lol Hey is that the same Dee Yun from Dave the Direman?

The very same! Mistakes were made.

At least we don't have players expecting others to concede them into top 8 due to "tenure" .

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/11th-in-houston-with-jeskai-black/

Oh jeez "He didn't let me into top 8 by conceding when he was under no obligation to so screw him forever." Makes 'Pro' Magic sound like some sort of Good 'ol Boys club where if you don't play along by the 'rules' (i.e. concede to manipulate tournament results) you're a pariah. Lovely place.

MtG tournaments make Sumo Wrestling (formerly believed to be completely legit, sumo wrestling was shown to be rigged more often than not; go read your Freakonomics) look like a paragon of virtue, gamesmanship, and a "let the best man win" ethos.

Round 1:Player 2 beats sozin.

Round 2:Player 1 beats sozin (sorry sozin, it's nothing personal!)

Round 1:Player 2 beats sozin.

Round 2:Player 1 beats sozin (sorry sozin, it's nothing personal!)

Shoulda listened to mynock squadron's latest podcast and played even better!

Round 1:Player 2 beats sozin.

Round 2:Player 1 beats sozin (sorry sozin, it's nothing personal!)

Hey at least I kept playing even though I went on to lose my round 3 as well, apparently you rage quit!

<------- note no sozin present in round 3!

Round 1:Player 2 beats sozin.

Round 2:Player 1 beats sozin (sorry sozin, it's nothing personal!)

Hey at least I kept playing even though I went on to lose my round 3 as well, apparently you rage quit!

Round 1:

Player 1 loses to pheaver

Player 2 beats sozin.

mj and hothie both win their matches

Round 2:

Player 1 beats sozin (sorry sozin, it's nothing personal!)

Player 2 beats majorjugger

pheaver and hothie win their matches

Rankings:

Player 2: 2-0

pheaver: 2-0

hothie: 2-0

mj: 1-1

player 1: 1-1

sozin: 0-2

There should be 1 more 2-0 player, 3 more 0-2 players, and 6 more 1-1 players if I'm doing the math in my head right (assuming no modified wins or draws for simplicity).

Round 3:

Player 1 beats majorjuggler

Player 2 beats hothie

pheaver beats the remaining 2-0 player

<------- note no sozin present in round 3!

I would have dropped as well if I had just lost back to back to a couple of goons named Player One and Player Two.

At least we don't have players expecting others to concede them into top 8 due to "tenure" .

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/11th-in-houston-with-jeskai-black/

#$%^ Magic.

What i dont understand is why people still think that mov reflects anything. As i see it, the better the opponent is, the harder it will be to have a high MOV at the end of the game. If i am playing against better players i expect the games to be tighter (that is why i also dislike the mod win, its a win or is not) and if i am paired with worst players i expecto to end the game with a high score. It obviously happens that you can always get a 100-0 off of PHeaver, but thats not usual. Thats why i also support the thinking that a player going 4-0 into the last round usually has more credits for making the cut than the one on the loosers braket no matter the difference in the move the 3-1 player has over the 4-0.

What i dont understand is why people still think that mov reflects anything. As i see it, the better the opponent is, the harder it will be to have a high MOV at the end of the game. If i am playing against better players i expect the games to be tighter (that is why i also dislike the mod win, its a win or is not) and if i am paired with worst players i expecto to end the game with a high score. It obviously happens that you can always get a 100-0 off of PHeaver, but thats not usual. Thats why i also support the thinking that a player going 4-0 into the last round usually has more credits for making the cut than the one on the loosers braket no matter the difference in the move the 3-1 player has over the 4-0.

But if you don'tt hink MoV is a good tie-breaker, the answer is to just change the tie-breaker, not to just allow IDs to ignore it. And there's a lot of factors that will affect MoV besides simply player skill. Luck is part of it, as are the lists in question. A list with a big advantage over their opponent at the top table will probably get more MoV than a list that's disadvantaged against their opponent at a lower table, despite theoretically having the "easier" opponent at the lower table.

Why sure, I'd love to completely derail this conversation

Does anyone know if the final match is available to watch anywhere? I'd love to see it.

Thanks!

Is there a place with more lists from the event? Would really like to know, what the list of the rac+whisper player in rank 9 looks like.

I'm a proponent of Intentional Draw. I like it in Magic, and I like it here. I think having a judge nearby when asking is legit too, because it literally should only ever be:

"I'd like to draw, will you agree to?"

--opponent answer--

Do what opponent answers.

Early on, until people understand how it works some explanation of how IDs work is warranted, but the judges should be the ones to explain (as long as they understand it). They should also be impartial to the decision: I hate it when judges inject their opinion when discussing official rules questions. The judge should never say "It is a good idea to draw here" or "I don't like draws on principle".

Preface about me so you know where I come from: I'm a decent Magic player. Never got to be a regular tournament winner, but I make it far enough usually to warrant some level of respect from the people who are much better than I am and was included in their conversations. I met and hung out with a bunch of pros (friend of a friend thing) and while there is a definite clique thing going on there (I certainly felt like an outsider) it is actually grounded in something real: these people live and breathe Magic. The amount of time and effort they put in to make essentially poverty wages is insane.

Some brief points about IDs:

Rarely will there ever be "no reason for a final round" if ever. Swiss rounds are determined in a fashion where its generally only the top two or four players are going to be secure in their ability to draw in, and the more players with a modified win or draw from previous rounds, the fewer IDs can happen in the final round.

You are never a bad person for refusing an ID. The math can be complex, you don't have a lot of time to decide, and unless you are really sure that you are for sure in you shouldn't take an ID from an opponent that is currently ranked higher than you.

I read a lot of scenarios where people are trying to decide if an ID is "fair" to players based on what happened in the previous tournament rounds. That is ridiculous. The only thing that matters is the round you are in. While that might seem overly competitive to some, it really relieves a lot of stress trying to decide who "deserves" to be in the cut. This is probably the thing that grinds my gears the most: there is no such thing as deserves to be top 8 but didn't make it in.

IDs are not an example of bad sportsmanship. In Magic, being at the top tables and knowing if you crush your opponent your friend might be able to make it in is called dreamcrushing in the circles I've seen, where an ID is offering a chance for you and your opponent to help each other make it in. It can go both ways, depending on your point of view.

IDs reward players who have done well in the previous part of the tournament. If the game means almost nothing (both players will make it in regardless of the outcome) it gives those players a chance to rest, recharge, and maybe cheer on their friends for the final round.

Mostly when I see this forum debate intentional drawing, I see a lot of people that don't really understand the implications of it. IDs can only happen if you've been playing well all day.

*Edited for some clarity*

Is there a place with more lists from the event? Would really like to know, what the list of the rac+whisper player in rank 9 looks like.

Drew Bishop's list I think?

Whisper+VI, Agent K, ACD, FCS

Chirpy + VI + Gunner + Vader + Engine

Jakku Open (France) won by Palp aces:

Omicron, palpatine

Inquisitor, PTL, AT, V1, prockets

Soontir, PTL, AT, SD

Final was palp aces vs triple scouts.

semi final was

triple scouts vs guri + dengar?

palp aces vs crackswarm

I lost in the semi against palp aces with my Crackshot Academy:

5 blacks crackshot

2 academies

Went 7-2 in swiss then won against palp + inquisitor + whisper for a place in the top 4.

I'm a proponent of Intentional Draw. I like it in Magic, and I like it here. I think having a judge nearby when asking is legit too, because it literally should only ever be:

The thing is, the majority of players of the game do not want this to be Magic.

Jakku Open (France) won by Palp aces:

Omicron, palpatine

Inquisitor, PTL, AT, V1, prockets

Soontir, PTL, AT, SD

Final was palp aces vs triple scouts.

semi final was

triple scouts vs guri + dengar?

palp aces vs crackswarm

I lost in the semi against palp aces with my Crackshot Academy:

5 blacks crackshot

2 academies

Went 7-2 in swiss then won against palp + inquisitor + whisper for a place in the top 4.

Thanks for the report! A couple quick questions:

1. Do you know how many players were there?
2. Do you know the winning player's name?
3. To confirm, the winning list was at 98 points?

The winner is Fernando de la Torre from Spain. 3 Spanish players were in top 4 though one of them lives in Switzerland I think...

I'm a proponent of Intentional Draw. I like it in Magic, and I like it here. I think having a judge nearby when asking is legit too, because it literally should only ever be:

"I'd like to draw, will you agree to?"

--opponent answer--

Do what opponent answers.

Early on, until people understand how it works some explanation of how IDs work is warranted, but the judges should be the ones to explain (as long as they understand it). They should also be impartial to the decision: I hate it when judges inject their opinion when discussing official rules questions. The judge should never say "It is a good idea to draw here" or "I don't like draws on principle".

Preface about me so you know where I come from: I'm a decent Magic player. Never got to be a regular tournament winner, but I make it far enough usually to warrant some level of respect from the people who are much better than I am and was included in their conversations. I met and hung out with a bunch of pros (friend of a friend thing) and while there is a definite clique thing going on there (I certainly felt like an outsider) it is actually grounded in something real: these people live and breathe Magic. The amount of time and effort they put in to make essentially poverty wages is insane.

Some brief points about IDs:

Rarely will there ever be "no reason for a final round" if ever. Swiss rounds are determined in a fashion where its generally only the top two or four players are going to be secure in their ability to draw in, and the more players with a modified win or draw from previous rounds, the fewer IDs can happen in the final round.

You are never a bad person for refusing an ID. The math can be complex, you don't have a lot of time to decide, and unless you are really sure that you are for sure in you shouldn't take an ID from an opponent that is currently ranked higher than you.

I read a lot of scenarios where people are trying to decide if an ID is "fair" to players based on what happened in the previous tournament rounds. That is ridiculous. The only thing that matters is the round you are in. While that might seem overly competitive to some, it really relieves a lot of stress trying to decide who "deserves" to be in the cut. This is probably the thing that grinds my gears the most: there is no such thing as deserves to be top 8 but didn't make it in.

IDs are not an example of bad sportsmanship. In Magic, being at the top tables and knowing if you crush your opponent your friend might be able to make it in is called dreamcrushing in the circles I've seen, where an ID is offering a chance for you and your opponent to help each other make it in. It can go both ways, depending on your point of view.

IDs reward players who have done well in the previous part of the tournament. If the game means almost nothing (both players will make it in regardless of the outcome) it gives those players a chance to rest, recharge, and maybe cheer on their friends for the final round.

Mostly when I see this forum debate intentional drawing, I see a lot of people that don't really understand the implications of it. IDs can only happen if you've been playing well all day.

*Edited for some clarity*

Sure, but as a former Pro Tour Magic player, and friend of many other Pro Magic players and commentators, I think IDs are terrible.

I don't intend on dredging the whole thing back up, but as you brought the Magic perspective into it you may like to read this:

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/you-cant-win-but-there-are-alternatives.html

Thanks for the report! A couple quick questions:

1. Do you know how many players were there?
2. Do you know the winning player's name?
3. To confirm, the winning list was at 98 points?

Around 110 players I think.

Second day swiss had 38 players.

Mithosiris is correct : winner was De la Torre.

He did have 2 pt init bid.

Top 8 was:

2 triple scouts

1 Dash + Lothal

1 Crack swarm

1 Dengar + Guri

2 Palp aces (1 whisper + inquisitor, the other soontir + inquisitor)

I think the last one was either a palp aces or triple scouts but I may be mistaken.

I have some pictures and will try to get a report up soon.

Anyone have a good video of Palp Aces taking on Triple Scouts?

I've started dabbling Rebels because I don't like the idea of flying against them, honestly, but I'm having Palp withdrawals...

What was the Dengar Guri list?

Direct link for Live stream from TOP8 cut, Endor System Open, Poland. Enjoy!

https://www.twitch.tv/xwingpl

From the number of threads I've posted in, my evolved take on it is that using a Swiss with at cut to Single Elimination that it is better to have them than not. I would much prefer to see a totally different tournament style for competitive play, one where IDs aren't an option. The personal reason why is I hate suspense, I hate surprise, and I hate being paired against someone more difficult to play in the last round than the guy 3 points behind me, and that guy makes the cut because his opponent was easier.

I'm a proponent of Intentional Draw. I like it in Magic, and I like it here. I think having a judge nearby when asking is legit too, because it literally should only ever be:

The thing is, the majority of players of the game do not want this to be Magic.

I understand that the majority of them don't want this to be Magic. The reality of the situation is that as the game matures competitively, it will grow closer and closer to Magic in the way competition is handled simply because that's the way you have to play to compete at the highest levels. You can't wish a game to stay new and young and expect it to work.

Look, Magic and League of Legends are the two things I can compare to X-Wing, and both have clearly defined metagames at the highest level of play. I played Magic back when people wanted to "break the meta" with some awesome homebrew list. It's doable at the lower level tournaments where fewer top tier players are at and always will, but for large tournaments you'd need insanely hot dice to take a homebrew list to the top of a 50+ person tournament.

Sure, but as a former Pro Tour Magic player, and friend of many other Pro Magic players and commentators, I think IDs are terrible.

I don't intend on dredging the whole thing back up, but as you brought the Magic perspective into it you may like to read this:
http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/you-cant-win-but-there-are-alternatives.html

Thats a good read! Like I said above, the IDs are a function of the tournament style. Magic would have a real hard time moving away from Swiss and a cut, but it isn't too late for X-Wing to do so.

The point is moot anyway, FFG looks like they will be eliminating draws entirely one way or another in August. It's not really a battle I want to fight, FFG has made their decision and it seems fine. The thing I dislike is how some people seem to desperately want to push against the inevitability of solid competitive rules for the sake of "fly casual" or whatever.

What was the Dengar Guri list?

I saw the list in a different thread and it's a doozy... Illicit Cloaking Device!!! Most people have gone Glitterstim in Dengar/Guri builds. But clearly this worked!

"Dengar + Guri : Guri has lone wolf + sensor jammer + scum cloaking device + Autothrusters"

What was the Dengar Guri list?

I saw the list in a different thread and it's a doozy... Illicit Cloaking Device!!! Most people have gone Glitterstim in Dengar/Guri builds. But clearly this worked!

"Dengar + Guri : Guri has lone wolf + sensor jammer + scum cloaking device + Autothrusters"

What about Dengar?