I really wanted to like Henchmen at first, but I had several issues with them during my 4 Emperor's Decree sessions.

First, and most importantly, is the shared health pool. I don't mind the concept, but I am concerned about the emphasis on "no wasted damage." If all of the henchmen are in the same engagement, then it works. But otherwise... ugh.

For instance, in every single game I ran, I had to make up an explanation of how one arrow or pistol shot went through one beastmen and into another, killing both. Now, the first time that happened for each group, it was really cool and meorable for them. But then it happened twice in the same session--the second event actually brought groans and kind of spoiled the first occurance. And it really annoyed me after seeing it happen five times in just four sessions.So, should the "no wasted damage" apply to ranged attacks? I think not.

I also think that the "no wasted damage" should only apply to henchmen in the same engagement. In one session, I only had 2 beastmen left when the gor was killed. One disengaged and picked up the horn, but did not blow it because he would have taken a wound (since monsters don't take stress, something else that doesn't play as well as intended.) But before its next turn a player did enough damage to kill both remaining henchmen, even though he was only engaged with one. WWYD... kill them both, or only kill the one engaged and 'waste' the rest of the damage?

Since I mentioned stress... let's say a group of three henchmen want to do a second manoeuvre. Do they take 1 stress wound each (total of 3 to their pool) or 1 total as a group? I prefer the latter, but I don't like either as henchmen barely have any health in the first place. Maybe something like: henchmen can perform one manoeuvre for free before performing an action. Any additional manoeuvres before an action impose an additional misfortune die on the action. A henchman can perform a manoeuvre after an action only if it did not perform any manoeuvres prior to its action. Henchmen cannot perform more than one manoeuvre after an action.

Finally, henchmen suffer a double whammy to their wound threshold. Since "no damage is wasted" henchmen really get hosed with their damage reduction because their Toughness and Soak only applies once, even though the damage carries over. Maybe that's the intent, but it seems a little more cinematic that previous incarnations of WFRP.

Here's my suggestions to make henchmen a little better:

1) Damage carries over, but apply damage reduction each time.

2) Damage only carries over to henchmen in the same engagement

3) Damage from ranged attacks does not carry over

4) A group of henchmen acting together only suffers 1 stress wound total per extra manoeuvre (or a misfortune die, as mentioned above.)

Would the designers care to offer any commentary on henchmen?

Thanks!

Steve

Henchmen are supposed to be grouped, in groups the size of the party are smaller. That's what shares the health pools - those groups. Only one attacks, and the others add support dice. They are good for one or two attacks then get plowed under. They act as one, so yeah, only one stress and carry over only works for that group.

I guess if you wanted to split them up, they would each have their own health (equal to their T) and no support (and get plowed under).

As far as the mitigation carrying over, no reason you can't do that if you want, but it will make them tougher (and they already hit pretty hard with the support dice), so keep that in mind when designing encounters.

As NezziR said. You really shouldn't have been using Henchmen rules for the demo, as there just weren't enough of the enemy present. Also note, as NezziR pointed out, that these henchmen "groups" are basically treated as a single individual. So, they "attack" the same target, and move to the same engagement, etc. As NezziR mentioned, a single henchmen group only attacks once, and each additional henchman in the group adds [W] to the groups attack roll. Thus, you won't have a henchman group being involved in 2 different engagements nor attacking 2 different PCs (unless they have an action that allows them to attack a second opponent). So, treat a henchmen group like a single enemy when moving and attacking with them.

Yeah, I respect that a group of henchmen is a single entity. The two problems I had in the demo that got me thinking were 1)multiple henchmen dying from one ranged attack, and 2) when one henchmen broke off from the group to blow the horn.

I agree with dvang that maybe the ungors probably shouldn't have been henchmen in that scenario, or at least the first encounter.

I ran the Ungor and Gor as individuals. This worked great as the Henchmen rules were not mentiond in the Scenario and the Ungor had a Wound threshold on thier entry in the Beastman section of the Bestiary. It ran smooth and worked very well. I can see if the party was facing a large group of Gobbos or Snotlings... Then I would use Henchmen rules.

I ran them all as individuals. The MAJOR disadvantage of this is the same as D&D..Lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng boring-ass combats. I'm definitely doing the Henchmen damage thing in the future.

"No wasted Damage" issue: I'd just say that one guy dude, other splattered with blood and runs and is cut down or something. Yea, you just have to adjudicate the "reality" sometimes.

Jh

Emirikol said:

Really? I ran both of the combats in under 1.5 hours at each session...

45 minutes per combat with only 3 players (or did you add the 4th?) does seem long though I guess it may be because the players didn't fully understand the rules yet.

I thought that without all the grid counting combat would be faster than that, hopefully it will be with system familiarity.

Combat length is my biggest concern with DND 4E each combat take at least 45 mins to an hour. Compared to Dragon Warriors in which combat took around 10 - 15 minutes.

I am hopping WHFRP 3e is somewhere in between the two.

What have others found in terms of the length of time combat takes?

We know healing is slow, and there is a chance to aggrevate injuries by attempting healing. We also know that starvation (less than 3b/day on subsistence) causes issues.

Therefore, why should we assume every band of goblins goes into encounters with PCs fully healed, rested, and fully fed?

We don't - that's what I use Henchmen for. Or use the above to 'justify' the Henchman rules.

When Ungors are individual fighers they are well fed, rested, and healed. When they are Henchmen they have been fighting with each other, getting bashed by a Gor, struggling for food, cold and hungry, exhausted from a long march, have infected wounds from a farmer's pitchfork, etc.