In fact, longtime X-Wing players often refer to the "jousting value" of a given ship, meaning the raw efficiency of its attack, agility, hull, and shield values when compared to the ship's squad point cost and a valuation of the maneuverability of its dial.

Minor correction from the inventor of the term "jousting value" and the method for calculating it:

The "jousting value" doesn't include any measure of the ship's dial, just raw dice mechanics.

In contrast to my original harsh criticism of the Defender's high cost based on the initial preview, FFG has now swung in the other direction. Ironically, given the inflation of the game's power curve due to many other recent additions, the Defender may end up being right about where it needs to be in order to be top-tier competitive without steamrolling the current meta kings.

This will push pre-wave 7 generic jousters even deeper into the grave though.

Well perhaps their jousting value considers to some degree the movement dial. The world does not revolve around you and your numbers.

In fact, longtime X-Wing players often refer to the "jousting value" of a given ship, meaning the raw efficiency of its attack, agility, hull, and shield values when compared to the ship's squad point cost and a valuation of the maneuverability of its dial.

Minor correction from the inventor of the term "jousting value" and the method for calculating it:

The "jousting value" doesn't include any measure of the ship's dial, just raw dice mechanics.

In contrast to my original harsh criticism of the Defender's high cost based on the initial preview, FFG has now swung in the other direction. Ironically, given the inflation of the game's power curve due to many other recent additions, the Defender may end up being right about where it needs to be in order to be top-tier competitive without steamrolling the current meta kings.

This will push pre-wave 7 generic jousters even deeper into the grave though.

Well perhaps their jousting value considers to some degree the movement dial. The world does not revolve around you and your numbers.

He's saying that he coined the term jousting value (true) and that maneuver options have nothing to do with the calculations he used to produce said jousting values (also true). When one uses a term invented and defined by another person, it is generally good practice to keep their definition, or communication becomes very difficult.

For Glaives to be picked alone you need 1 point to be more important than +1 PS and a pilot ability AND you need PS6 and an open EPT slot to be more important than PS5 with a nuts ability. That overlap is pretty small, but one restriction is lifted if taking more than one Defender.

There's also a spot for Glaives if you want all PS6 for some reason, but don't anticipate a squad that supports Vessery very well.

The times to take Glaives vs. the uniques near them is finessed and has many factors (many of which are listed above). I think that's a good thing because automatically wanting to slap down one option always is lame. It's easy to say 'why take Glaives' without thinking in depth on requirements for things like Vessery and the reasons behind taking each of the similar options.

Taking 2 Glaives vs 1 Glaive/1 Countess also doesn't give your opponent a straightforward target. Sometimes giving your opponent multiple choices will make his/her decisions on focus firing more difficult.

Edit: forget Defenders don't get the Evade action. Crisis averted. Phew!

Still, time to warm up the Homing Missiles.

Defenders don't have the Evade action.

THE DARK SIDE GROWS MORE POWERFUL!!!

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Defenders don't have the Evade action.

What was the list? /D and Juke?

Defenders don't have the Evade action.

What was the list? /D and Juke?

No, a poster was thinking Defenders old get double Evades from x7 title.

This will push pre-wave 7 generic jousters even deeper into the grave though.

I, for one, am looking forward to what types of shovels they dig themselves out with!

I would think Marksmanship+Cluster Missile would be better than Calculation+Homing Missile.

Perhaps?

Springtime for Ryad, and the Empire!

Winter, for Rebels, and Scum!

Of all the epts for her vi does almost nothing.

Usually I'd agree, but given the reactive nature of her ability, putting another 1-2PS worth of pilots before her is pretty useful for 1 point. Not saying there aren't better options, but there might not be better options for that 1 point.

A cool List...

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/

He's saying that he coined the term jousting value (true) and that maneuver options have nothing to do with the calculations he used to produce said jousting values (also true). When one uses a term invented and defined by another person, it is generally good practice to keep their definition, or communication becomes very difficult.

As further background, I specifically coined the term "jousting value" because I wanted it to be as obvious as possible that the numbers did not consider the value of the dial (or other non-dice factors), so I picked the word "jousting" as it implies two ships recklessly just flying straight at each other.

He's saying that he coined the term jousting value (true) and that maneuver options have nothing to do with the calculations he used to produce said jousting values (also true). When one uses a term invented and defined by another person, it is generally good practice to keep their definition, or communication becomes very difficult.

As further background, I specifically coined the term "jousting value" because I wanted it to be as obvious as possible that the numbers did not consider the value of the dial (or other non-dice factors), so I picked the word "jousting" as it implies two ships recklessly just flying straight at each other.

Perfect term for the Defenders...

He's saying that he coined the term jousting value (true) and that maneuver options have nothing to do with the calculations he used to produce said jousting values (also true). When one uses a term invented and defined by another person, it is generally good practice to keep their definition, or communication becomes very difficult.

As further background, I specifically coined the term "jousting value" because I wanted it to be as obvious as possible that the numbers did not consider the value of the dial (or other non-dice factors), so I picked the word "jousting" as it implies two ships recklessly just flying straight at each other.

Perfect term for the Defenders...

Well, not all of them fly straight...

Now instead of just a "why Glaive instead of Vessery" question, it's a "why Glaive instead of Maarek" question. That 1 point buys you a PS and a decent ability over a Glaive.

Cluster missiles and Guidance chips? Chips on the second attack - after you've hopefully stripped shields with the first - give him predator for rerolls...

So my question is where does Rexlar fit into all of this? He may not have the best synergy with the titles and his ability isn't the coolest but he is still gonna be the best option for a high PS defender, and while sure veterans is gonna really boost the standing of defenders as it stands in most imp lists either you are a cracktie, a palpmobile, or a high ps dodgy/tokeny ace. Think an x7 rexlar can stand up with the rest of the aces?

Now instead of just a "why Glaive instead of Vessery" question, it's a "why Glaive instead of Maarek" question. That 1 point buys you a PS and a decent ability over a Glaive.

Cluster missiles and Guidance chips? Chips on the second attack - after you've hopefully stripped shields with the first - give him predator for rerolls...

even better reason to use Vess

double mods independent of chips

no, Glaives you use because 1 point is huge in a game where crackshot exists. If you're not going to enable vess, might as well grab a glaive (or countess)

So my question is where does Rexlar fit into all of this? He may not have the best synergy with the titles and his ability isn't the coolest but he is still gonna be the best option for a high PS defender, and while sure veterans is gonna really boost the standing of defenders as it stands in most imp lists either you are a cracktie, a palpmobile, or a high ps dodgy/tokeny ace. Think an x7 rexlar can stand up with the rest of the aces?

Rexler will see just as much usage after Imperial Vets as he did before Imperial Vets.

That is one hideously powerful ability. Might now threaten aces that much, but having four green K-turns to choose from is amazing, and against anything PS1-4 this is downright murderous. Can't see myself taking a Glaive over Ryad now.

The PS 5 will be the limiting factor though.

I'm actually surprised they didn't give Marek Steel a Red TIE-Defender.

I think, as you suggest, that Rex has a role as the highest PS Defender. This is not insignificant. You can go cheap and do x7/Juke or high end and get Ion/D. VI is an option for both of these, but 8 is solid these days, it seems.

The biggest change for Rex is that I won't automatically reach for a HLC when I field him. With D and x7 as options I won't be stuck thinking of that half my points are already spent, just that I'm starting at PS8.

He's saying that he coined the term jousting value (true) and that maneuver options have nothing to do with the calculations he used to produce said jousting values (also true). When one uses a term invented and defined by another person, it is generally good practice to keep their definition, or communication becomes very difficult.

As further background, I specifically coined the term "jousting value" because I wanted it to be as obvious as possible that the numbers did not consider the value of the dial (or other non-dice factors), so I picked the word "jousting" as it implies two ships recklessly just flying straight at each other.

And I think, as your Maths Version 3.0987438945039859302 takes into account, that printed stats are less and less useful to math out as the game continues to expand. Jousting turned into "3 pillars: Swarm, Ace/Arc Dodge, Turret" and now we're even past that.

Jousting was the thing we did before we could other things. Now that we can do other things it's really not a good tactic in most situations. Jousting doesn't exist anymore in modern Xwing.

BUT

I do agree with you that we should have at least 1 example in the game (and preferably 1 every faction) that is just STUPID good because of printed stats and forces you to do something besides joust to beat it. It should probably be the xwing for rebels but we know it's not there, the Tie Fighter for the Imperials (which is right there), and who knows what for Scum...K-Fighters?

Post Imperial Vetran's the Defender doesn't just Joust. It has superior Positional Abilities in white (or now green) kturns, Hyper action economy due to those easy Ks AND one of the titles gives you a free action OR DOUBLE ATTACK, AND it has all the slots needed to be combo-rific, AND all the named pilots have very powerful abilities. When they "recklessly fly towards you and exchange dice" + get extra actions + something more you've gone beyond jousting.

Jousting didn't care about options or skill. Now we have so many options to apply our skills to that we can beat the math many times.

BUT

The math does a great job of predicting "duds". AND is essential to know, at least at the base level, so that you can apply your skill to the right option.

And I think, as your Maths Version 3.14159265359 takes into account...

FIXED.

Extremely disappointed in you, Rakky...

As further background, I specifically coined the term "jousting value" because I wanted it to be as obvious as possible that the numbers did not consider the value of the dial (or other non-dice factors), so I picked the word "jousting" as it implies two ships recklessly just flying straight at each other.

And I think, as your Maths Version 3.0987438945039859302 takes into account, that printed stats are less and less useful to math out as the game continues to expand.

...

The math does a great job of predicting "duds". AND is essential to know, at least at the base level, so that you can apply your skill to the right option.

I disagree with the "less useful" line because of the "great job of predicting" line.

Jousting value is useful, even if nobody jousts, because it gives you a sense of how good the intangibles have to be before the ship becomes effective. If a ship lands with a 50% jousting value, you know it's going to need Echo's decloaks, Lorir's barrel roll, Juno and Tycho's ability, and Epsilon Ace's PS before it has a chance at making those points back. Likewise, if the numbers say 130%, then you know you can just drop the generics on the table and go.

Serious? That was unexpected as hell.

Ryad is cheaper than the current named pilots AND better. Green Kturns are you kidding me? That completely negates the issue i noticed with Defenders having a real hard time removing stress tokens w/o Twin Ion Mk2. That defender now doesnt care about stress unless it gets stacked.

And now everyone will have Ryad, probably as much as Soontir if not more lol

.. Its not like Ryad auto wins vs stuff. Like Soontir. And Whisper will fly around her for days. And Han will boost around her for days. And scouts will turn 1 kill her for a single day.

whats with all the fuss??