I still havn't seen The Force Awakens.

Havn't been able to afford the DVD yet.

'course, t'was my birthday today...

I still havn't seen The Force Awakens.

Havn't been able to afford the DVD yet.

'course, t'was my birthday today...

you are deprived. I will watch it a 5th time in your memory and send good feelings telepathically

I always knew there were still people out there that promoted gender roles so heavily, but it's still seriously jarring to see it said so bluntly. Like... dude. Wow...

I still havn't seen The Force Awakens.

Havn't been able to afford the DVD yet.

'course, t'was my birthday today...

We should all put up the money!

I still havn't seen The Force Awakens.

Havn't been able to afford the DVD yet.

'course, t'was my birthday today...

We should all put up the money!

I've seen what he charges for commissions. He can buy his own blu ray

I still havn't seen The Force Awakens.

Havn't been able to afford the DVD yet.

'course, t'was my birthday today...

We should all put up the money!

I've seen what he charges for commissions. He can buy his own blu ray

$5 a Squadron isn't even Minimum Wage, mate. And I've got a 2-Year old

Bias has no place at my table or in the community at large.

Leave your prejudice and insecurities at the door/keyboard.

Not all ideas or "values" are worth equal consideration.

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Not all ideas or "values" are worth equal consideration.

Not all opinions are valid in the modern world

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Not all ideas or "values" are worth equal consideration.

this is a very Bigoted statment...

It's perfectly acceptable to be intolerant of views that are detrimental to society as a whole.

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Not all ideas or "values" are worth equal consideration.

this is a very Bigoted statment...

It's perfectly acceptable to be intolerant of views that are detrimental to society as a whole.

I never once said "you were wrong" or called someone sexist or said "my view is the only correct view"

You may disagree with my statements but if you actually read them none of them are bigoted

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Not all ideas or "values" are worth equal consideration.

this is a very Bigoted statment...

No, it's not. Rejecting prejudice is not, in itself, prejudice.

You practice this very thing yourself, as you have stated here. You reject ideas based on what your religious leaders tell you. You want me to be accepting of this, if I don't then you call it bigoted -- yet you also want the freedom to reject ideas that don't align with your religious ones. That's actually hypocritical.

Nobody's ideas or beliefs are above evaluation or criticism. Constant evaluation and criticism allows society to adapt and change, it allows us to move towards the idealism of freedom and equality in countries where these are desired values and goals.

I do not agree with LDS' stance that interracial marriage should be actively discouraged, as an example. It's not an idea worth considering as having any merit, in my opinion. That doesn't make me bigoted. That makes me a thinking person that considers the idea and determines it is not worth implementing (that it is, in fact, racist, harmful and morally wrong).

I have no problem with you pursuing your own beliefs and practices in your personal life.

I do not have to accept you trying to apply your beliefs and practices to my life.

I'm proud of how the community came out on this one and let people know those types of statements aren't welcome and I respect jhox for trying to have a productive conversation on the matter. I wouldn't have wanted to be part of a community that just turned away from a statement like Clon's and say "Well, he's entitled to his opinion, we have to respect that."

That said, we should probably let it die now. No further good can come of stringing it along.

That said, we should probably let it die now. No further good can come of stringing it along.

To be honest, I think this thread is the best place for the conversation to continue. It's in Off-Topic anyway, and it's probably better for everyone to express their thoughts as much as they want - so long as it all stays civil.

I agree with you, though, I too am really glad people are willing to challenge ideas they believe are damaging and remain mostly (couple of exceptions) polite about it in doing so. Just because you don't agree with someone, doesn't mean they deserve to be treated poorly.

I find it funny to see how some people see the force, aliens, lightsabers and laser guns all acceptable science fiction, but somehow a female protagonist is too much.

If you think a female in a strong leading role is so unrealistic, can't you just take that as part of the fantasy of the star wars universe?

To be honest, I think this thread is the best place for the conversation to continue. It's in Off-Topic anyway, and it's probably better for everyone to express their thoughts as much as they want - so long as it all stays civil.

I've been following this discussion from the start and just wanted the 'community' to know that I have found the original thread a valuable lesson in regards to assuming that everyone else is living in the same century as oneself. Some of the arguments levelled against women either as a gender or as, in some cases, personal insults have truly shocked me. To be honest I am disappointed to read some of the remarks posted and some of the opinions espoused by members of the community. Unfortunately it will be a while before I can read particular members posts without associating them with the views they have expressed, which is a shame.

Unfortunately it will be a while before I can read particular members posts without associating them with the views they have expressed, which is a shame.

I'm a vegetarian, for moral reasons - I like to joke that I hate animals and refuse to eat ethically-sourced meat. But I'm happy to sit down at a meal with my friends whilst they tuck into juicy steaks. I mean, I suppose technically what they're doing is immoral based on my own views, but... somehow that doesn't mean they're bad people. It's a weird contradiction that I justify by saying to myself "it's a personal choice."

I suppose a person's views on women don't mean much about their participation in the game of Armada, so I'm fine with engaging with them on the forums in general and just trying to put my own issues with their beliefs to the back of my mind.

That being said... yeah, I know exactly what you mean. There will always be that voice shouting from the back of my mind "But they're literally worse than Hitler and King Herod combined!" (That happens to be my view of anyone who disagrees with me on literally any subject, by the way.)

It's tough.

"... Hitler and King Herod combined!"

Missed my opportunity, taking it back:

King Hitlod.

To be honest, I think this thread is the best place for the conversation to continue. It's in Off-Topic anyway, and it's probably better for everyone to express their thoughts as much as they want - so long as it all stays civil.

I've been following this discussion from the start and just wanted the 'community' to know that I have found the original thread a valuable lesson in regards to assuming that everyone else is living in the same century as oneself. Some of the arguments levelled against women either as a gender or as, in some cases, personal insults have truly shocked me. To be honest I am disappointed to read some of the remarks posted and some of the opinions espoused by members of the community. Unfortunately it will be a while before I can read particular members posts without associating them with the views they have expressed, which is a shame.

It would greatly help to nourish the discussion if you could elaborate a bit on what shocked you exactly, and why. Just stating that "some" given opinions disappointed you in a way and that you will need time before not connecting any other statement of those who apparently shall not be named with the disappointment is just not a very good conversation technique at all.

Mind as well that not everybody at this board is a native speaker of english language - topics like this one are already difficult enough to discuss in your own language, so there is a big chance for translation errors that somehow shift the meaning further.

To be honest, I think this thread is the best place for the conversation to continue. It's in Off-Topic anyway, and it's probably better for everyone to express their thoughts as much as they want - so long as it all stays civil.

I've been following this discussion from the start and just wanted the 'community' to know that I have found the original thread a valuable lesson in regards to assuming that everyone else is living in the same century as oneself. Some of the arguments levelled against women either as a gender or as, in some cases, personal insults have truly shocked me. To be honest I am disappointed to read some of the remarks posted and some of the opinions espoused by members of the community. Unfortunately it will be a while before I can read particular members posts without associating them with the views they have expressed, which is a shame.

It would greatly help to nourish the discussion if you could elaborate a bit on what shocked you exactly, and why. Just stating that "some" given opinions disappointed you in a way and that you will need time before not connecting any other statement of those who apparently shall not be named with the disappointment is just not a very good conversation technique at all.

Mind as well that not everybody at this board is a native speaker of english language - topics like this one are already difficult enough to discuss in your own language, so there is a big chance for translation errors that somehow shift the meaning further.

Apologies Hesekiel, the vagueness of my post was an attempt to make my feelings known whilst not re-igniting the whole debate. Personally I am still shocked when such narrow minded, and (I feel personally) outdated views are espoused in regards to sex and gender, in the same way I feel that there is no place for racist and homophobic viewpoints in a forward thinking society.

Unfortunately, every now and again I am reminded that we don't actually live in a forward thinking society and that when you look at the bigger picture there are still battles being fought that should have been settled many years ago. In terms of any perceived language barriers... I blame that squarely on our American friends. We gave them the language, it was their choice to 'fiddle' with it!

Personally, I try and stay optimistic. This situation is a good example. The amount of people that stepped forward to disparage the remarks that were made were many and the amount of people that stepped to defend the remarks, or to add to them, were few.

There will always be outliers to progress but their influence is constantly waning.

Strange as it may seem, I'd like to actually defend clontroper5 for a moment.

While I disagree with his cultural feminism , I do believe that his heart is in the right place. Because I believe his heart is in the right place, I also think that eventually a synthesis of his beliefs with those of more mainstream feminist ideas is possible, even if that seems impossibly remote these days.

I also think that the barrier to that synthesis comes from the presumption of ill will on the part of the other side. Even in our conviction for our own beliefs, let's set aside the vilification and see where the other person is coming from.

Took my Kid to Speech Therapy today...

First Question after I log him in at the Health Center.

"So where's his Mother?"

Urgh.

Took my Kid to Speech Therapy today...

First Question after I log him in at the Health Center.

"So where's his Mother?"

Did you glare at the person and say: "right here!" ?

Strange as it may seem, I'd like to actually defend clontroper5 for a moment.

While I disagree with his cultural feminism , I do believe that his heart is in the right place. Because I believe his heart is in the right place, I also think that eventually a synthesis of his beliefs with those of more mainstream feminist ideas is possible, even if that seems impossibly remote these days.

I also think that the barrier to that synthesis comes from the presumption of ill will on the part of the other side. Even in our conviction for our own beliefs, let's set aside the vilification and see where the other person is coming from.

I can agree with your point, but as the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.