Hello there

In germany the brood war expansion now is out in translated version and i guess most of the rules und game stuff is same as in original english brood war expansion. So after six games we can say definitely one thing about the six new planets with their air-only areas and included conquest points: The protoss HAS NO CHANCE against terran and zerg armies in this areas quipped with queens and research vessels. The protoss only has the arbiter with weak defense technologies which can`t challenge the techs for the air assisst units queen and research ship. Not enough, the terran and zerg player with their strong air assists has also got good chances to do air splash damage while protoss can`t do. As there are a lot of new conquest point areas which only can be controlled in the air, the protoss are very bad choice for playing. To this i have to say that we got the "luck" of drawing at least 2 of the new planets and erebus was nearly four times in play (most sucking planet at all).

tired of this unbalanced crap we decide to play the new planets in another dramatical changed way: The new areas are used as "normal" areas like all the areas on the planets of the base game with one exception: The air-only areas give the air units +1 attack and +1 health to thair base combat card values, while on only ground areas ground units gain the same bonus. This was the only way to give the protoss their assist units templar and dark archon back. Cause in this way the protoss has now again even the chance to make air splash damage and get this really annoying research ships killed.

Now after this experience and changes i would like to know if there are more players who think the same way and if this changes could be sensefull or do you have another rule changes to get the old starcraft feeling back.

Well, Arbiters are weak Assist units only in stations, due to Cloaking mechanism, which allow only to withdraw. There are mostly only 1 area available for air units, so that it cannot be done. Instead changing completely types of areas, just allow to retreat Cloaked Protoss units in such situations.

While vs air units Protoss fleet neets support of e.g. High Templars or Arbiters, vs ground units it's still very good.

The protoss are actually very good at keeping control of air only spaces because fo the arbiter. The trick is to get to the space first. Their low tier flyers are also significantly better than the lot tier flier of the other races so they have an advantage before devoureres/battlecruisers come out.

Just so. You can really keep air superiority.

True, Stasis Cell can stop any air-only attacks. Unless you are attacked by Terran with Science Vessel + EMP.

Yes, Arbiter can do stasis cell on enemy but only when you defend, and thats the point. In your words, the only way to get an advance of these territories as protoss, is building starport level 2 as fast as possible and research stasis cell in the first rounds. I think that could work, but like cyb3k already said: the emp shockwave is an awesome technology for the race with - now - very good air domination possibilities. Its just unfair or in other words: unbalanced! I think the arbiter technology cards had to get a revision with brood war, as you are able to make perfect use of stasis cell while attacking in the pc game. You also mustn`t forget that stasis cell always only works in only one skirmish!

The idea to retreat instead of withdrawing is not bad, i`ve always thought about a general use of this rule for all cloaking units, as there are a lot of ways to get detector into battle. Cloaking is quite weak technology, especially now in the expansion where air only areas often stands alone.

I don`t know why it was that problem to introduce CP areas on ground only areas *sigh*

what about corsir ?

what should be with them? they got the same possibilities as all other protoss air units, exactly kill one unit and their values... okay, they are cheap that`s right and the way the protoss spend less ressources to conquer such an area only with corsairs. but in some cases they would not even be able to destroy a valkyrie - as long as they attack alone. But its a good new idea - i`ll give it a try.

The protoss don't have air splash for balance reasons. They have the best ground army in the game so they are given a weaker airforce. If you feel this gives them a disadvantage with the new air only points you are right but they more than make up for it with other strengths.

Starcraft is all about the balance of three races with different powers.

My arguement about the midgame strenth of the protoss in the air still stands. A scout is going to hold an air only point over a wraith or mutalisk most of the time. Late game they will have problems but if you get in there early with scouts/corsairs and then hold it with arbiters you are in good shape.

Also if you are really hard up for splash effects tassadar at least has garinthors sacrifice.

1st level corsir

2nd level reaver

and enemy will be crush

of course protoss was nerf a lot (reaver need higher tech / archon cost more / archon support less)

but i think protoss is still balance

with the expansion came six new CP aironly areas. and one valkyrie with research vessel, perhaps even without it, will take out two attacking protoss air units. this is not balanced in my opinion and it doesn`t matter if you are attacking or defending with this protoss units. the erebus station was taken by terran two times in our games and in the last there stood battlecruiser, 2 x valkyrie and one research vessel. now tell me how to conquer this very important CP area with protoss forces. it`s just not possible with one attack, its hardly possible with two attacks. that`s not okay in my opinion

i don't know

in our group we start very close to other and keep attacking so player has no time to bulid air

almost everyone in our group rush or be rush

rarely battle cruiser in our game

Lokeus said:

Well, that's a "bunkered" area, you can't conquer it with single attack unless enemy has really bad cards. Even if you used other race, you would lose much units, but for Protoss it's especially harmfull (all units are relatively expensive).

You`re right cyb3k but as terran i got emp too and as attacker my annulating triggers first! also i got as powerful and cheap units as my opponent and he will lose nearly all units in the area. also the zerg has very nice techs with queens to support their devourers and mutas which will certainly die too, but they deal damage the hell! and the protoss do not! and further: we played thorugh some situations with protoss as first conqueror of this area: it doesn`t matter, as the terrans will sometime get them. research vessel for terran is a must have so the possibiliy that my opponent hast emp is very very high, so that not even an arbiter with stasis would help me. the try as protoss to get such an area is just insane and not worth it. so the fact, that protoss only can get an advance in such a situation is to chooose individual winning conditions, what is quite bad, as you choose your leadership cards before building the galaxy.

Well, EMP is very, very good against all Protoss units, not only air units. While Zerg can destroy Science Vessels easily with Air Splash Damage (Devourers), Protoss, sadly, can't even use Dark Archons well vs SV (EMP always cancel Feedback first). On the other hand, Zerg can do nothing vs Stasis Cell... (in air-only areas).

and again you are requiring that protoss has the location already taken when you speak about zerg which supposedly can`t do something against stasis. the way to stasis is long and you still will have casualties as stasis works only for one skirmish. are you going to attack zerg contained air only area with protoss your chances indeed will getting better, espacially cause the zerg must have got an expensive devourer to do some splash. The chance to kill the devourer for protoss is not too bad, but the protoss will be much more static in the air as the queen could negate the support combat values or even neutralize the advance of arbiter cloaking field with parasit easily. we can talk about that for years, but the protoss won`t get stronger by that and they won`t get cheaper air ships too, so the only thing you can do is: spending tons of ressources into corsairs, scouts, carriers and arbiters (at least as cannon fodder for the splash damage while attacking), only playing special attack orders and the most important thing: pray that the opponent does not having best cards for his defending units.

cyb3k said:

can you explain this ?

always ?

From the broodwar FAQ:

Q: What happens if the Protoss “Feedback” ability is
canceled by another Combat card (for example by the
Terran “EMP shockwave”)?

A: The “Feedback” card is canceled without its ability being
resolved.

blarknob said:

thx

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/461380

can you answer those question ?

thx

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/2021308/what-house-rules-do-you-use

Here are some of my variant rules for StarCraft Brood War the Board Game. Have a look, not all of it is shown, but I feel it fixes a lot of the balance issues with the game, especially with redundant Units. Do comment on them if you can! I will try to upload all of it in the future, once I repair my laptop.