Premises: What does a 1 attack deck need. First it needs to be able to get its attack through. Second it has to be able to build faster the their opponent. Third it needs enough control and disruption to stop quick damaging players. The last thing the deck needs is to somehow hides its intent. The deck is as much psychological as it is technical.

Symbols: What are the best symbols for this type of deck. In all honesty you are stuck with void and death. More so death then void. Earth is a possibility but the stall is more active and is easily undone. The control needs to be irreversible. This forces you to play effects that blow up cards if possible.

Characters: The more I think about it if one is planning on focusing on one kill and nothing else there are only 2 characters that stand out. That is Ragnar and Rashotep. Both characters have enough hp to take some hits while everything is being setup. Both characters can transition into the offensive phase really easily. The easiest one to use is Ragnar. While void King and Algol can be considered as well I think that they can be faster and more efficient not running this setup. Algol can make it so they can go through their deck fast. This allows them to get key pieces and when the final turn comes one could get everything needed in hand. King could just play all the setup in the world and wait for 1 throw to flip and 1 throw to be in hand and end it. For the deck sake I’m sticking with Ragnar.

Foundations: These are the foundations I would use.

56 CARDS:
Cursed blood x4
Dead for One Thousand Years x4
Lives for Battle x4
Distracting Tauntx4
Heir to the storm x4
All life is prey x 4
G-corp leader x4
Valued but Not Trusted x4
Dead for One Thousand Years x4
Ka Technique x4
Might Makes Right x3
War Between Sisters x3
Sa, Symbol of Protection x4
In Search of Plunder x3
i-pressence x3

Attacks: I believe the finisher is a throw. The reason I say that is to gurantee an attack would get passed another player at turn 4 is going to be hard. Most staging areas would have at least 10 foundations on the low end. Adding in cards for speed pumps is a bad idea and it weighs down the deck. Also strange fashion can be taken care off with valued but not trusted. Thus a throw would go off. There is nothing in the meta that can stop a throw from being a throw. Thus the attack is a throw.
The attack I will be picking is Sandstorm Throw. The reason I’m picking this attack is that it covers your but just in case there is another E that you need to negate. It has a base 4 damage and it is a 5 difficulity. With all the foundations in your deck you don’t have to check anything. Thus this makes this the most prime attack for you to play because it maximizes your checks. Getting the attack to an 8 damage to kick in Might makes right would not be hard.

How it plays in theory: You mulligan your first hand if you do not have a cursed blood or Value but not trusted in your hand. You need cursed blood more so then any other foundation. Try to 4 or 5 foundations. Remember you are going to keep checking 5’s. By the end of turn 2 you should have the following in play at least 1 cursed blood, 1 ka technique, 1 Valued but not trusted, and at least 1 G-corp. You are using cursed blood to fill your foundations faster. By turn 4 you should have had 2-3 cursed bloods in your staging area. Thing is Ragnar wants to cut himself. He does this to fuel heir with the storm. By turn 4 you should have enough fodder out to blow up that you should be able to do over 50 damage if played out right and using Ragnar’s effects.

Here is an optimized setup assuming that you have 20 foundations in play. These 20 are…
Cursed blood x3
Lives for battle x1
Valued but not trusted x2
G-corp x2
All life is prey x2
Might makes right x1
In search of plunder x2
Ka technique x2
Distracting taunt x2
Heir to the storm x3

Pop valued but not trusted to take out any pesky E that will hurt you. Commit G-corp. Loose 2 life. Pop valued but not trusted to take out any pesky E that will hurt you again. G-corp leader loose 2 vitality. Then use lives for battle. Next use Ragnar E. This gives you 3 damage. You loose 2 health. Commit one of the cursed bloods to pay for cost. Use in search for plunder loose 2 health and gain 2 damage. Pop might makes right. Play In search for punder again and loose 2 health and gain 2 damage. Use your cursed bloods to pay cost. Play Heir to the storm first e and blow up Distracting Taunt to get 3 damage. Do it again for another 3 damage. This destroys 2 cards. Use the last heir to the storm to get 2 damage for destroying a in search of plunder. Destroy each Heir to the storm each giving you 10 damage a piece so that’s 30 damage. So you destroy three more cards. Next you play your 2 all lifes are prey for 9 each so that’s 18 damage. Add up the other damage you gained is 15 damage. This totals out 53 damage. Divided by 2 rounded up it would do 27 damage. One more all life is prey would have made it gone off with no problem. But I thought having 3 out was pushing it. This can one shot almost any character in the game at turn 4 with this optimized setup. Devil Gene is not even needed in the deck at all.
Analysis: The biggest lynch pin to make this work is cursed blood. Sad to say it shouldn’t have been allowed in the block. It allows a person to build this deck up fast. Without the build the turn for kill is harder pressed. Not only that there is a higher risk that defensive options will not be in play as well. The next culprit is Valued but not trusted. It can shut down anything on the board. Might makes right is the E that the opponent has to stop or else there is no chance of getting the crazy damage down. With Ragnar’s 30 hp and using G-corp Valued but not trusted loop he will have plenty of Hp to finish the game even if he goes into desperation. He needs at least 15 health to be on the safe side. Sad thing is that the defensive options of Ka technique and Destracting taunt just stall the game until the setup is done. They don’t break the deck they just slow everything down. Draw cards would only make the deck go faster and be able to block more on defensive turns. Death must not get draw. Sandstorm throw adds insult to injury on game 2 because if their was some card that caused the deck problems you could just name that card and shut it down. Yes Crushing Embrace of the Jotun, Body Slam, and One-Handed Crocodile Grasp do more base damage. It also takes longer for might makes right to kick in making it more risky for the opponent to do something like a Sa symbol of protection.

Feel free to copy and tweak how you like. If you find weakness in the format feel free to post and comment.

failed2k said:

It's true, I'm only a so-so fan of Financial Troubles. It is great in some decks, and worthless in most others...

Everything faild2k has posted is spot on, this is the down-season, reading about Shane's decks is a good thing (I find he tends to run low attack decks of late and to great sucess, see Hanzo, Bishamon, King, etc.). This is the time to relax, enjoy the new cards, and not feel forced to build the penultimate deck - experimentation is key.

I still think this thread was a lot of overreacting, but if the end result is people learn how to build low attack / (control) decks who use to not know how then I guess that is okay. To that extent I think the long list of cards and the desire to go Death or Void is barking up the wrong tree, that is just my humble opinion though.

- dut

darklogos said:

This deck could not live. I would be amazed if it lasted past turn 3 vs any aggro deck in the current meta. Thats not to say that the 1 attack deck wouldn't work, this build just has no staying alive power.

Problem 1: This build refused to recognize the awesome power of stun. Where the F%$K is perfect sense of balance and undisputed ruler? I mean really? All the opponent has to do is a wheel kick on their first attack of turn 2 and you aren't valuing ****.

Problem 2: Foundations are NOT the best control aspect this game has to offer right now. Scroll of the abyss and purple army suite are both INCREDIBLY powerful. Scroll stops the big attack from ripping your head off and purple army suite rips their pieces out of their hand. Not to mention the actions of the meta such as Cold and indifferent and the devil within. The best part about actions: they are the cards your opponent didn't see coming. And when you have SEEN your opponents attack base and KNOW they are going to hit you with a lifter to the face after that wheel kick, nothing says GTFO like a cold and indifferent to the face.

Problem 3: Death has the best momentum gen in the format right now, along with some of the best uses for it in a control game. Flexible body and purple army suite each **** face and give death a lot more STILL ALIVE power than anything else. And Maniacle laughter has a high block, and gets you momentum for destroying it! You can blow it up COMMITED with heir to the storm on your opponents attack just to grab momentum to use flexible body!

Problem 4: Dead for 1000 years is only helpful in the long game. There, I said it. And I mean the VERY long game. Like, when you are up against 3 standoffs or 3 enraged golem's and don't want to die. I think DF1KY is an incredible waste of space in a control deck because its too slow in its usefulness. The card is not really viable till about turn 5, and I hope you are alive by then. Control kills slow, but if it CONTROLS slow, its gone.

Problem the last #5: The idea of this deck is really kinda odd. Because death actually has attacks that are worth more than being just attacks, and can keep you alive long after you should have been deceasamafied. I point to demon slayer and leg slash. Have a problem with the early game **** train decks that kill before you have a chance to play a card? Block Breaker: 2 is one of the best ways to stop that crap I've seen. Breaker HURTS aggro decks in a way that rashotep the character card could only ever dream of. Demon slayer is on another level. They play an attack. It might be their second attack of the turn, and they have a path out. Problem is, you REALLY want to use the only blanking control piece you have out so far to blank something that isn't path. Anyway, you KNOW they are going to play another attack, path it and make you cry. Enter demon slayer. Oh, your path just got negated. Guess I'll take the 3 damage. Instead of, you know, 12.

To what decks has otaku's deck won against? To what has it lost against? Does it have good and bad matchups? With the way the meta is running, every deck has a bad matchup where it has to fight an uphill battle. The one attack death control deck's problem will be it's speed. Certain decks do speed VERY well, while others use random tech like standoff, torn hero, breaker or know when to talk to slow the game down to their pace and bring in the win. Don't freak out about the one attack control deck that enters the arena. We won't know how bonkers it is until we see some regional level results. So quit your bitchen and enjoy the game!

Makingsenseofus, I noticed a lot of the points you said and realized my Yoshimitsu deck fit a lot of them. Care to take a look and elaborate? (The deck is called "Yoshimitsu only attacks once")

failed2k said:

Well...somebody's gotta do it!

What's your EMail Jeremy? Or does anybody else here know it? I has some questinz

@Makingsenseofus

I respect your commentary. This is a starting point. Thing is this Otaku isn't sharing the tech so we have to start from scratch. This is scratch. This gets the job done. The tweaking goes on from here. Heck even the main character can go. YOu bring up a good point with stun. At the same time valued but not trusted looping stops the increase in stun rating or stop speed pumps. Most big stun attack are slow as mud and can be blocked with a 2 or 3+ block. Thing is that I agree with you that it shouldn't exist. It shouldn't be done. But it is being tried. Maybe not the way I have it set up but the premise is being tried. I point out some things that make this work. Feel free to to refine the deck properties in how its most feesible in the current format. I've heard some people say fire could do it better then death or void. The tech is starting from scratch if you want to help us build something worth disassembling feel free to contribute.

MarcoPulleaux said:

[email protected] is the one I actually check like twice a day. so that would be the best one to get a hold of me sir.

So basically what ive gotten outta this thread so far is that there can only be one way 2 win a game....and thats throw a bazillion attacks until your opponent just decides to die.

This i believe is complete BS. I think burn, mill, 4 attack decks, half attack decks, decks that control till they feel comfortable to win, decks that conisistantly kill turn 2 or 3, Loop decks(as long as they arent infinite) and deck that can control and aggro well should all exist at the same time. Thats what makes the game fun and exciting for all players involved.

When i first got into the game i was all about attacking and fast pace decks, overtime building decks with my playgroups and mainly Ariac, who is a major control player ive learned how to build all types of decks and have fun no matter what the decktype is. and considering that nobody even knows that this deck exists i wouldnt worry 2 much until it wins an event somewhere or at least gets spoiled so someone can see the tech involved

Metas can vary and this can change the way a deck preforms massively, leading up to worlds in 09 there was an R. Mika deck that smashed our meta over and over again. I could beat it about 25% of the time with my siggy deck that i took with me to worlds. So we start playing and end up placing in the top 16 and the guy playing R. Mika won 2 of his games all day. Long story short just because this deck is making a fuss in his meta doesnt mean that in someone else itll even win a single game

Remember the old saying pics or it didnt happen? i think this is a case of decklist or it didnt happen.

Ohh and another thing! remember the old ukyos apple thread? OMG this card is soo broken it needs to be banned but nobody would ever say why or even give a single clue as to what was going on with it? you know why they didnt? becuase all it was made to do was cause an uprising and troll the boards. Im not saying that the guy in question is guilty of this but hey with these forums you never know anymore and honestly id be happy if theres a deck outthere that can survive and win with one playset of attacks as this game needs to be more open and more people need to be able to play to thier playstyle and not just how everyone whos happy-go-lucky sees fit. This is a cardgame after all and everyone here is different in the way they think, act, and feel about any given topic.

I said decklist or it didn't happen. I got no backing on that. I said he should post the deck out there for the premise to be looked at. But no backing. Very few people even question the validity of Otaku in the other thread. I say something then there is a war.

darklogos said:

Its nothing against you man i think that your a great part what little forum community we have left, but it seems like your the one who is flipping out the most about this decklist that doesnt have any merits whatsoever as of right now

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

Most of the issues I have is double standards applied to me and I get assualted on that is not applied to others. That gets me a lot. The next is that things that are praised and or cursed are never eloberated on. Thing folks don't realize is that when it comes to norms of this game I don't know them. Remember no one sat me down and told me how things role in UFS. So I come in with the norms from the other communities I came out of. So that is a part of the clash because those communites cried fowl on many elements that are acceptable in UFS. Certain people are "protected" by the system and culture of UFS. If you top 8 some where big your tech is protected on the forums. You get to say a lot of things and your word is accepted or at least less scruitinzed then anyone else. So yeah a lot of venting comes up when I feel I have been a victim of elitism. I've done everything I possible could in every game I played to make the elite and the common player be on level ground. Few seem to value that because some would have to admit that their deck won them their game more so then their skill.

Yes its e-drama. Most would say let it go. But at the same time no one questions the underline values that are generally accepted in UFS when it comes to the game and in the culture itself. Many responses I get is "that's just the way it is" type responses. So my response is to find out why but no one most of the time can answer that. So I make my own conclusions based on the data I have. Look at my history I'm not one to shy away from repenting and accepting correction. But I'm not not going to accept something just because the elite say so.

Well I am not really sure how long you have been playing ufs and participating in the forums, but you must have been here long enough to see the million wine and cry ban this, errata that, change these rules. Those kinds of threads are always scrutinized or looked down on because the community has seen them a million times and are just tired of them. The reason you may feel you are being attacked in this paticular thread is the OP. If your opening post was more along the lines of lets build a 1 attack deck so we know how to beat it than you would have been more well recieved. Also you have to remeber this is newFS, a 1 attack deck is not going to be nearly as strong as it was in the previous block, nor will there be as many.

Also there is a bit of elitism on the boards, but it has been proven before that forum personas rarely match the person they belong to in reality. Take shinji for instance, he is prolly the biggest loudmouth on the boards, but in person he is kinda quiet and seems to only open up when he gets comfortable with the crowd he is in (didn't really hang out with him at worlds this was just the vibe I got coupled with info from other players).

tannerface said:

But I ***** because I love.

Plus it's hard to actually get the tone right when someone else is reading it and interpreting it differently. Half the time I try to be sarcastic it comes out completely different...

Speaking of everyone posting thier decks of course there are going to be some people who want to keep thier tech a secret until after the event is over thats just the way things are if i thought i had a worlds winning deck i wouldnt give it out to a bunch of other players just so it could be copied and i could end of getting diversitied out because of something that i built.

Besides that though from my experiences nobody can pilot your deck as well as you can so instead of just seeing another decklist your better off getting ideas from someone in a tech thread and building it yourself

guitalex2008 said:

High five!

dutpotd said:

Dut, you're usually a very good poster: excellent etiquette, well-thought out points, proper grammar, etc.

However, in this case, you should study Behavioral Psychology. Punishments (like scolding) only have any effect if they immediately follow the unwanted behavior, and only if they are perceived as a punishment by the offender . Most forum-posters (especially trolls, but really everyone) want attention and like to be contradictory. Scolding is not a punishment for them. All that said, even if you can find something that actually works as a punishment, there isn't a strong body of evidence that punishing has long-lasting results. At best, punishing may cause a temporary change in behavior.

Also, punishing is likely to backfire in a public setting. A private scolding (email or pm, in this case) is likely to be MUCH more effective than a public scolding, which can turn someone into your enemy (temporarily, if they're a reasonable person), and make them prone to purposefully ignoring your wishes.

So what does work? Two things:

1) Extinction of the unwanted behavior is best accomplished by ignoring it (i.e., do not feed the troll). However, this is not a short process. Breaking bad habits takes a minimum of 21 days, and that's assuming you have control of the situation (this is the only forum the offender visits, everyone in the forum participates in the ignoring, etc.). Basically, no one should reinforce unwanted behavior by responding. This is kind of unreasonable in a democratic setting like a forum, because not everyone has the same goals. Some people like feeding trolls, for instance. You can't stop that.

2) Reinforcing the behavior you _do_ want to see. You're good at this. You do this perhaps more than any other poster here. You praise Antigoth for his well-reasoned and -presented arguments, and you praise other folks, too. Sincere thank-you's for the kinds of posts you like to see provoke repeats of those kinds of posts, and some emulation by others.

I will note that scolding someone on a public forum will certainly make you feel better. That's why most forum-goers spend most of their time doing it. There's nothing quite like the high of righteous indignation, eh?

---------------------------------------------------------

On the subject of the topic, I actually agree with some of the basic assumptions of Darklogos' original post (though they weren't made explicit):

1) UFS is purportedly about fighting, and a lot of folks (not everybody, but a lot) think that attacks should therefore be at the center of the game. It shouldn't be possible to win without them (or with very few of them), just as it is not usually possible to win with few attacks in the fighting games. (There are one-hit kills in Guilty Gear, but they are hard to pull off, and not usually viable strategies. Also, GG is not a UFS license.)

2) UFS' basic design consists of low-difficulty/high-control resource cards with additional (often repeatable) abilities, and high-difficulty/low-control attacks with (generally) one-use abilities. This basic design favors higher numbers of foundations and lower numbers of attacks, in terms of consistent successful card play. This constitutes a danger to premise #1.

3) #2 was recognized and countered with the sweeping set-cycle of August. Specifically, sets were limited to those in which successful play of cards alone, and successful play of foundations specifically, was not enough to guarantee victory. Attacks were needed, and in high numbers than in Block 3.

4) Otaku's claim of a deck that is successful in the new metagame, but follows the old-metagame model (mostly grey cards) suggests that the danger of #2 is not averted. If his deck is strong enough, then it suggests that UFS is already succumbing to #2 again (and almost certainly will with the release of more sets, when the increase in possible interactions further destabilizes the metagame). If his deck is extremely successful, then it could easily become the most successful, as it is least dependent on luck. A mostly-grey deck will always be most consistent, as long as grey cards have consistently lower difficulty and higher control. They will have more resources available to block with. They will not often need resources to play cards (but will have them if necessary), and they will be able to use grey cards for their abilities more often.

5) UFS had a few years where the wall-of-grey seemed to inevitably dominate. We thought we'd gotten away from it. If it's happening again (or could happen again), perhaps something should be done to prevent it. One method would be to change the control ratings on future cards, so that more grey cards were control 1, 2, or 3, and more attack cards were control 3 (already happened) or maybe even 4 (hasn't happened yet). Higher-difficulty foundations might be another option. These would require phasing out old cards (just as the Block 3 stuff had to be purged before 5-point stuff was really viable/visible). However, another method (proposed by Darklogos) would be a required minimum number of attacks per deck.

I LIKE Darklogos' idea. I think a minimum number of attacks per deck, while it would limit player options, would not limit player creativity. If done right, it would not prevent Control as a viable alternative to Aggro. Attacks can be control, too, yes? Witness Pommel Smash, Demon Slayer, and Wipe the Floor, as well as Stun attacks, attacks with Breaker, and attacks with Reversal.

At the same time, having a minimum number of attacks would increase the amount that players are "swinging at each other," which is where the real fun of the game is for most people, since it's the most interactive part of the game.

@armed pirate

Thanks for your response. The issue is control looping. G-corp leader lets that happen. G-corps purpose was to setup chaos cards so they can be useful once again. Many of which don't control. But the fact that G-corp had control symbols accessed made Control looping an issue. As long as strong control hits the discard pile and can't get fished out we are good. That is why Omar's symbols really don't have a lot of high control symbols other then earth. The cost is 2 damage. This can be a benifit when you get 3 or more lives for the battle out. I'm not saying that all these cards should be banned. What I am saying is that the risk of strong control is being negated by G-corp leader. The risks of G-corp leader can easily be negated. Maybe future strong negation has to go to the RFG pile instead of being destroyed so G-corp can't fish it out. Proficent sniper stops the looping by killing G-corp before it gets into play. If you can't kill G-corp you can't stop Valued but not trusted and other control element looping. Once G-corp is gone it forces the opponent to have to save their control cards for their kill turn. Now their temp is rushed. Now they have to force a kill turn. Thing is I wanted to see a deck list to see how bad this truly is. If deck is truly that awesome then we might as well rollback the early retriement and wade it out. If the deck has a lot of holes and flaws then there is no reason to ban anything and the system is working as intended. If Hata or anyone that playtests could look at the deck and see if the issue was to strong then future counter measures could be produced to make that deck harder to play. High control is there always to mitagate risk. The trade off was that it was to be a 1 time thing. If that premise is gone then high control needs something more perminant to make it only a 1 time thing or the removal of the elements that negate the risk element of of high control.

Thanks for sharing.

Looping control pieces with G-Corp Leader strikes me as more gimmicky than anything else. Eventually you'll overwhelm their G-Corp Leaders, drain them of half their health with their own GCLs, and on top of that, all they're doing is replaying the same control pieces which doesn't really advance their control of the board.

Tagrineth said:

Depends on how much looping you really have to do....all you really need is to say play Memories that stain its armor enough times to keep thier key foundation off the table....or enough Faithful bodyguards to keep you alive until you can go in for the kill

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

Have to hybrid to play Faithful/G-Corp.

Tagrineth said:

Lives for battle doesn't require you to play attacks. It would trigger and possible give you positive net gain. So no they can go without any problem.

ARMed_PIrate said:

I stand corrected, I've also taken more than my share of psychology courses and I know everything you say here is correct and applicable to this situation.

Obviously, in this case I am in the wrong, but clearly just angry with Kiit's prodding. I don't think I can properly convey how much his constant prodding of me, my decks, the way I play (solitaire? still?) and more has gotten to me. So poor is my ability to convey this online that I resorted to emphasizing his childish behavior with a post explaining that 'I hope to do some good, but know I am just fanning the flames'.

I can't ask for you to understand, all I can hope is that my track record as you have noted in the above stands to warrant some trust that my outburst is 'understandable' under the circumstances.

Nothing would make me feel better than to see Kiit and I arrive at some sort of mutual respect for one another, or at least portray that in our posts on the forums. At this point that is all I can really ensure I get across to the forum community.

Thank you for your constructive address of my destructive posts, in response to pointed remarks at me, made in this thread.

- dut

Homme Chapeau said:

X can do it since you know shes soo broken and all