As the Topic Title asks: Why are there no Advanced Specialities for Devastators?

I have gone through the all the Deathwatch RPG books and have found nothing for Devastator players to make them stand out at Rank 4+ for their chosen path.

a.) Have I missed something, somewhere? {The only Deathwatch RPG book (so to speak) I do not possess is the long out-of-print DW: Game Master's Kit.}

b.) Or was it because of the book-line's end (until a Second Edition reboot comes), before one could be added? {I doubt that, given the number of books.}

c.) Or does the system simply not favor Devastators? Subtly discouraging the players from playing the heavy weapon specialists because they have nothing to look forward to at the higher Ranks (4+)?

You mean nothing beyond becoming...
1) Champions
2) Chaplains
3) Dreadnoughts

4) Keepers

5) Kill-Marines

6) Watch-Captains
7) First Company Veterans
etc.

In fact... where are these "Advanced Specialties" that are linked to any specific classes except for Forge-Master, Epistolary, and the Chapter specific ones?
Devastators have the same freedom of choice as anyone else, sure there are no special advances for them but then again only two classes get that anyway (see above) and they are highly specialized to begin with.

My problem with this issue is one part mechanic and two parts thematic.

Champions and Chaplains, both mechanically and thematically, favor melee combat. So not Devastator-friendly. And I have never seen or heard of an Astartes Chaplain (story- and figurine-wise) wading into combat with a Heavy Bolter.

Dreadnaughts, while by default are heavy-weapon-carrying, are not really distinctive to being a heavy weapon specialist, or something most Astartes to aspire towards (such as becoming a Champion or Chaplain or a Captain).

Keepers, while technically open to all classes, are also not thematic or distinctive to Devastators. Also, given that a melee (power) weapon is added to their Wargear, it is another subtle hint that Keepers should be melee-friendly (and thus not Devastator-friendly).

Kill-Marines need to be mobile, if not stealthy, as well as mostly independent due to scarce resources/support. Again, not Devastator-friendly.

Watch Captains are also technically open to all. But again, the addition of a melee weapon (chainsword) to Wargear hints at not being well-suited for Devastators. Also again, I have never heard of any Astartes Captains leading the charge whilst lugging a Heavy Weapon along.

Even the majority of Chapter-specific Advanced Specialities seem to favor a melee-based Basic Speciality. Heck, even illustrations all show melee-favored.

My issue is that nothing I have read or seen says, "That would be great for a (Rank 4+) Devastator!", like the Epistolary &/or Forge Master for their respective Basic Specialities. Likewise, the Advanced Speciality options that are technically open for Devastators, seem to have a need to give-up their heavy weapon(s) in order to fulfill their duties in the Advanced Speciality.

Thus why I wonder what is the worth of playing a Devastator if either there is no Advanced Speciality to enhance being a Heavy Weapons Specialist and make them distinctive to their chosen path.

So your gripe is that the Devastators get no extra, special love to make them feel better about choosing to wield the biggest, most badass weaponry available to the Adeptus Astartes on the field of battle? If you want to be make your Devastator...

enhance being a Heavy Weapons Specialist and make them distinctive to their chosen path.

then just stick with the base Advance scheme and screw the Specialties, although I must point out that you are being really close-minded about a lot of them.

The Advanced Specialty system is supposed to represent a divergence from the norm that your character takes because of personal choices, even the class-specific ones like Epistolary and Forge-Master. They are stepping stones for going higher into the Chapter or Deathwatch Command structure and are reflected as such. Calling Melee Weapon Training (Power) a hint that Watch-Captains are not suited to Devastators is chuckle-worthy man, especially when you consider that in lore Captains exist that continue their use of Heavy Weapons from their Devastator days.

But even so, the thing you are forgetting is that Space Marines are not supposed to be one-note warriors. Devastators are the first thing a Marine may become, but the graduation to Assault, Tactical and eventually Sergeant or higher is a fundamental step in an Astartes' development. If you want to roleplay a dedicated Devastator character then... just stay a Devastator.

The only thing that, thematically, is a Devastator is a Devastator.

There is no strict "upgrade" for the Devastator like the Epistolary or Forge Master for there is no normal structure where a Devastator aspires to be more than a Devastator.

That aside becoming a First Company Veteran is as much as a regular Astartes can become without attaining an officer or specialist role and that is available to you.

As for the melee weapons you receive, don't think to much about them - for some roles they are first and foremost a Badge of Office and do not force you to go straight into melee. (Just think how well it would work out if the Chainsword Sergeant of a Tactical Squad always charged into melee just because he had a Chainsword, leaving the Guys, he is supposed to lead, behind him for they still keep shooting.)

The Champions entry is also open for any kind of combat approach, they mainly focus on melee but having a focus on ranged is no problem either and you might get access to several nice talents. (That aside you should have a decent WS anyway.)

Of the two SWHero one is dedicated to weapons and you can get a nice tool for 70 Requisition with some nice armor on top. As for the Xenos Bane talent I would also allow the Toxic part to work with ranged Weapons. One could only argue that Champion for 4000 EXP is rather overpriced compared to other, more power creepy AS.

For Dark Angels and their Successors, there is the Deathwing, which works very well for a Devastator.

The problem is that in the fluff (and TT), higher-ranked and named characters are consistently set up as melee-oriented (with the exception of the Raptors Chapter Master and maybe some scout sergeants). That said, the only specialisation in DW which is inherently choppy is, unsurprisingly, the Champion. Getting a power weapon is not an indicator of obligatory CC focus in itself, as it had been pointed out very concisely:

As for the melee weapons you receive, don't think to much about them - for some roles they are first and foremost a Badge of Office and do not force you to go straight into melee.

Just think of the Techmarines: while they do get the Omnissian Axe at some point to prance around with, it still it takes them ages to get into melee distance, so in my experience they still chiefly rely on their ranged arsenal.

Keepers, Chaplains and Watch Captains do get default CC weapons (although in the last case it's only a chainsword), but their special abilities and advancement tables don't really favour melee over ranged combat - and the Dead Station Vigilant or First Company Veteran specialities are even less predisposed towards either form. Perhaps the latter is the best for a Devastator, if you want to take an Advanced Specialisation solely with combat ability enhancement in mind.

Dreadnoughts and Kill-Marines are special cases, as the first has a very specific and narrow set of prerequisites, and the other appears to be exclusively created for solo gameplay, so I exclude them from this list.

As a devastator I feel your pain. I ended up emphasizing my UMness more than my devastatorness because of the lack of speciality. There are very few shooting skills to pick up each rank. You can't really signature your weapon because A) they're expensive and B) you can't take it with you to terminator.

I agree that most of the advance tables are bent around melee and you're losing some efficiency trying to cram yourself into the mold.

I don't thinl a "champion" equivalent for the devastator is really needed. He already HAS all the skills he needs access to - just like the assault marine compared to the champion.

The goodies on top are a bit meh but the "poison" mechani of the champion also works for the devastator. Even more the devastator would get access for several talents he cant get otherwise resulting in the Devastator become more allrounded and overall having more value in the champion.

And I cant see how the devastator is in any way more or less problematic in terms of taking signature wargear. Taking a suit of tactical terminator armor alone might not be an option for a mission so I would never signature dedicated terminator wargear.

And I cant see how the devastator is in any way more or less problematic in terms of taking signature wargear. Taking a suit of tactical terminator armor alone might not be an option for a mission so I would never signature dedicated terminator wargear.

You can not signature terminator weapons/armor. See the errata.

You can not signature terminator weapons/armor. See the errata.

I was speaking about dedicated terminator wargear. Not including the Armor.

(a & b) Almost all of the existing advanced specialties can be taken by Devastators.

© Devastators in my experience mulch through enemies. The system loves them.

I have a Devastator character who has taken 1st Company Veteran and Deathwing Veteran. It's a high powered game, so we could each pick up to two deeds and up to two advanced specialties. He's a murder machine. With Ballistic Skill and a few choice talents sorted, I can pick and choose anything else I want for the character (mostly Intelligence, lores and tech skills).

As the Topic Title asks: Why are there no Advanced Specialities for Devastators?

As a fan of the Devastator myself I understand your sentiments on Devastator advancment, IMHO you should look at houseruling Centurion Armour and the best thing that might suit. perhaps if another Book came into being it might get written up but until then...

Well, what advances do you want for devs? I could see something like "horde suppression' that lets him target priority targets in a horde to have, say, extra effect on the horde by taking out leaders, prominent targets, etc. It might add to the damage done to a horde. Or the dev could target special/heavy weapons in a horde and take them out at the cost of doing less general damage to the horde as a whole.\

TBH, I was always a little surprised there never was a tank ace sort of advance, would fit well with a devastator with a vehicles heavy weapons...course if you want to have fun, you can always take the kill marine advance, and now you have a suave, stealthy devastator....surprise balefire gun to the face!

On the old tabletop game at least one version hed tank hunters as an option tthat gave devs an advantage against vehicles.

I know various Marines serve in the Devastator teams, but one question is "do they stay there?" Every Astartes starts out as a Neophyte, and then most become Scouts, before moving up to Tac, Assault, or something else. Serving in the Devastator teams is fine, but I think they view it as temporary, expecting you to, someday, move up in the world. Maybe Marneus Calgar was once a Devastator Marine, but then he got elevated to a higher spot, earned his Crux Terminatus, and his Iron Halo, and became a Captain, a Force Commander, and then, the Ultramarines Chapter Master, and if we can expect it from Papa Smurf, you might, too. You might get a character who insists on staying a scout, like Telion, or Darkstar, of the Tau, for an even better example of "what do you mean he refused promotion (again)?"

Otherwise, as they said, the codex doesn't really have an advance for the Dev Marines. They don't have a special character, or a higher echelon. Maybe you'd get up to Centurion armor, or accept the promotion to Terminator, which is about as slow, and can mount some varieties of heavy weapon-analogues to their tactical dreadnought suits. Maybe you'll get to a tank, and your skills with whatever heavies will carry over to its mounted weapons. For the most part, though, I'd say the Astartes expects you to get promoted, and move up, from the Dev Companies. It's up to you, of course.

Yeah, apparently devs are expected to move up. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Devastator_Marine .

Here's an idea for a devastator marine: Datalink. it would allow a dev to link to a specialist marine like a tech marine or an apocathery. If both marines take an action, they can link and the tech marine can make a roll to advise the dev on the best place to shoot a machine or mechanical unit, and an apocathery can advise on the best spot to shoot a biological target like a squiggoth or a tyranid. If they both succeed in their roll, the dev must use his datalink skill and the other marine must succeed in an appropriate roll, the dev can add the average of their two int bonuses to his penetration and damage values for that one shot.It must be a single shot, not autofire.

it basically takes two marines working together to make it work, both must succeed in their roll and it works once per battle.

how's that for a dev upgrade? it's not huge but it could make one shot really effective at a critical moment.

Here is something I can up with for Devastators. It still needs to be play tested and balanced. Let me know what you guys think:

Deathwatch Heavy Weapons Specialist

Requirements : Rank 4, Marksman’s Honour, Marksman, Target Selection

Cost : 4000xp

Wargear : Fire Storm Multi-melta, half requisition for all heavy weapons ammunition

Special Ability : Shredder of armour

The Heavy weapon specialist is a master of bringing down opponent's armor. If he performs a called shot and succeeds in hitting the target, he brings that location’s armour down by half his unmodified BS (rounding up) for half his rank (rounding up) rounds.

Intimidate Special Use : Bolter Diplomacy

The Heavy weapon specialist lets his prodigious skill with his heavy bolter do that talking. As a half action he may attempt opposed intimidate test using his Ballistic skill vs opponents Willpower to shoot at the opponent’s viscinity. If he is successful the target is intimidated by the battle brother’s prowess. If the battle-brother fails his Ballistic Skill Check by 3 or more degrees he unintentionally shoots his target consider the every degree above 3 as an additional hit.

Advance Cost Type Prerequisites

Demolition 400 S

Demolition +10 600 S Demolition

Demolition +20 600 S Demolition +10

Tech-Use 800 S

Tech-Use +10 800 S Tech-Use

Tech-Use +20 1000 S Tech-Use +10

Eye of Vengeance 1500 T BS 50

Sharpshooter 1000 T BS 40, Deadeye Shot

Heavy Weapon Artificer* (x3) 2000 T Trade (Armourer) +10

Heavy Weapon Maester* (x3) 2000 T BS 60

New Talent : Heavy Weapon Artificer

The Battle-Brother is so accustomed to firing and maintaining his heavy weapons that through sheer rot he is able to make them function better. This Talent upgrades the battle brother’s standard gear or Signature Wargear weapon’s craftsmanship by 1 degree, so common becomes good, good becomes best. A particular weapon must be chosen. The same weapon can be chosen again or a different weapon may be chosen.

New Talent : Heavy Weapon Maester

The Battle-Brother knows the strengths and limits of his weapons. When firing a particular heavy weapon he gains +2 damage and +2 penetration with that weapon. This may be chosen again for a different weapon with a total of 3 heavy weapons.

I used the Intimidate specifically for one of my players. I know its not really WH40K vibe perhaps people could suggest something to replace it.

From what I've experienced so far, the Devastator has been the bane of every challenge I have sent against the players. Maybe at the higher levels this changes, I haven't reached that point yet, but right now I would dread my Devastator coming to me with an advanced specialty that makes the Devastator deadlier.

How about horde buster? The dev boy has a keen eye for sublte or momentary concentrations of forces in a horde. He can target his fire for optimum effect on concentrations of enemies. When firing on a horde he gains enhanced effect. He can choose to do.more damage to a horde's magnitude or to its morale, nakibg it more likely they will retreast. The mechanics can be up to the game group usibg it.

I'm making a conversion of centurion armour from TT to RPG. Stay tuned! Maybe I will make some adv speciality like Breacher for some siege drill bunker busting madness.

I'm making a conversion of centurion armour from TT to RPG. Stay tuned! Maybe I will make some adv speciality like Breacher for some siege drill bunker busting madness.

We have at least one thread about Centurion: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/94063-centurion-armor/ - maybe some ideas will be helpful for you.

the death watch heavy weapons specialist exists... it's called the devestator. IMHO I'd say the most logical path would be to terminator armor. terminators can mount a fair number of heavy weapons after all.