Hello Boyz,

So, after the 3 main expansions are out, and still some hope exists that there might be the one or other expansion more for DH2 (yes, I know, I am a naive optimist ;D), I asked myself what important char creation options are still missing after what we got so far ?

I for myself start with what I think might be a good addition:

Home Worlds:

> Fortress world

> Schola Progenium

> War World

Backgrounds:

> Mind-Cleansed

> Former heretic / cultist (also possible Death cultists) / Apostate

> House of power (Navigator house, Trade Cartel, Merchant House, Noble Household etc...)

> Working Class (farmer, factorum worker...)

Roles:

> Commander (Leader & strategist)

> Infiltrator (Kind of mix between assassin & seeker)

> Guardian (defensive role and supporter of others)

Elite Packages:

> Navigator (req.: noble-Born)

> Imperial Guard Regiment packages (some small packages for specific Regiments of askellon)

Any important I forgot ?

Knight World

Desert World

Ocean World

Cemetary World

Civilized World

Officio Medicae

Officio Assassinorum

Magisterial House (navigator)

Shrouded House (navigator

Menials

Roles:
Cultist

Trader

Laborer

uhhhh

I can probably think of a whole lot given more time!

The Holy Ordos for backgrounds

Questoris Familia

Knight Pilots...

Jeez yea, I need to go to bed now. XD

To your world ideas:

I thought of the "Civilized World" rather as a placeholder so far.

For many worlds that used "civilized" on the sector map, got hive world or forge world in their specific description.

I think Cementary world should already be settled by shrine world (Thaur and Ossuar, both having this specific world type).

Isnt a knight world more of a title/function than an actual world type ? If you rather refer to "real" knights, feudal would already settle that...

A desert world imo also has no own class, as other worlds also are deserts and have other types (e.g. Hrax, a feudal world made of deserts).

Ocean world would fall into the same categorie as desert world. If you mean 95% ocean with Islands, than rather the tech-level of the Islands should be important (e.g. Rund). WOrlds that are only made of oecan...well...hold no place for humans anyhow, do they ?

To your Backgrounds:

I think "Navigator house" would already be specific enough for DH - no ?

Whats the officio medicae ? Never heard of that one...

The Assassinorum might be too Special in my eyes...similar to "Space Marine Chapter".

To your roles:

I think the roles you stated would rather be Backgrounds.

Knight pilots would be Aces, no ?

I wouldnt take the ordos as Background for someone who works at the ordos...feels strange...somehow...

ALso, Xenos might be worth a thought...I know that this is a difficlut Topic though...

Living Saint. New divine powers.

Living saint ? YOu are aware this is not Deathwatch, right ;D

No, seriously. A living saint should be a little over the top.

Officio Medicae is just the Administratum's public health thing. They run hospitals, and assign medical licenses.

I have a little list using mainly older 40kRPG Lines

Homeworlds:
Fortress World

Post-cataclysmic World

Mining Station

Imperial World

Schola Progenium

Blighted Schola

Tainted Bloodline

Famulous Protegé (or should this be a Backround?)
Darkholder
Battlefleet (would definitely separate this from Imperial Navy Backround and represent naval aristocracy)

Mind-Cleansed (aslo, an Elite Advance, along the lines of Exorcised from Enemies Beyond)

Backrounds:
Lathesmaster (or generic modified AM menial, as Mutant is also Backround it seemed fitting)

Death-Cult (for me, a rather glaring omnision)

Militarum Tempestus

Cult of Red Redemption (yes, frothing fanatics, but almost a classic of 40k "civillian" line)
Kasballica (or equivalent of "Mafia", rather than lowly outcasts)

Missionaries Galaxia (I always saw them a step apart from regular Ecclesiarchy, just like Sororitas)

Ordo Praefectus (yeah, the new name for Commissariat, if one can remember that there is a more to the job than just shooting deserters...)

Cult of Pure Form (could be an elite advance as well)

...

Many specific organizations warrant their own backround package, depending on your campaign. I would also like to see "variant backrounds" (various Sororitas, or Mechanicus orders), similiar to the variant homeworlds.

Roles:

Pathfinder/Scout (this archeotype is rather missing)

Tech-Operator (along the OW lines of Operator, but also to represent, well techpriesty Techpriest/member of Mechanicum)

Senechal (probably most intriguing archeotype from RT, mixing the spymaster and buisnessman, definitely something that could be put to use in Dark Heresy)

Elite Advances:

Well, this is actually rather hard and broad. It could be used for several things, first replicate rather unique elite advances from past supplements, re-creation of more specific alternate career ranks (most of them could do with one talent, often the generic one and some pick of skills) and for creating Ascened (Inquisitor from CRB) like advances, to restrict the more OP talents (for example Imperial Stormtrooper Elite Advance could very well represent many imperial special forces, I would definitely use Interrogator as Elite Advance, as watering down the Inquisitor)

And some random musing:.

Other stuff I would love to houserule into DH2 are Influence talents from Ascension, minions from Black Crusade and Social Combat specificaly from Tome of Excess. Also I miss the Sorcery as it was presentedd in DH1

To your world ideas:

I thought of the "Civilized World" rather as a placeholder so far.

For many worlds that used "civilized" on the sector map, got hive world or forge world in their specific description.

I think Cementary world should already be settled by shrine world (Thaur and Ossuar, both having this specific world type).

Isnt a knight world more of a title/function than an actual world type ? If you rather refer to "real" knights, feudal would already settle that...

A desert world imo also has no own class, as other worlds also are deserts and have other types (e.g. Hrax, a feudal world made of deserts).

Ocean world would fall into the same categorie as desert world. If you mean 95% ocean with Islands, than rather the tech-level of the Islands should be important (e.g. Rund). WOrlds that are only made of oecan...well...hold no place for humans anyhow, do they ?

Just listing all the other planetary classifications used in the setting that hadn't been used yet. Ice World, Ocean World, and Desert world are sub classifications, true, but still just as defining as anything that can be used. Lots of room for variety here regardless on personal feelings on the subject.

To your Backgrounds:

I think "Navigator house" would already be specific enough for DH - no ?

Whats the officio medicae ? Never heard of that one...

The Assassinorum might be too Special in my eyes...similar to "Space Marine Chapter".

Perhaps it is specific enough. But you never specified suggestion criteria.

The Officio Medicae is the primary arm of the Administratum that deals with public health and medical-related issues in the Imperium, operating government-run medical facilities throughout the galaxy and on many Imperial worlds. In addition, they seem to oversee the management and quarantine of worlds or groups afflicted by plagues, such as those created and spread by Nurgle, the Chaos God of Plague. Like much of the Administratum, it is plagued by bureaucracy and procedure

The Assassinorum agents are iconic elements in Inquisitor's warbands or retinues. Definitely room for expanding on that in my eyes.

Living saint ? YOu are aware this is not Deathwatch, right ;D

No, seriously. A living saint should be a little over the top.

Power level aside why should a Living Saint not be in DH? It's far more fitting here than in Deathwatch.

I think I should point out that Living Saints would be a very brief player experience. You die, you get ressurected and embued with the Emperor's wrath for one encounter, roll new character. XD

Thousands of pilgrim Followers could hurt the warbands subtlety...a...little...

I think I should point out that Living Saints would be a very brief player experience. You die, you get ressurected and embued with the Emperor's wrath for one encounter, roll new character. XD

They display miraculous abilities even with their own lifetime, i.e. the "living" part of living saint. So that's not true. They do go super saiyan for one mission after their death though. That's the part I was referencing. Give them miraculous abilities on part with a powerful Psyker in terms of power level. That's far from op. And they'd be different from Psyker powers so any protections from Psykers would be completely useless against them.

Source on that other than the Sororitas Living Saints? I ask because their 'powers' are clearly the Faith powers of the Sororitas pre-mortem. The only real defining element to the 'Living Saint' is their ressurection and imbued power upon death, as depicted in older codexes and the Dawn of War games.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Living_Saint&ved=0ahUKEwiKjdiEzfHKAhWEVD4KHfzCDOcQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNHPz2vMn5KKBLB7AkcfbxWnTJz_ZQ&sig2=dHmR6-XlTXPPMnF0knRWuQ

The books and codexes are listed in the source section.

By no way should Living saint be a character option.

It is just way out of the league of DH.

I mean, really, whats next ? The "Returned Space Marine Primarch" class ? The "Emperor Risen" class ?

The power level should remain inside the range which DH contains now. Otherwise the game will either be drastically imbalanced

very soon, or it will be implemented in a wrong way to make it fit somehow.

I think you and I have very different ideas of what I'm suggesting here. I don't mean make them God like dude. I'm suggesting they have a few different acts of faith powers available and maybe increase the efficacy of the ones they use. The OPness would only come if they die. And even then for one encounter only then you have to roll up a new character. Is that really that big a deal? How is that that much different from a sanctioned Psyker and a Librarian? Or a Tech Priest and a Techmarine? No need to freak out, it is just a suggestion after all.

Faith Powers in original Dark Heresy were almost working like D&D divine magic and that didnt felt right. Few of them were really cringeworthy (higher powered ones, faith healing), but I think that making them more ambigius, maybe miracle maybe mundane, as presented in Battle Sister Elite Advance iN EW, is a step in the right direction. I wouldnt have a problem to give some of them to a player playing "fanatic".

Problem with Living Saints is, that there is not enough fluff on them, and that they are really in the tier of Lord Inquisitors, Lord Sectors and Chapter Masters. Heck, Faith&Coin in RT, game about insanely OP characters, just give ability to play as their dedicated followers. It depends on on your game and powerlevel, but this is even above Ascension. You can start with best-quality Thunderhawk for that matter

The problem does not start with the death of the saint. It is a "living" saint that already does his/her wonders while alive.

The powers needed to be declared a "living saint" would not only be too unbalanced for the Setting of DH as is, but also would put all the Focus more or less on 1 Players character.

You should not make the mistake to compare WH40k Saints with those of our real world.

While our Saints where/are People who did much good and stood away from sin, Saints in wh40k in most cases are Icons of the emperors power who guide the faith of the living, very commonly on the battlefield (read gaunts ghosts from abnett as reference).

Imo, even playing a space marine in a DH warband would not be as destabilizing as playing a living saint.

And SM are steel&doom and stuff

I was thinking along the lines of the kind of power exhibited by Euphrati Keeler during the beginning of the Horus Heresy. She could do some awesome things sure but an Astartes could still slaughter her. Now if you put that power in a SoB then it becomes a much closer contest. From what I've read the living saints just don't seem all that powerful to me. Interesting sure but not OP. Maybe it's a matter of interpretation.

The problem with Living Saints, and I quote from the Lexicanum entry,

Living Saints are a notoriously brief phenomena, their holy power burning out as quickly as it appeared.

Sure you can have people become saints in the common understanding where they are very devout individuals that have holy and righteous abilities, but Living Saints are a completely different ballpark. I could perhaps maybe justify a Living Saint as a replacement character with an extremely high Influence cost to requisition but it shouldn't be something that standard PCs can just get. They can build into becoming a regular saint and maybe have some form of elite advance to represent that mechanically but having the option of sainthood open at standard character creation is a bit excessive. It could form part of a high powered, Ascension-esque level game but I personally would prefer characters to build into that level of awesomeness rather than just starting with it.

I also think the game as is, is more designed as a Chtulhu kind of horror-investigation game, than a super-hero-like game with high level characters (which Deathwatch was more like).

Really a lot depends on group and Gamemaster. It could be intresting campaing, but rather than "regular" PC, it should be more focused on character itself. What it means for herself to be a potential Living Saint (could be some interesting roleplaying) and complications from the sides of various intrested parties, be it Ecclesiarchy, Thorians, or Chaos cultists looking for some nice sacrifice to the Dark Gods.

Valarion, you should probably check Blood of Martyrs for DH1 for Faith Powers. I personally dislike them (Faith Healing, like seriously?), but they could very well represent Living Saint. They would need remake to the aptitudes system and if used in DH2 I would make them Elite Advance Talent "tree".

I had an idea once for a hereticus campaign involving the team being the Inquisitorial part of an investigation for a sister being possessed by a living saint in combat and the possession...sticking sort of. She essentially suffered from reverse exorcism leaving her with charged up sister powers (basically gaining BoM DH1 powers when I had only kept the IH powers originally), and gained a large following on the battlefield after they witnessed the supposed miracles.

Would've intersected heavily with Adeptus Sororitas and the Ecclarisy as they would be digging super deep into it to trying to vie for her acceptance or purge.

Perhaps the Elite Advance could be "Touched by Purity" and involved a similar miracle event in the characters life leaving them changed (a way for anyone to gain faith powers)?

While our Saints where/are People who did much good and stood away from sin, Saints in wh40k in most cases are Icons of the emperors power who guide the faith of the living, very commonly on the battlefield (read gaunts ghosts from abnett as reference).

No. Saints in 40k are pretty much working the same way as saint in the catholic church, people that did important things and that were canonised by the Imperial Synod.

Living saints are those (freakin' rare) cases where a person display powers "given by the Emperor" and are imbued of shining purity. These cases are briefs and rares as hell.