To me, Xianghua* is the most least talked-about character, which is odd because it really seems like she has the most potential. The ability to freely drop foundations without CCs is reminiscent of *Ibuki* or Kasumi Gaki, and her F, if it is as I think it is, is almost better than King's!

So, just some questions, because I'm seriously all mixed-up on Xianghua*...

1. Xianghua's F, to me, was either worded improperly, or it does next to nothing. With the way it's worded, it seems like the only reason to use it is for Combos. It doesn't say "play the attack as normal", nor does it say "the attack is played (no control check necessary). So...is the sole purpose of Xianghua's F to add an attack for Combo purposes?

2. Her R, as has been noted, doesn't mention "sharing resources". So, is this another "implied" effect, or can you seriously just drop any foundation you choose?

3. Has anybody here built her yet? What are your thoughts on a Xianghua build? Does she utilize mostly her speed support and attacks, or a more aggressive line-up, like a Life Throwdown version to fuel her R?

1. Yes, it doesn't play the attack. It's for combos and potential recursion since amusingly enough, there's more card pool recursion than discard recursion in this format.

2. Yes, you can play anything.

3. Dunno if anyone's built her yet.

Huh. I could've sworn her F allowed her to play stuff (there goes my dream of Tiger Claw to face until it hits face-up momentum paydirt...). Well, recurring Combo pieces out of the discard pile is still cool, though (especially that oh-so-tasty Playful Slice ).

She has a lot of attacks that simply do things for being in your card pool (See: Playful Slice) so her form while also a great enabler of combos can be used for other things depending on whats in your discard pile. And like Tag said there is a lot of card pool recursion.

I think shes great but I just really think 7 HSers are too weak in this format to take a chance on them. They can be good and they can win but I just like to not take chances XD

1) Put Playful Slice in the card pool and go to town spamming attacks? At that point, a single Genius Alchemist would be GOD-like.

Or put Playful Slice in the card pool, recur with Loyal at All Costs/(flip face down with Taki support + Ninja Tactics)?

Did I mention Playful Slice? I may have forgotten it. Oh, and Playful Slice.

Sure, Rhythm Halt, Tiao Wu Kick and others do stuff while in the card pool, but Playful Slice is awesome. F to put Playful Slice in the card pool, Rhythm Halt to follow, then Waterfall at 6L4, Combo E?

2) Anything. Yay. Sadly I believe that while this LOOKS like it could get out of hand, it also means that to REALLY abuse it you have to play cards that would otherwise be dead draws because they share no symbols. Her ability works best for dual- and tri-sumboling. But I'd totally build one with For the Money or Financial Troubles just for the hell of it.

3) I wish. I still don't have enough cards to build anyone yet...

A lot of her cards have stuff on them like, the next attack played this turn has it's speed and damaged reversed and stuff like that. Look at those sweet static abilities.

EDIT **** BEATEN

guitalex2008 said:

Yeah, don't I know that feeling.....

Iuno about Playful Slice. To be frank, it's Combo E is best used for NON Xianghua decks seeing as how Xianghua's R pretty much does what Playful Slice's Combo does better. I know it's for the static, but well, it's a 2 check, which isn't necessarily the nail in the coffin, but rather, you really gotta be sure you can fit it. If you're running Air Xianghua, you might be better off with Communing with the Ancients.

OK, so her F and Sword are for Combo, recursion, and static abilities. Pretty nifty, really gets the creativity flowing.

I think I'm more pressed to run a Life version, however, I'm hard-pressed to find much use for her R. Adding foundations directly means they need to definitely do something worthwhile, especially during my turn, because attacking + adding = depleted hand, very quickly.

I'm considering something like Deceptively Quick + Looking for a Thrill + Lost Partner and using a lot of Life Throwdown, but I might just wind up going the Waterfall route and utilize Genius Alchemist to make it easier to play.

Playful Slice + Genius Alchemist + Waterfall = WIN . Only needing a 5 to play that Waterfall sure makes that 2 check sting a lot less...

The problem I'm finding with Xianghua (is looking over ways of building her) is simply that her F (and Sword) say 4 diff as opposed to 5. Almost every attack I want to run in her is 4 diff, severely limiting my options, as I feel the F is pretty much integral to building her.

I'm considering some sort of Rhythm Halt Twisting Lotus Flow build, but I'm not too sure it'd work seeing as how progressive difficulty is a big issue with TLF.

guitalex2008 said:

Honestly, it's more of a problem in da future than anything else.

Homme Chapeau said:

I dont know i just dont see how clogging up your hand with cards that you cant play could be a good thing....what happens when you draw 2 or 3 cards that you cant otherwise play and then your stuck without blocks and useless cards in your hand....lets see how long your 18 life last without any blocks or cards you can play

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

You don't see the problem because at the moment there really isn't any foundation you'd want in Xianghua that isn't in her symbols. It's simply not worth it. However, who knows what the future holds?

Homme Chapeau said:

guitalex2008 said:

Wanting something isnt really the issue though......you can have all those foundations in your deck.....ok now say you draw 5 of those foundations in your opening hand.....and 2 attacks or even an asset and an attack. Then what?

You proceed to have the attack blocked and you play the asset now your behind in the race and you dont have any cards in hand to block with......

theres too much risk involved i think it might be an advantage to have one foundation or maybe 2 if you push it but thats not all that game breaking i dont think and even having those few will hinder her at some point keeping her from being top tier if thats what everyone focuses on

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

When running off symbol foundations in Xianghua, the idea is to only use 1 or 2 different foundations as opposed to a whole mess of them like people sometimes think you should. Abusing her R seems like the way to go with her, but that 18 vitality limits your options in this format. I'm working on air/water for my build. I win with Twisting Lotus Flow. Off air I get access to Communing With the Ancients, off water I get Amy's damage redux support. My attack turns go off water, this allows me to use Amy's attacks in addition to Xianghua's. The only thing I splash off symbol is For the Money, so I can consistently pass my looping combo.

Yes you don't want to over load on different off symbol cards. But also look at Sword of No Name. If you have a good amount of draw you can do what Xiaugha does by dropping foundations without the squishy life. Also if things get desperate you always have Needs no Ally. Since most people don't think about the card it would be an essential card for people playing off symbols. But that limits you playing her off of life.

For the Money is the only foundation worth going completely off the boat about, or MAYBE Unstoppable Warrior if you have a sufficiently aggro build. Financial Troubles and Ultimate Team are cards that generate incremental advantage, not gamebreaking effects like "You can play 4 attacks without committing a foundation" or "Your attacks have their damage nearly doubled".

I see X's response at its best when you use it to enable really efficient dual-symbolling. Using Dragon's Flame as a finisher, backed by Playful Slice, Genius Alchemist, and Communing with the Ancients, should be very powerful. The biggest barrier is the lack of a really good Air-symbol high attack the best I can find is Assassin's Secret, which makes some relatively unimportant momentum and is only 4dmg for 4diff, or maybe Dream Scroll (speed pump is speed pump). You have a variety of good leadoff attacks, though obviously Playful Slice, but Assassin's Strike is also very strong, or Mark of the Beast. But really do you ever want to look at your opponent's board and see any number of Stand Offs accompanied by Torn Hero? AND other good cards, unlike Earth?

guitalex2008 said:

Unstoppable Warrior limits your potential attacks to anything with printed 5 or more. The combo is decent, but seriously - how well will you be able to perform it?

Financial Troubles is pretty much trash IMO. I've yet to see a time where that card was remotely useful other than "F Commit : Your opponent discards a card.". Then again I've yet to see a game go past turn 5.

For the Money I'll give you, but that doesn't make Xianghua broken more than it allows her to play one foundation she normally couldn't.

There's no reason to errata her now, other than to prevent misuse of the character with future cards.

Homme Chapeau said:

If indeed it gets to that point, she will be looked at whenever we get to that point. We can't cross the river until we get to it. Building a bridge just in case maybe we'll need to cross the bridge is fine, but that would make a pretty useless bridge.

...point is, not yet.

Also, Unstoppable Warrior does only work on attacks with 5 or more printed damage, but consider that Playful Slice is one of those. So is Waterfall. And (the ones people care about are marked with an asterisk *):

Off of Air:
Descending Dragon Spear
Execution Technique Third Rite*
Ice Pick
Law's Sommersault Kick*
Menuett Dance*
Shredding Vibrato (yet another reason to run Path/Needs No Ally in Xianghua)

Off of Life:
Asfixiante
Chi Disruptor*
Double Grounder Beta* (Playful Slice into the card pool, Possession Stance...)
Dragon Punch
Fruit Picker*
Knee Thruster
Law's Sommersault Kick*
Menuett Dance* (see DGB above)
Raging Gnome
Shredding Vibrato
Siegfried's Earth Divide* (did someone say "another use for Xianghua's F and Playful Slice"?)
Striking Thunder
Wrath of Heaven*
Yi Shan's Tiger Claw*

Off of Water:
Asfixiante
Chi Disruptor*
Dragon Punch
Fruit Picker*
Knee Thruster
Striking Thunder
Wrath of Heaven*
Yi Shan's Tiger Claw*

They all have 5 or more damage. I'm sure you can pull out a decent attack base out of this mess.

guitalex2008 said:

Keep in mind you now have to make a 5+ check to place your Unstoppable Warrior.

Homme Chapeau said:

Only if the opponent doesn't half block... then it's a 3.

Also consider Playful Slice's Combo E and Sword of No Name making your job easier.

guitalex2008 said:

You're talking about a whole lotta building.

Homme Chapeau said:

I didn't realize she had trouble building... I thought the whole complaint WAS that she could build too fast.

Come on, Sword is a 2 diff asset playable turn 1 with two or three other foundations. Nothing extraordinary. Then she plays Close Throw and goes double LOL.

If it were me, though, I wouldn't do Unstoppable Warrior. I'd want to run a deck with Close Throw/Crossing the Cliff/Camel Clutch, Waterfall and Playful Slice. And simply tri-symbol her.

guitalex2008 said:

My "complaint" isn't that she can build too fast. Sure go ahead build moar I'll just facesmash you. It has more to do with that she can play every foundation in the game if she so needed. All you really need is a combo that's busted as all hell across all symbols, you run that alongside a standard Xianghua deck and there you go.