Hi ffg community!

A number of Questions regarding terrain cards:

1) if a unique space is terrained over, but a copy of that space appears somewhere else, does the second location then take on all the responsibilities of the first? For example, if the crags become a plains, but then another crags card appears somewhere else on the board, when you get defeated by the eagle king what happens to you? Do you get placed on the new crags? Or do you just not teleport because the old one is gone? What if the new one is in another region like the woodlands? What if there are two or more crags on the board, do you choose?

2) if the hermit is to be teleported to a space that no longer exists, is he discarded or does he stay where he was drawn? Same with the ghost.

3) if you use the hearthstone, but you have a situation like in question 1 where say you are the knight and the original chapel is now a woods but the oasis is now a chapel, where do you teleport?

4) if a shop space in the city expansion is terraformed, is the corresponding deck of cards no longer in the game? Like if you draw a card that lets you "take a card from any shop deck" do you no longer have access to the cards from that shop?

5) what happens to spaces that are crucial to alternative endings? Like if you are playing with the wanderlust ending, but the erie, treasure room, and meet with destiny spaces have been terraformed; or the other alternative ending from the woodlands deck that requires you to reach the meet with destiny space to fight titania/oberon?

Thank you all very much for all the great discussions and help!

From the Expansion Rules for the Firelands expansion:

While a Terrain Card is on a space, the text and name of that space is ignored and the text and name of the Terrain Card is used instead.

So, here are some answers:

1) You would go to the new Crags, not the old Crags. The old Crags doesn't exist anymore. If there are two or more Crags, you choose which one you teleport to, similarly to how you choose which Runes or Rune Gate you teleport to if you use a Rune Gate.

2) This would be up to whomever is hosting the game. Either of those options would be acceptable, though I would be more inclined to discard him. But even beyond that, I would be even more inclined to either reroll for where he appears or to have the roller choose which available space he goes to if he cannot go to where the die roll instructs him to go.

3) Tough luck. You don't get to teleport.

4) The deck is still in play, even though there is no place to purchase the cards. So yes, you may still choose from that deck.

5) Once again, this is up to whomever is hosting the game. Some options would be to: a) ignore the alternate ending and use the standard ending; b) draw a new alternate ending; 3) treat the CoC as though it wound up being an empty promise, meaning the character who reached it must now exit the inner region in order to go slaughter all of the other players.

Osbo 25, thank you very much for your answers!

So, so far we have been houseruling it this way:

On 1 and 2, we agree with your opinion (for the hermit we have just rerolled until a space that exists came up). For#3, following the same theme, if a person's starting space now has duplicates or a new location we have allowed the player to teleport to the new region or choose (this was a topic of much discussion as it completely changed the outcome of one game. In the example I listed, we ended up allowing the knight to teleport to the new chapel allowing him to heal up to full life and survive long enough for the person on the crown of command, aka me, to inadverdently kill myself; **** that bastard knight!).

For #4 we chose to eliminate the shop decks unless the terrain card was somehow removed, but looking closely at the rules i can see why you chose to say the cards can still be used for other purposes. I think we will change to your suggestion from now on.

#5 for this one we had chosen to make those spaces unterraformable if they are crucial to an ALREADY REVEALED ending, with the understanding that if a hidden ending were revealed and is dependant on a space that was already terraformed, we just discarded it and drew a new ending. 3 hours into a game with wanderlust that was gonna be messed up by terraforming we made this decision to not mess with the ending and drag the game out more.

In conclusion, i wish ffg would release an updated faq on all the new expansions as their last one was really helpful, and there are many new questions now.

I'm curious to see what solutions others have come up with top these problems.

I think they gave up on FAQ. there's just too much content.

Answers regarding terrain cards:
Q1) if a unique space is terrained over, but a copy of that space appears somewhere else, does the second location then take on all the responsibilities of the first? For example, if the crags become a plains, but then another crags card appears somewhere else on the board, when you get defeated by the eagle king what happens to you? Do you get placed on the new crags? Or do you just not teleport because the old one is gone? What if the new one is in another region like the woodlands? What if there are two or more crags on the board, do you choose?

A1) When there are two of the same Terrain type the player can choose which one they teleport travel too.

Q2) if the hermit is to be teleported to a space that no longer exists, is he discarded or does he stay where he was drawn? Same with the ghost.

A2) Discarded, always discarded (effect Ignored The Firelands rules p2).

Q3) if you use the hearthstone, but you have a situation like in question 1 where say you are the knight and the original chapel is now a woods but the oasis is now a chapel, where do you teleport?

A3) the Chapel terrain card (was Oasis).

Q4) if a shop space in the city expansion is terraformed, is the corresponding deck of cards no longer in the game? Like if you draw a card that lets you "take a card from any shop deck" do you no longer have access to the cards from that shop?

A4) Deck still in game can be drawn from by other effects.

Q5) what happens to spaces that are crucial to alternative endings? Like if you are playing with the wanderlust ending, but the erie, treasure room, and meet with destiny spaces have been terraformed; or the other alternative ending from the woodlands deck that requires you to reach the meet with destiny space to fight titania/oberon?

A5)Its tough unless a player either removes the said terrain card with a effect that removes terrain cards or a player has to place a new terrain card of the type that is on the erie, treasure room, and meet with destiny from the terrain deck when there is none left of that type in the terrain deck. Thus the player can take the Terrain card type on the erie, treasure room, and meet with destiny space instead and move it to the targeted space, Sorry that does not explain it well read Page 2 of the Firelands rules under Terrain cards. Note the Town square in the city can never have a Terrain card placed on it.

From rules:

...Adventure Cards with instructions that result in their being placed in a space other than the one where they were drawn are dealt with first, before any other Adventure Cards are resolved. If placed elsewhere, an Adventure Card does not affect the character who drew it at that time.

So hermit and Ghost would be discarded.

From rules:

...Adventure Cards with instructions that result in their being placed in a space other than the one where they were drawn are dealt with first, before any other Adventure Cards are resolved. If placed elsewhere, an Adventure Card does not affect the character who drew it at that time.

So hermit and Ghost would be discarded.

I'm reading that over and over, but I can't see what you are saying. Where does it say you should discard the cards??

From rules:

...Adventure Cards with instructions that result in their being placed in a space other than the one where they were drawn are dealt with first, before any other Adventure Cards are resolved. If placed elsewhere, an Adventure Card does not affect the character who drew it at that time.

So hermit and Ghost would be discarded.

I'm reading that over and over, but I can't see what you are saying. Where does it say you should discard the cards??

There is nowhere on the board you can put the card. What else can you do with it?

There is nowhere on the board you can put the card. What else can you do with it?

Well, you could just leave it where it is (was drawn), for example.

Answers regarding terrain cards:

Q1) if a unique space is terrained over, but a copy of that space appears somewhere else, does the second location then take on all the responsibilities of the first? For example, if the crags become a plains, but then another crags card appears somewhere else on the board, when you get defeated by the eagle king what happens to you? Do you get placed on the new crags? Or do you just not teleport because the old one is gone? What if the new one is in another region like the woodlands? What if there are two or more crags on the board, do you choose?

A1) When there are two of the same Terrain type the player can choose which one they teleport travel too.

Q2) if the hermit is to be teleported to a space that no longer exists, is he discarded or does he stay where he was drawn? Same with the ghost.

A2) Discarded, always discarded (effect Ignored The Firelands rules p2).

Q3) if you use the hearthstone, but you have a situation like in question 1 where say you are the knight and the original chapel is now a woods but the oasis is now a chapel, where do you teleport?

A3) the Chapel terrain card (was Oasis).

Q4) if a shop space in the city expansion is terraformed, is the corresponding deck of cards no longer in the game? Like if you draw a card that lets you "take a card from any shop deck" do you no longer have access to the cards from that shop?

A4) Deck still in game can be drawn from by other effects.

Q5) what happens to spaces that are crucial to alternative endings? Like if you are playing with the wanderlust ending, but the erie, treasure room, and meet with destiny spaces have been terraformed; or the other alternative ending from the woodlands deck that requires you to reach the meet with destiny space to fight titania/oberon?

A5)Its tough unless a player either removes the said terrain card with a effect that removes terrain cards or a player has to place a new terrain card of the type that is on the erie, treasure room, and meet with destiny from the terrain deck when there is none left of that type in the terrain deck. Thus the player can take the Terrain card type on the erie, treasure room, and meet with destiny space instead and move it to the targeted space, Sorry that does not explain it well read Page 2 of the Firelands rules under Terrain cards. Note the Town square in the city can never have a Terrain card placed on it.

Thanks for all the answers. I agree with your analyses; and regarding the hermit, I think you are right. Looking at the rules, I can't justify rerolling or leaving the hermit on the space it was drawn, so discard seems like the best option.

So out of curiosity, what do you guys do for question #5 when you play? like if you were playing hidden variant, meet with destiny was terraformed over, and then you found out the ending was war of seasons, would you just discard and redraw another alternative ending? or would you continue playing and either try and recover the meet with destiny (through the means you mentioned) or duke it out to the death?

Thanks again everyone! I love this community

There is nowhere on the board you can put the card. What else can you do with it?

Well, you could just leave it where it is (was drawn), for example.

The rulebook specifically says it doesn't appear on the space it was drawn at.

The utmost correct by the book way of playing it is to continue playing until random chance or something else removed the terrain card. But that would be terrible. Also keep in mind that two of these end spaces would Need to be terraformed to make the ending unfinishable as wanderlust only requires 3 finished expansions. In this case, Best to just house rule it that if one of those spaces is terraformed simply passing through it counts, as the idea of wanderlust is completing through the expansions, for example you don't have to defeat the Lord of darkness just complete the encounter.

From rules:

...Adventure Cards with instructions that result in their being placed in a space other than the one where they were drawn are dealt with first, before any other Adventure Cards are resolved. If placed elsewhere, an Adventure Card does not affect the character who drew it at that time.

So hermit and Ghost would be discarded.

I'm reading that over and over, but I can't see what you are saying. Where does it say you should discard the cards??

"If an effect refers to a space that is no longer on the board because that space contains a Terrain Card, that effect is ignored".- Firelands page2.. Oh I see what you saying the effect is ignored so the Hermit, Ghost will stay where it is.. The card is not discarded just the effect is ignored.. Nice find . Yep thats right indeed, my bad.

The utmost correct by the book way of playing it is to continue playing until random chance or something else removed the terrain card. But that would be terrible. Also keep in mind that two of these end spaces would Need to be terraformed to make the ending unfinishable as wanderlust only requires 3 finished expansions. In this case, Best to just house rule it that if one of those spaces is terraformed simply passing through it counts, as the idea of wanderlust is completing through the expansions, for example you don't have to defeat the Lord of darkness just complete the encounter.

Its the way its meant to be played "terrible or not" Its all in the rules. Yes a house rule fix might be in order if its to difficult to play.

"If an effect refers to a space that is no longer on the board because that space contains a Terrain Card, that effect is ignored".- Firelands page2.. Oh I see what you saying the effect is ignored so the Hermit, Ghost will stay where it is.. The card is not discarded just the effect is ignored.. Nice find . Yep thats right indeed, my bad.

The effect to place the ghost anywhere on the board is ignored. Therefore the ghost doesn't appear anywhere on the board. Simple.

You're saying that it will stay where it is. But where's that? Core rulebook:

When drawn, Adventure Cards are taken from the top of the Adventure deck and placed, faceup, in the space where they are encountered.

One exception to the rule about resolving Adventure Cards in encounter number order is that Adventure Cards with instructions that result in their being placed in a space other than the one where they were drawn are dealt with first, before any other Adventure Cards are resolved. If placed elsewhere, an Adventure Card does not affect the character who drew it at that time.

Ghost and hermit are exceptions . They are not placed on the space like other cards. They are drawn and placed straight where their text says they should. And it should be done even before resolving events, which I had no idea about

"If an effect refers to a space that is no longer on the board because that space contains a Terrain Card, that effect is ignored".- Firelands page2.. Oh I see what you saying the effect is ignored so the Hermit, Ghost will stay where it is.. The card is not discarded just the effect is ignored.. Nice find . Yep thats right indeed, my bad.

The effect to place the ghost anywhere on the board is ignored. Therefore the ghost doesn't appear anywhere on the board. Simple.

You're saying that it will stay where it is. But where's that? Core rulebook:

When drawn, Adventure Cards are taken from the top of the Adventure deck and placed, faceup, in the space where they are encountered.

One exception to the rule about resolving Adventure Cards in encounter number order is that Adventure Cards with instructions that result in their being placed in a space other than the one where they were drawn are dealt with first, before any other Adventure Cards are resolved. If placed elsewhere, an Adventure Card does not affect the character who drew it at that time.

Ghost and hermit are exceptions . They are not placed on the space like other cards. They are drawn and placed straight where their text says they should. And it should be done even before resolving events, which I had no idea about

Yep, that's right its a "exception" to the normal "encounter number encounter" timing rules but the "effect": "Roll 1 die and place the Hermit on the indicated space" is still ignored because the space rolled is not around anymore. Thus nothing happens and the Hermit stays at the space.

Its because the effect is ignored that the key to the issue so the Hermit and Ghost will become normal adventure cards encountered in encounter number order note it says "if" placed elsewhere as well so it "might not happen" thus if it doesn't its treated like a normal adventure card (encounter number order).

Now the Ghost is a little different. Because it cant "materialize" on the transformed space the effect is ignore. Then you take its second effect "It now haunts this area and will remain until it is killed. Thus it stays where it is and you encounter it like a normal adventure spirit card.

Now back to the Hermit its second effect is "He will give the first character to visit him there a Talisman, if available, and then vanish to the discard pile" now given there is no "there" anymore this effect can not trigger thus he just stays where he is. He does not even get discarded because the "and then vanish to the discard pile" is a follow on effect given there is no "." thus he becomes a no-card in effect.

Now if somehow he was not encountered. Does the exception to the normal "encounter number encounter" timing rules count as encountering the card? Hmmm thats interesting and unless there is some hidden rule text I would so no, being a "exception" to the rule and such cards can be encountered after its fair to say that this is not encountering the card. Even if somehow the Hermit does not get encountered after the movement rule effect is ignored I would say it does not trigger again given its a one off "when drawn" before normal encounters effect thus once ignored its gone.

Now one could say that the "If placed elsewhere, an Adventure Card does not affect the character who drew it at that time" can be read to mean the character does and is effected by the Hermits second "He will give the first character to visit him there a Talisman, if available, and then vanish to the discard pile" but in my mind because it says there it a direct key to the space rolled on his chart thus if its been transformed well like I said before it does not trigger. Its basically refers to the Ghost card and making sure that the cards normal move to another space does not allow the drawer to encounter them even on the draw space "IF" it moves.

Edit, No after thinking about it for a bit the ignore affect should ignore the Hermits first effect totally so if its read like the card just said "He will give the first character to visit him there a Talisman, if available, and then vanish to the discard pile" then its perfectly acceptable that yes it stays there and yes you get a Talisman if encountered and yes it then gets discarded. Sorry for the edit but I would rather explain the thinking than just say Yes, No .

I did not remember that. Thanks, Uvatha.

Guess that's because we have played 3 games with terrain cards so far and only one of these games saw quite a few of them.

I have to agree with you here, if you ignore the spawn effect, the remaining effect of the card should still take place. (The card stays on the space where it was drawn.)

IMO,Regarding the Hermit; if you ignored the effect of the card because the space was no longer available for the Hermit to teleport and the space is not one of the 6 mentioned upon drawing him, the next player to encounter the hermit would need to roll a d6 as well to see where he goes. The text is vague at best but it states "He will give the first character to visit him there a Talisman, if available, and then vanish to the discard pile." I think the key word here is there. There would indicate one of the 6 spaces mentioned in his card.

Same with the Ghost, it would only materialize in one of the 6 mentioned spaces.

Just my thoughts.

The utmost correct by the book way of playing it is to continue playing until random chance or something else removed the terrain card. But that would be terrible. Also keep in mind that two of these end spaces would Need to be terraformed to make the ending unfinishable as wanderlust only requires 3 finished expansions. In this case, Best to just house rule it that if one of those spaces is terraformed simply passing through it counts, as the idea of wanderlust is completing through the expansions, for example you don't have to defeat the Lord of darkness just complete the encounter.

Its the way its meant to be played "terrible or not" Its all in the rules. Yes a house rule fix might be in order if its to difficult to play.

I completely disagree that "this is the way it is meant to be played." No way in hell anyone at FFG considered past present or future that while playing the wanderlust alternate ending that two or more of the region endings might be terraformed and thus make the game awful. They don't even care to update the faq. Ever. We here put way more thought into this game than anyone at FFG.

I like the idea of terrain cards and ff seems to be expanding on them for cataclysm but man do they bring up a lot of problems. They really didn't think through all the problems that crop up with these cards. They really needed more expansive rules on them instead of one paragraph in an insert sheet.

The utmost correct by the book way of playing it is to continue playing until random chance or something else removed the terrain card. But that would be terrible. Also keep in mind that two of these end spaces would Need to be terraformed to make the ending unfinishable as wanderlust only requires 3 finished expansions. In this case, Best to just house rule it that if one of those spaces is terraformed simply passing through it counts, as the idea of wanderlust is completing through the expansions, for example you don't have to defeat the Lord of darkness just complete the encounter.

Its the way its meant to be played "terrible or not" Its all in the rules. Yes a house rule fix might be in order if its to difficult to play.

I completely disagree that "this is the way it is meant to be played." No way in hell anyone at FFG considered past present or future that while playing the wanderlust alternate ending that two or more of the region endings might be terraformed and thus make the game awful. They don't even care to update the faq. Ever. We here put way more thought into this game than anyone at FFG.

Never the less "this is the way it is meant to be played" be that by design (what i think) or just bad design. There has been a few silly rules and strange cards no one i know ever plays with the lightbearers for example or the full dragons expansion (unless house ruled) if wanderlust is "that bad" remove it from the deck. Personally i really do not find issue with it, it will be a seriously long game though but talisman can be long anyway.

I'm in the prossess of revising my Forever Talisman rules for Cataclysms release im going to put in more removing ending options so players can before ending draw remove any ending they want before play. Also in the rules are other balancing rules like shop closing in the city.

Also i dont think FFG "don't even care to update thr faq" i think its more like they dont want to complicate the game or upset some of their clients, well alot if they will make rulelings that go against what some players have been saying is right for a long while. But in the meantime they are upsetting their clients with inaction with a new faq.

I didn't say wanderlust is bad at all, it's probably my favorite ending. If it becomes, as you say it is meant to be, a fact that you cannot win because you cannot complete the conditions of the ending because of terraforming, that is horrible. Like when I was the ninja on DE without the dungeon and got the quest to discard a follower. But much worse than that.

I didn't say wanderlust is bad at all, it's probably my favorite ending. If it becomes, as you say it is meant to be, a fact that you cannot win because you cannot complete the conditions of the ending because of terraforming, that is horrible. Like when I was the ninja on DE without the dungeon and got the quest to discard a follower. But much worse than that.

Its not that bad you can still win you just have to remove or move the terrian card it stuffs up the other players just as much as you. And from your tone i just thought you didnt like wanderlust ok my bad there.

Don't get me started on most of the DE characters with exception of a couple they are very badly designed characters that i had to redo just to make it more balanced for gameplay and other effect interaction. Like the ninja and warlock quests.

Maybe there's a space or denizen on the cataclysm board that allows you to remove a terrain card from the game. That'd be great!

Maybe there's a space or denizen on the cataclysm board that allows you to remove a terrain card from the game. That'd be great!

Lets hope .