I'm going to be as forthcoming about this as possible. We need negation back. Playing games that's only last till turn 2-3 is just no fun. I've been playing Brian Fury lately, which is good, but I've noticed that any deck that can run stand off (and right now, and deck that can, will) shuts this deck down completely. My friend just finished a really good Zi Mei deck that once again, ONLY RUNS FOUR ATTACKS, guess which attack. I've played against King, grandpa ninja, astrid, kazuya, hata, etc. all of these decks are stapled "Top Tier" only because there is nothing against them with the exception of Rashotep. And he can't even handle it all on his own.

Bring back negeation can be very easy without making it annoying like in blocks 2 and 3. Making action cards that are rares and that have a good symbol spread (meaning, give the cards symbols that actually need something to be playable) is a very simple answer to a problem that is persisting in the format right now.

I know most of you, ecspecially those of you that were extremely excited about the early rotation, will think that I'm just trying to bring back something that caused the early rotation to begin with. In actuality, I'm trying to fix what was wrong with it in the first place. Making negation action cards with bring some control to the game without people sitting behind a "WALL OF NO" in the staging area.

And please, I do want to know what you think about this, but I really don't want to be bombed by people just trying to start fights. Critizism is fine, badmouthing........not so much. Thank you for your time, and I'm sorry if some of this makes no sense, when I start typing, I think faster than I type.

There is plenty of control and more is coming. I think thats more than enough. I think if they start adding Cancel F and Cancel E and Cancel R, if the share a single symbol or even if they print a character than can play them all, there will be problems. I think the Hyper Aggro right now is kinda fun, but I also think there is some amount of countering that can happen. A lot of surviving today's aggro is conserving blocks, because right now, kill conditions are pretty obvious. You can count on seeing Spinning demons and turn thrusters and Knight Breakers in certain decks, so you hold blocks for attacks you expect to break your face. You need to the cancel crutch and learn to play NEWFS, or play Legacy. I dont wanna see grey wars come back and wide spread cancels will usher it back in.

If we see any cancels, they will be very highly costed or very situational, and thats the way it should be.

Cancels are self destructive foundations as it should be. Lets keep that up. The wall of no is here but can crumble fast. Try playing a deck based on control and you will see what I mean.

Uhm...no, i'm very glad negation as we once knew it is gone.

R.I.P., for realz.

NewFS Control is perfectly balanced, and even replicates the feel of an actual arcade fighter. Feel free to disagree and argue that we are not playing an arcade game but, rather, a card game all you like. This card game is based on the popular arcade fighters and - finally - "feels" like games it's based upon.

Control is present, but it's a lot more specific and themed, as it should be, and stlll allows BOTH players to actually play, which is the point of a multi-player game.

NoobFighterFTW said:

I ran into the same problem. A Fire Zi Mei with only four attacks and Stand Off, also Shadowar. For all I know, the deck also has The Ultimate Teams. I don't know/care.

I did sort of well with a rough Nina build, but when every attack in my deck was made into donuts unless I decided to disrupt the rest of my turn, it sort of ceases to be fun. Especially when you then basically end up building a deck JUST to beat the one deck. That shouldn't happen.

Again, the one problem I have with the deck is that it can work by running only 4 attacks. Fury of the Ancients is a problem, but not as big as Stand Off.

Taki, for one, will help with handling Stand Off.

I'd like to see more negation in the vein of Charisma - a Unique self-destructive negate that has a relatively usable split action side.

In fact, Unique foundations seem AWESOME to reintroduce split cards to the format.

1. IMO, Controller of Souls is too much. Most assets are unique, meaning you only need 1-2 copies of Controller to completely negate your opponent's Green Area.

2. The problem with negation in the past was that it was always universal. Inhuman negated ANY Response. No Mems/Pieces negated ANY E. Oral Dead negated MOST Forms. Seal was flat-out broken, and Red Lotus covered WAAAAY too many grounds (negating Amy's when there were no Assets in play? stfu)

So, if there is ever to be THAT form of negation again, it needs to be much more tamed, well-costed, and what's more, more situational. Limit it to "only during your attack", etc.

Frankly, I enjoy seeing control based around blanking and flipping upside-down, because even though you've destroyed their TOTAL effect, they still keep the card in play, so they don't get totally disadvantaged.

Tagrineth said:

Charismatic.

Because the 3/6 foundation did nothing of the sort.

Is this a "we need more control" thread or a "whine about standoff" thread?

I could see more control being in, but it needs to be balanced, destroy/high cost, etc. And their should be anti control cards, which currently their are some to deal with the control. It should be so that a deck packed with anti control cards can easily defeat a control deck, but an aggro deck smashes its face. Rock-paper-scissors

As far as stand-off, its one card, can be negated with the same cost as it takes to play it, and its not that big a deal...

Guys, we DO have control... maybe not as much as we used to, but trust me, we do have control.

Homme Chapeau said:

Although Fire has a lot more control than it **** well should as well.

guitalex2008 said:

There is definately weak form control in the meta, that said there is enough stun and other techs that can break most early control and enough damage pump for late game that leaves the overall meta quite agressive.

In any case, my hand is up as - add more control as planned. It is only natural that what people call control will get a boost as Order, a symbol that is all about balancing situations, gets developed.

I don't think what most people were angry with near end of block 3 was 'control' per se, it was 'defense' more than anything. Generic negation, big damage redux, mass targeted commital, (and all easy to acquire) leant itself to what we consider control, but what it really means is the availability of defense to the point where 'turtling' is possible. (most fighting fans don't like or respect turtling).

- dut

dutpotd said:

And most turtles then complain when you "throw" them, lol. Um, if you turtle, take no chances, and play the runaway game, you WILL get thrown.

The meta reflects that now, if you try to just spam foundations, build, and turtle, you eat a high dmg low speed throw.

I don't miss (nor do i think anyone else) things like criminal past / stupid life gain card i can't remember.

Im more of a fighting game than a card player at heart, so i felt like jumping in

NoobFighterFTW said:

Rarity doesn't help/solve anything. In point of fact, it is more likely to make problems worse.

Control should be commons, self destructive, and costed properly.

That's pretty much what they are now. I see no issue with them.

I also think that the amount of control we have now and coming is quite enough. The game has gone quite near balanced now, so reintroducing too much control could upset that. I'll vote like dut - let control evolve as planned.

The high level of control was what drove my one playgroup into near extinction. It's only now starting to grow back. I really REALLY do not want to see that control become that heavy again. So no...I think the level of control is fine just where it is.

I'd like to see a little bit of more general negation reintroduced, but it has to be in action card form.

Tagrineth said:

More stuff like devil within would be cool I think.

I really like Demon Slayer. I think it's exactly what control in this game should be. An ATTACK with a one-time negation, whether played as an attack or a block (more than one-time with some of Nina's support).

But I disagree completely with the original poster. Turn 2-3 games are what happens when one you plays a 7-HS character, or when you don't save blocks. Turn 3-5 games happen when you play with beefier characters and don't overextend too early. I really enjoy where the game is right now, and I think more generalized control is exactly what the game does NOT need. If you want control, play OLDFS or Magic. If you want to fight, play NEWFS.