Cry twice?

p.s. checked wraiths with RTL app. there is activation where two death cries placed together at the beginning of activation? I think, it's a bug.

At the very least a misprint, I agree.