For my v3 campaign, I'm thinking about setting in the aftermath of my v2 game. My group veered WAY off the path in Ashes of Middenheim, and all but one of them ended up deciding that they would just join the Khorne cultists. That campaign came to an end after that, but I think it would be interesting to continue with the setting and have been trying to think of the ramifications of Khorne cultists taking over the Cult of Ulric.

A side note: My Khorne cultists are capable of being devious and planning ahead. I don't really know how Khorne can have a secret anything the way Khorne followers are often portrayed.

The new leadership of the Cult of Ulric starts distributing a lot of negative rhetoric against Sigmar and the southern states. Things like, Ulric is the true God and was around before Sigmar, the northern peoples are the ones that do all the real fighting and deal with all the hardship when Chaos invades, the southerners just show up in time for a couple fights then claim victory, etc. This escalates over the course of a year or so with Chaos cultists continuing to spread hate and incense the populace. With conditions in the north being so bad from the devastation in the wake of the Storm of Chaos, many people in the northern states are swayed by the arguments accusing the south of hoarding food and supplies and looking down on their northern cousins. A large number of people are dissatisfied with rule from Altdorf, and independence of Middenland, Nordland, and Hochland is declared, calling themselves the Teutogen Empire.

Karl Franz obviously isn't too happy about this. He doesn't want to deal with this militarily for a number of reasons: The Empire is weakened after the Chaos incursion, and civil war will greatly exacerbate that. He has released the army he gathered for the Storm of Chaos, and calling everyone back so soon would be terrible for morale. Also, after the harsh winter and low yield of the previous year, the Empire really needs time to cultivate crops and rebuild the agricultural sector. Envoys he has sent to Middenheim continually run into difficulties and often have to turn back.

Now, army patrols are stretched thin trying to keep the peace along the border with MIddenland in addition to an increased presence after the Storm of Chaos and their normal duties. Some Sigmar devotees are fleeing the northlands, and refugee camps have formed on the southern shore of the Reik. Some chapters of the Knights of Ulric and some priests of Ulric have begun to suspect treachery in their own ranks, and have left their homes and temples to find proof of what is going on.

So, that's what I have so far. I like thinking about large scale plot development stuff rather than the small details, so what I usually do is take published adventures and weave them together in my overarching plot.

I have started coming up with some more details, but I thought I would post this overview and see if I could get some feedback suggestions. It might be a little over the top, but I don't think it's a totally unreasonable sequence of events.

Awesome!

I think it makes sense - Khorne and his followers aren't known for subtlety, but that doesn't mean they aren't strategic. Originally, Khorne was given a strong sence of being a tactitian and obsessed with honor - on the latter part, it makes sense for a Khorne cult to subvert that of another warrior god and literally "call out" everyone they see as enemies; pretty much exactly what you described.

Conceptually, I also think you can define the Chaos Gods (and their followers) as *reactions* to their opposite. Thus; Khorne is fear of "the other" - death and power in other's hands (so kill them). Slaanesh fear of the self and living (embrace distraction and self destruction). Tzeentch is the fear of familiarity and quiet (make it instantly change! Like magic!); Nurgle the opposite; a fear of newness, change, and uncertainty (grasp the familiar and hang on!).

That in mind, your scenario works as well; the cult has found a tactical way to force the Cult of Sigmar to face them openly - as Archaon's master plan was to kill Ulric, perhaps they've decided he's wrong, and that Ulric *is* Khorne. At that point, you're not being sneaky or dishonourable when subverting the Cult of Ulric; you're speaking the truth and using that as a way to bring your hated foes to the field.

Here are some Ideas off the top of my head-

What does Grand Theogonist Volkmar think about all of this? Is he straining against Karl Franz's leash on military action? I would think he would see cult infighting as a personal affront.

What has happened to the Temple of Sigmar in Middenheim?

What's Boris Todbringer's feeling on the matter. He seems a little too pragmatic to be tricked into a religious war, perhaps he is out of the picture.

The Ar-Ulric may or may not have returned to Middenheim after chasing down Archaon at the Brass Keep, if he did return, what, exactly, did he return to.

Is Johann Esmer stirring up trouble in Marienburg, possibly allying his portion of the Cult of Sigmar with the Tuetogen Empire as a bid for legitimacy, or is he supporting the mainstream cult against the Ulrican persecutions? Marienburg is a pretty big player in the aftermath, their help or an embargo on the Empire could tip the scales either way for the Empire's future.

Talabecland. They've always kind of chaffed at being under Reikland rule, and tend to hold Ulric in higher esteem than Sigmar. Perhaps their political leanings have swayed further now that there is a new Ulric centric empire in the north. The Talabecland Elector count never returned from the battle at Middenheim either, leaving a potential power vacuum.

What Would Kislev Do?

Sounds like an excellent campaign idea, and great fun. I hope you have a blast running it, and I'm certain your players will love it, especially since it dovetails into events they themselves set into motion.

You might also want to look at Empire at War, I believe It details a Civil War in the Empire, and is the replacement ending to The Enemy Within. I don't know where you might find Empire at War, but I'll bet someone will pipe in shortly and give us both the answer.

-Thorvid

Thanks for the ideas guys, exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Like I said, I'm still planning things and haven't figured out all the details yet. I'm reading over Sigmar's Heirs on the general character of people in each province. I'm thinking at least one province will take a "neutral" stance, which is actually more of anti-Empire stance, since they were a part of the Empire and are now distancing themselves. Next up is rereading all the pertinent sections in Ashes of Middenheim to refresh my memory.

I was thinking that since the cultists had the #2 spot, they would make a martyr out of Ar-Ulric. With some inside information, a key guard that has been turned to "the cause," and a willingness to throw away the lives of a lot of Beastmen, I figure this could happen. The spin on this will be that it should have been the Southerners' job to chase down the remnants of the Chaos forces, since Middenheim took the brunt of the assault. So if those wussy Reiklanders had been doing a proper job of things, the Ar-Ulric wouldn't have to risk himself making sure it was done properly.

I had the same thoughts about Boris, but I think that the angry mob mentality will have too much momentum by the time he returns from campaigning. So, he's not happy about how things are going and he can't quell it completely, but he is the voice of reason that's curbing the violent tendencies and is the main reason people haven't just started murdering everyone they think is a Sigmar worshiper and started an outright war.

Because of Todbringer's forbearance, I think the Temple of Sigmar in Middenheim is like an embassy in a hostile foreign nation. It's not really open for general business anymore, there is often angry protesters out front, and people enter and leave through a side door, which is under guard. Triple guard, in fact - Sigmar loyalists, Cult of Ulric fanatics, and Todbringer's personal selection of some extremely cool headed fellows.

Unfortunately, I don't have the Kislev book, and I don't know how well it details Empire-Kislev relations. Do Kislevites think of "The Empire" as a single entity, or are they used to dealing with individual territories? Maybe some one with the book can fill in a few details.

My thoughts when I finished reading were: how will this influence Von Carstein's plans in the eastern Empire? He essentially came out of nowhere with a huge army to save the empire... This may have been more for the WFB enthusiists who love to play the Vampire Counts army, but it could lead to some interesting options. Could the Khornites perhaps reach an understanding with Von Carstein? Maybe the Khornites could enlist his aid to increase pressure from that direction long enough to solidify their hold on the north. Or perhaps Von Carstein will throw in with Karl Franz for some reason. Maybe the vampires are looking at creating some political capital by doing favors they can cash in for later. Or maybe Von Carstein will be a complete wild card and play up tensions between the two factions in hopes of coming in to clean up after the two have driven the Empire to civil war. Nights Dark Masters gives some really good ideas pertaining to Sylvanian and Vampire mindsets. Maybe this will be a good time for them to break away from the Empire and perhaps take a little extra territory in the process.

Just throwing out some thoughts that came to mind. I really like the idea though. I think there is a lot of potential there. Hopefully it isn't too much work for you, but even if it is I bet it will be loads of fun. Good luck. And let us know how things go. I would love to see what direction you decide to go, and how you players deal with it.

Interesting proposition to play Ashes of Middenheim and the campain Path of the Damned. It was was but not that good in my opinion. Ashes were good but Altdorf and Nuln were not, especialy Altdorf.

There's too much to think about! I actually had thought of Carstein as well. I haven't read through my WFB Storm of Chaos book again yet, but I got the impression that he didn't like Chaos, and probably wouldn't deal with them. Since military force has failed in conquering the Empire a time or two, I thought he would try something new: Help out, and give Karl Franz enough "deals with the devil" until Sylvania is made a province again, and he can become an Elector Count. Then, he can start exerting influence over the other Elector Counts, gain votes, and take control of the Empire according to its own rules. I mean, he's got time on his side, so why not take the long view? That might be some of my old Vampire playing experience coming through.

Unfortunately, Night's Dark Masters is another one I don't have. I don't imagine I'll be finding a hardcopy too easily, is it (and the Kislev book) available as PDF? Would it be worth it for just the background info? I already have the Middenheim and Altdorf books, so I want to use them. Of course, if it will even be recognizable by the time I'm done, is anybody's guess

NewTroski said:

Unfortunately, Night's Dark Masters is another one I don't have. I don't imagine I'll be finding a hardcopy too easily, is it (and the Kislev book) available as PDF? Would it be worth it for just the background info? I already have the Middenheim and Altdorf books, so I want to use them. Of course, if it will even be recognizable by the time I'm done, is anybody's guess

I don't think there are PDFs; NDM goes for 60+ on ebay right now. What might be viable (and maybe 75% as effective, in terms of background) would be Warhammer Armies: Undead (4th edition WFB, 35 bucks on ebay) and the greenish-covered WA: Vampire Counts (6th edition, 3 bucks on ebay) - the former has the original "modern" incarnation of the Undead background, but predates the bloodlines; the latter has plenty of characterful discussion about the bloodlines (as opposed to the current, 7th edition one with the bright red vampire on the blue background, which moves away from the bloodlines).

NDM has lots of roleplaying elements in it, but at twice list price? I don't think it's that good. If you could get the Liber Necris (the Black Library background book) for a similar cost (40-60 range) that might be worth it.

NDM pdf is something like $18, http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?cPath=4943

Oh, look at that. Still, I wasn't overly impressed with the conent in that one, especially now that GW has gone back toward the WFB 3rd/ WFRP 1st model of vampires that are less regimented between bloodlines.

Might be worthwhile at 18 bucks though.

I honestly don't think that I would buy NDM's at the ebay price either. Maybe the Liber Necris ruined NDM's for me. I felt like most of NDM was a repeat of the information in LN, and with the game mechanics changing in 3rd edition I can't see NDM's really being that useful. You can get the majority of that content from other books and much cheaper. But I would consider Realm of the Ice Queen. I thought that was an excellent book with great maps and all kinds of fluff and background that I hadn't seen anywhere else. (I don't have any of the 1st edition stuff though so it could have been lifted from that.)

My guess is that FFG will start putting out supplements that either copy or redo much of what was in the 2nd edition books anyway. If you could wait that stuff will likely start becoming available in the next year or so. If sales are as good as they appear, I would think FFG will capitalize on the market while people are still excited.

I'm pretty sure you're right; I don't think Realm of the Ice Queen had a lot reprinted.

Liber Necris, on the other hand, is great. It re-presents some of the better bits from the WFB 4th Undead book, and adds in some really evocative ideas about vampires, Dhar, and *why* Nagash succeeded at what he wanted. The implications are all pretty fascinating, and could be great seeds for adventures.

hi

You should check out the Tome of Corruption for more info about the Crimson skull. Here is an extract from chapter IV: Cults of Chaos

Organisation
The Crimson Skulls, despite their current involvment with the Brotherhood of the Axe, are in fact quite widespread, having cells in most major cities and towns. Operating in small grouds of eight, each cell consist of one Cult Acolyte and seven cultists of which at least three are aware of the Cult`s purpose and allegiance. The Acolytes make pilgrimages to Middenheim once a year for the Convocation of Blood where they meet with the Cult Magus, a bloodthirsty killer named Boris Eichermann, a former Priest of Ulric who has a direct bloodline to the chief of the Teutogen tribe during the life of Sigmar. He faked his death five years ago after killing 35 young women with his bare hands.

Your story is interesting albeit too dark for my taste, I would hate for my players to join a chaos cult, unless ofcourse its to infiltrate it, and later destroy it.

also I found one obvious inconsistency with the new edition, (although any skilled GM can fix this easy), and that is the clock is turned back. In third edition the Storm of Chaos has yet to happen. So you will have to work to move the time again to the current time of your campaign.

Beside from that you seems to have a good grip on the history and event of PoftD. Please keep me posted about how it turns out for you.

Oops, I guess I left it a little ambiguous. The characters in the previous game ended up joining the cult, and that game ended. I plan on running a new game with new characters, so the players will be dealing with the repercussions of their previous characters causing this chain of events to take place. I'm not really sure what I would do in a story with the characters as active members of a Chaos cult, it just seems like that would get out of hand pretty fast.

I noticed the date change for the new edition, but I'm trying to parallel the build up to the SoC in some ways with a cold war between Sigmar and Ulric. Probably not starting until January though, so I'll hopefully have time to get everything straightened out (come on Amazon, ship already!).