I'm pleased to announce that the WFRP Overview video is now available. The FFG video production team has delivered another great video. I hope you enjoy learning a bit more about the game by watching the video.

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=904

I'll be watching this over and over trying to digest all the new cards and information. It's information overload right now. Thanks for the great video! Everything looks so shiny

I agree. It's a nicely made video that gives some insight into the game design, and shows off a lot of stuff from the game box and the rulebooks. There's a lot of information you can find by going frame-by-frame through it. I havent (yet), but for example I think it shows close to, if not all, the career cards. (It pans twice, once from the beginning and once from the end and you can see they are arranged in alphabetical order). It also gives some good views of the dice, which might allow us to more closely verify the number of symbols each die has. There are some new action cards, and some cards and stuff regarding Magic that I need to look at again (one that referred to channeling, I think). And so on.

Great start of the weekend!

cogollo said:

I second that! NOW I'm excited and happy that I made the advanced order. When do get it? WHEN?!

Well... I was very optimistic in the morning today.

I watched the video and was happy.

Then I went to my FLGS, spend about 2 hours there reading 3-rd edition books, shuffling cards and talking about with people there.

I must say, that my enthusiasm is a bit toned right now (don't get me wrong, I'm still buying it, and I like the core mechanic, but...).
It's not that I suddenly lost faith, or joined naysayers. No, I just probably expected too much.

At least I know how things work and look like, but still need to see that in action.

PS: Jay - diaries... I loled

Sunatet said:

Any chance you could share with the rest of us what dampened your enthusiasm?

Poe said:

Beieve me I want.

But I'm not sure if it will be approved. All in all event is in a next week. I acquired my knowledge well,,, earlier than normally possible .

Can I share my thoughts Jay? I would gladly made a topic on that.

Unless you signed some kind of NDA I wouldn't worry about it. Early or not.

Well, it is true that if you have great expectations about something you run a big risk of being disappointed.

I prefer to be optimistic about the game. I'm certain it's going to bring a lot of fresh air to the RPG world and many people are going to get into this great hobby through this game. Also, the game has so many revolutionary mechanics that it is going to inspire many other RPGs in the future.

Still, I am also certain that I won't like everything I see. When a developer creates a game he has to make compromises (I have designed a couple games for my friends so I know what I'm talking about). This means that you cannot satisfy everyone.

Some people will say the game is too simple, others will say the game is too complex... some will say the game is too grim, others will say it's too much high fantasy... and so on with almost any aspect of the game. Add to that that people who play RPGs are a strange gamer breed and they tend to be more active with the game rules than normal boardgamers, so they always have some rule to add or some rule they don't like, and at some point they act as if the rules and the setting were their property... but this is also the beauty of RPGs: you are expected to adapt the rules to your taste and to use the rules to inspire your adventures and stories and you are expected to make them part of yourself after spending so much energy and time creating stories in the setting...

A quick example: I recently tried and bought Chaos in the Old World (at Essen Fair; by the way, one of the best tactical games I've ever played; kudos to the designer, Mr. Lang). When I went to play that game, I did not have in mind changing any rule, but just trying the game and seeing how it worked out. With an RPG it's always different, because it's a simulation of some world (fantasy, horror, sci-fi, you name it) and we all have different views on what is important to simulate realistically and what can be made abstract without losing the suspension of disbelief...

So, to sum up, I wouldn't judge an RPG only on the percentage of rules that I will use as such; I will judge an RPG on its capacity to stimulate my imagination and inspire interesting and fun adventures/stories and whether it makes me take meaningful decisions or not... And, in my opinion, after reading the developer's diary and watching the videos, I'm convinced this game is going to be an important RPG landmark.

When WFRPv3 was announceded I was deeply unimpressed. However I began to warm to some aspects and was even looking forward to it. This video has now killed all the interest I had.

If this is the future of Roleplaying, then I say rest in peace Roleplaying.

Well, very slick and professionally done, and also clearly crafted to allay some of the fears expressed on these forums and elsewhere since the start of the design diaries.

So far, I'm still liking what I see. I think the dice system has a huge amount of potential, and I'm also liking their "expandability" concept.

Of course the real test will be the pre-release meetings next weekend. I'm looking forward to seeing what it's got in practice.

I would recommend waiting until the pre-release weekend before talking about anything discovered from direct observation of the game ... since you're not really supposed to know it until then. Besides, you don't really want to spoil the demo adventure and the excitement of playing that weekend for people. Anything that gets said ahead of time will taint (one way or another) people's expectations going in. Sometimes it's better to just give them a chance to find out for themselves.

I am curious what Silent Star didn't like about the video, and what "killed all interest".

I was turned-off by this film as well.

schoon said:

Schoon has expressed the addressing of fears as a positive. However, for me the addressing of fears was a sign of weakness which is a turn-off. I'll attempt to explain: FFG have chosen to throw away 23 years of successful gaming and go with an entirely different system. That is a very bold move. I think that FFG thought the old players would buy any WFRP product and I think that FFG felt the use of Boardgame mechanics would attract their boardgame fans along with some D&D fans. As a result I think FFG were very confident that WFRPv3 would do well. However, over the last couple of months WFRPv3 has been subject to a great deal of negativity and criticism from both old players and other roleplayers. As I said I felt that FFG were initially very confident, but recently I have felt that confidence begin to erode, in one of the designer diaries Jay Little accredited a design concept to another designer, the tone of the statement made me feel more like Jay was blaming his colleague than praising him. The tone of this film was even worse, it was almost apologetic. I think that FFG know that they have upset a large number of the old WFRP fans and I think they know that the wider RPG community has not embraced WFRPv3 as the new age of gaming. The feeling that this film has left me with is that FFG have lost faith in their own game.

So if FFG have no confidence in their work, why should I have any confidence in their work?

"The wider roleplaying community"...? What?

You mean posters on forums? Thats a minority among roleplayers. Hell every new edition of any rpg gets a few dozen people on each forum that yells noooooooo, every **** time producers wants to release a new edition! It does not even matter how they do it, if its six years in advance ore a few months in advance of the release, people cant stop whining. But most roleplayers dont even post on forums, they lurk.

Dont throw facts around that have no numbers.

The clip was not apologetic in any way - it was a calm and a bit wider view of what this new edition has to offer, and probably ment for those that dont read the designer dairies.. Its the same type of clip FFG have of many things they release.

Holy Sigmar said:

Holy Sigmar said:

I think people are reading way to much into the video and to things being said on the net.

With all the posts and videos, I hear FFG doing their best to sell their new system while trying to antagonize the Grognards as little as possible (they are angry enough as it is ), but I don't get the impression that they have lost confidence in their work at all - they are just trying carefully to get as many on board as possible.

The net is skewed very badly in relation to who actually buys the games as perhaps only a few percent of the buyers bother to go online and post and most of them are the negative ones, which means FFGs replies online may seem focused on dealing with them.

And funnily I got just the opposite feeling from the movie - one that indicated that they were so proud and happy about their new system that they are calling it a new way to handle RPGs - which to me risks way overselling the system; but then again it is a sales video.

Holy Sigmar said:

I'm sorry. I'm just not seeing 'apologetic' in this video. I even went back and watched it again (thinking I may have missed that tone).

What I see, and I realize, just like your statement, it's just opinion, is that they realize there are some faulty (and in some cases false) perceptions about this product and they are trying clear things up and reassure their core market that they had the right spirit in mind when they designed the game. That it is indeed an RPG. That there are some new concepts here that they hope will change the way players and GMs perceive RPG systems. They wrapped up the video by stating one of the things I've said all along, that the story is most important and that they are trying to provide tools that help players and GMs tell the best story they can.

If they can pull this off, if they can help GMs tell better stories, then I ask - where's the foul?

The video tries to cram their entire conceptualized product into just under 12 minutes. They are trying to hit all the highlights of their new offering and trying to help people to understand their intentions and design philosophies.

In the end it sounds like they are saying, "We put a lot of thought into this. We think it's fun. We hope you do too."

I think that is the correct message for this point in their marketing campaign. I, for one, wish them the best. I want to see lots of new Warhammer product that I can play with along with my buds each week. The more Warhammer there is, the happier I am. I really don't want to go back to the dark drought. Long live Warhammer

P.S. and that credit thing. Were you talking about him mentioning Owen Reece? Sounded to me like Mr. Reece is a GW rep, perhaps overseeing the project (from a licensing point of view). I think that was put there to demonstrate that GW was aware of the state of the project and had approved it.

I guess you can interpret things any way you want. It really depends on how you listen and what you want to hear. That goes for me as much as anyone

I disagree, the video's tone as very defensive. It showed no use of the system or really spoke of the system other then to show the parts. I could show you computer parts all day long, but without showing them working together I am not really showing you a computer.

As for the negative reaction to this game, I got emails from at least six friends who dont visit these boards who caught wiff of this game and reacted in profoundly negative ways. They didnt make any claim of Decent similarities or anything like that, because they are not FFG guys and dont know much of FFG.

The game is designed on the notions mentioned above. Try to draw in the D&D 4E crowd, the boardgame crowd, appeal to the MMO crowd and count on the WFRP crowd to keep the numbers up. I am not saying that Jay and crew didnt create a game that they felt fulfilled the WFRP setting and feel, but it seems way too much a editorial mandate of "make this game sell, make it new." And that was it.

And my final thought is the notion that the 2E system doesnt work or is not a playable as this new game and that the mechanicshad to be changed to save the game or make it profitable. That is a slap in the face to everyone who worked on Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader as they are 80% the same rules set.

In the end we will have to wait and see what happens. It may very well fall on its face or it may win awards. Pesonally, either way, I won't be onboard.

So why do I post then? Well its simple, I was part of 2E game crowd as well as 1E. I post because I care, because I see it as a shilling of kids and gamers for their money for a new system that was not necessary. And mainly cause I dont believe in the notion of shutting up and taking it.

After all, Im an American. So Im bull headed, even when proven wrong.

I'm not impressed by the video either... Lots of shiny stuff, lots of talking, but no substance (In Italy we call it "All smoke and no Roastbeef").

It most probably is a show off merchandising video rather than anything else.

About video's tone. As I did not directly perceive a devfensive stance err... tone, I did perceive something... "Honey Words" to speak it in V3 terms... as the video and dialogues were purely made to make the product shining out without showing anything. Not that it is so strange, being a merchandising video, but I prefer trusting presentation videos where I actually can see and perceive something real about the product, not "We totally reinvented RPG bringing it to another level. Just trust us and buy our product". Those are "Tall Words" to quote one of my favourite comicbook characters, and have to be proven right to convince me.

This video just made nothing to prove them.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Did I miss something somewhere? I don't recall anyone from FFG saying that 2E didn't work and was unplayable or that the reason for the mechanics change was to make it more profitable. I also think, if I'm not mistaken, that DH and RT are going to carry on, business as usual. I'm not seeing a lot of slapping here (though that would make a great video, particularly if there were fish, animal bladders, or other moist floppy things involved).

I also don't see anything wrong with trying to attract a larger crowd. As much as I like D&D, I think players are being cheated a little in that they are missing out on the phenomenal atmosphere of Warhammer. I hope you're right and that it wins lots of awards and it pulls lots of new player from other games so that they can play in the Warhammer world. I've spent my entire RPG career recruiting new players and telling them how great Warhammer is. I have a lot of stories to tell. I can't stop now

Peacekeeper_b said:

NezziR said:

NezziR said:

NezzIR, I'd like to state how pleasant it is to have someone with your sense of humour, relativity and friendliness on these boards. There is far too much venom and bile spewing in both directions and that's unfortunate since we are, after all, talking about something that should be a hobby, that should be fun and bring people together rather than divide them. Your posts are never aggressive or condescending and I admire that.

On topic, as I've stated before, I'm impressed by the video. I know it doesn't actually explain anything about how the system works, but it does a great job of showing the vision and the passion behind the project.

I'm running a Star Wars Saga Edition campaign right now and I'm currently trying to turn Force powers, skill uses and Feats into cards so that the players and I don't have to keep looking up their uses in the various books. It's quite a job to make those cards but I really think they're so much more convenient than having to look up everything in the books. For that reason alone, I think WFRP3 is a step in a direction that roleplaying games need to make to become more attractive and approachable for people who haven't already been playing them for years.

ragnar63 said:

Yes, because talking about the changes may cause to careful scrutiny of what the game really is, for good or bad.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Something I found somewhat amusing about the video is how in one instance the narrators are describing the Old World as a Dark 'n Grim place while the video shows the rainbow colored dice and brightly painted cards. Maybe FFG should release a CD to really help set the mood with some Pop music. Because nothing says Dark 'n Grim like comparing my rainbow colored dice to a brightly painted card while listening to some Britney Spears.

When 3e was first announced and even after reading the first couple of Designer Diaries, I tried very hard to remain optimistic. But as more information became known and new Designer Diaries were released my optimism turned to pessimism. After discussing it with some of my players I've come to realize that even if I were able to convince my group to give 3e a try, its extremely unlikely it would appeal to them (even with extensive house-rules) for any type of long-term campaign(s). So I personally can't justify spending $100+ on a game I would probably only get to play once or twice; if I'm lucky.

Innovation is good, but being innovative just for the sake of being innovative is not. I can't help but feel like FFG decided to try and reinvent the wheel with 3e and have ended up with something thats more oblong than round.