New Ship Component Ideas

By Argoden, in Rogue Trader House Rules

N_B said:

For the "U-Boat at sea" feel of supply storage.

I'd think a small (-1 or -2) Morale hit might also be in order. The extra food's nice, but the cramped conditions would be pretty annoying on a long trip. Mostly a balance issue, really. As-is, it's getting the biggest benefits of Supply Vaults at less than half the power/space cost and it's drawback is fairly uncommon in play.

N_B said:

Yeah, the idea was open to improvement. I didn't have my book handy and couldn't recall just what all the sources of pop damage were. Even so it's not a GREAT component, but I think it has flavor.

And I was trying to foster more replies.

Promenade

Power 1

Space 3

SP 1

While ships may function as space-going cities, most do not have a dedicated spaces to foster this function, instead compartmentalising the crew and limiting commerce to barter and black market. A promenade compartment functions as a ship-board "Main Street," providing formal gathering spaces for crew commerse and interaction. Here privileged crewmembers can supplement their issued rations and gear and interact with others from all over the ship.

One Gelt for the Master... : With some portion of shipboard trade inevitably ending up in the hands of the Rogue Trader, ships equipped with this component provide +50 achievement points to Commercial and Criminal Endeavors.

Did You Hear? : Wagging tongues spreading rumors from all over the ship can be good or ill. The effects of any morale loss or gain are increased by 1.

Again, open to improvement.

I really like the idea, herhaps it should be better, a large open place where the crew can "hang out" is goin to increase morale by itself, maybe as well as "Did You Hear" it should provide a permenant increase in morale by 1?

Thanks for the suggestions, all.

Re: Aod Hoc Supplies: Are fires that uncommon? From the rules on them, they might be rare but they seem pretty awful. I mean, it's basically a hit and run attack, since it moves on to other compartments when it's done, right? And at -20, the crew in general has no hope of fighting it (competent crew would be trying to roll under a 10).

Would changing the Space requirement to 3 be fair? That would put it only one less Space than the real version of Extended Supplies.

Re: Promenade: Similar question: would lowering the space requirement to 2 instead of 3 make it more attractive? I hesitate to add a straight up morale bonus since it makes morale more "swingy" in the first place.

Also, I was thinking about the Astropathic Choir idea. I can see how that might be pretty important to an RT with an actual fleet or holdings to chat with, but for the starting RT, it's probably not that big a priority. Still, having read Blind , I like the idea!

N_B said:

Thanks for the suggestions, all.

Re: Aod Hoc Supplies: Are fires that uncommon? From the rules on them, they might be rare but they seem pretty awful. I mean, it's basically a hit and run attack, since it moves on to other compartments when it's done, right? And at -20, the crew in general has no hope of fighting it (competent crew would be trying to roll under a 10).

Would changing the Space requirement to 3 be fair? That would put it only one less Space than the real version of Extended Supplies.

Re: Promenade: Similar question: would lowering the space requirement to 2 instead of 3 make it more attractive? I hesitate to add a straight up morale bonus since it makes morale more "swingy" in the first place.

Also, I was thinking about the Astropathic Choir idea. I can see how that might be pretty important to an RT with an actual fleet or holdings to chat with, but for the starting RT, it's probably not that big a priority. Still, having read Blind , I like the idea!

Hmmm, let's see:

Re: Fires, they happen on 20% of your crits before your ship's crippled, and they are fairly nasty, yes. But IME crits from NPC ships are fairly uncommon unless they're manned by player-quality NPCs. Increasing the space requirement might work, but seems a bit counter to the concept. Maybe leave the space as it but change it so to a -10 to fighting fires and emergency repairs, while keeping the benefits for cruising time and long-term repairs? That would model the way having junk crammed into every corridor gets in the way when you're in a rush, and making emergency repairs is much more common than fighting fires is, so the smaller penalties for both should still be a decent balancing drawback.

Re: Promenade, how about adding a biggish (+20?) modifier to disinformation tests? Represents the officers taking advantage of the better "grapevine" to spread comforting half-truths and boost morale. Along with the bonus to morale gains, that would probably be worth 3 space right there.

Re: Astropathic Relay, it's certainly a bit specialized, but it's also an obvious idea and really ought to be around as an option. Even "starting" RTs (ones with a single-ship dynasty, either very new or faded) could find it handy with a proper choir to staff it, since it vastly improves long-range comms. If your Warrant includes a responsibility to report your findings regularly (which is a great DM tool) it might even be a must. If you want more explicit mechanical benefits, you could have it grant an achievement point bonus (+50 or +100?) on any objective involving astropathic communications. That could represent better comms (Exploration, Creed, Trade, Criminal) or telepathic spying on enemy astropathy (Military, Trade, Criminal).

The -10 to emergency repairs sounds like a better idea. I like that a lot.

Similarly, the Disinformation bonus is great. I like that it's not "always on" and somebody actually has to take action to gain it. That's really pretty fair. Dunno about +20, but then I guess I'm just stingy. Disinformation just reduces morale damage, right? Otherwise I'd wonder about how it interacts with the "morale loss or gain increased by 1" thing.

I don't think the Choir would need anything more than it already has, honestly. I can see the achievement bonus, but it would have to be very conditional, like what you did with the Hexagrammic Supression Cells. The "endeavour relies on astropathic communications" seems too broad; I know my players would try to shoehorn that one in every time. (Though I'm now imagining a long-con type Criminal objective that relies on faked astropathic transmissions sent from all over the sector.)

N_B said:

The -10 to emergency repairs sounds like a better idea. I like that a lot.

Similarly, the Disinformation bonus is great. I like that it's not "always on" and somebody actually has to take action to gain it. That's really pretty fair. Dunno about +20, but then I guess I'm just stingy. Disinformation just reduces morale damage, right? Otherwise I'd wonder about how it interacts with the "morale loss or gain increased by 1" thing.

I don't think the Choir would need anything more than it already has, honestly. I can see the achievement bonus, but it would have to be very conditional, like what you did with the Hexagrammic Supression Cells. The "endeavour relies on astropathic communications" seems too broad; I know my players would try to shoehorn that one in every time. (Though I'm now imagining a long-con type Criminal objective that relies on faked astropathic transmissions sent from all over the sector.)

Re: Disinformation, that's the action (during ship combat) to boost morale by 1d5 per DoS, not Hold Fast, which reduces losses after the fact. It takes a -10 as a base. Maybe +20 is too generous in retrospect. +10 (which pretty much translates directly to 1d5 morale if you succeed at all) is still pretty good.

Re: Choir granting achievement, if you're going to use it at all, the DM (not the players) should be the one deciding if a given objective qualifies. If there's opposition, the criteria ought to be whether they're using astropathy enough to make listening in a real aid, and it should be dependent on your breaking their codes. If there isn't (eg an exploration mission) then you should only allow a bonus if (say) getting word back to the Imperium relatively quickly and reliably will help you make money or earn favors. For ex, you might have made a deal with a trading house or the Adeptus Mechanicus to give them info about new discoveries ASAP.

Argoden said:

Re: Fires, they happen on 20% of your crits before your ship's crippled, and they are fairly nasty, yes. But IME crits from NPC ships are fairly uncommon unless they're manned by player-quality NPCs.

Just a tip, don't pull your punches as a GM in starship combat. The Player Characters already have a huge advantage when it comes to normal combat by having access to some seriously powerful wargear when fighting against human targets. Starship combat should, in my opinion, be more leveled and thereby pretty dangerous. So don't hesitate for a moment of letting NPC ships use extended actions like Aid the machine spirit and boost their detection for use during a Lock-on action, and "Put your backs into it!"-actions to boost the gunners BS before firing their guns at the PC's ship, rather than just rolling against a BS of 30 or 40 all the time.

Starship combat will quickly lose the sense of tension and danger if the NPC ships hardly ever cause any critical hits to the players ship, so my advice for any GM is to not pull their punches during these situations.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Just a tip, don't pull your punches as a GM in starship combat. The Player Characters already have a huge advantage when it comes to normal combat by having access to some seriously powerful wargear when fighting against human targets. Starship combat should, in my opinion, be more leveled and thereby pretty dangerous. So don't hesitate for a moment of letting NPC ships use extended actions like Aid the machine spirit and boost their detection for use during a Lock-on action, and "Put your backs into it!"-actions to boost the gunners BS before firing their guns at the PC's ship, rather than just rolling against a BS of 30 or 40 all the time.

Starship combat will quickly lose the sense of tension and danger if the NPC ships hardly ever cause any critical hits to the players ship, so my advice for any GM is to not pull their punches during these situations.

Sure, use all the options open to your DM ships, won't argue that. Still tricky to get crits when you're testing on 30-40 base skills, since the "boosting" actions don't succeed all that often either. I do hesitate to build NPC officers for them that are as good or better than the PCs are. If every pirate raider or cultist-run merchant has a captain who can match the RT or voidmaster in skills and stats, the players start to feel much less heroic. I'd rather save that sort of NPC for dramatic clashes with "boss" ships and leave the lesser vessels just running on crew skill. You can still produce a challenge by outnumbering, outmassing, or both, or you can give the DM ships some funky trick (xeno or archeotech, ambushes, etc).

Beating an equally-skilled rival is nice, but there's also something gratifying to beating two-three times your number in skut ships, y'know?

Argoden said:

Re: Disinformation, that's the action (during ship combat) to boost morale by 1d5 per DoS, not Hold Fast, which reduces losses after the fact. It takes a -10 as a base. Maybe +20 is too generous in retrospect. +10 (which pretty much translates directly to 1d5 morale if you succeed at all) is still pretty good.

Re: Choir granting achievement, if you're going to use it at all, the DM (not the players) should be the one deciding if a given objective qualifies. If there's opposition, the criteria ought to be whether they're using astropathy enough to make listening in a real aid, and it should be dependent on your breaking their codes. If there isn't (eg an exploration mission) then you should only allow a bonus if (say) getting word back to the Imperium relatively quickly and reliably will help you make money or earn favors. For ex, you might have made a deal with a trading house or the Adeptus Mechanicus to give them info about new discoveries ASAP.

I was thinking of Hold Fast. I agree with the +10 figure.

Right. I was just anticipating fielding a lot of requests. Anyway, I think that the real boon would be like I mentioned ealier, allowing the RT to keep in touch with all his holdings better. If my group had this component, it would probably relay a steady stream of plot hooks to them.

Argoden said:

Sure, use all the options open to your DM ships, won't argue that. Still tricky to get crits when you're testing on 30-40 base skills, since the "boosting" actions don't succeed all that often either. I do hesitate to build NPC officers for them that are as good or better than the PCs are. If every pirate raider or cultist-run merchant has a captain who can match the RT or voidmaster in skills and stats, the players start to feel much less heroic. I'd rather save that sort of NPC for dramatic clashes with "boss" ships and leave the lesser vessels just running on crew skill. You can still produce a challenge by outnumbering, outmassing, or both, or you can give the DM ships some funky trick (xeno or archeotech, ambushes, etc).

Beating an equally-skilled rival is nice, but there's also something gratifying to beating two-three times your number in skut ships, y'know?

Base skills of 30-40 are still no laughing matter, as long as you make sure that every ship will attempt a mandatory "Put your backs into it", "Aid the Machine Spirit" and "Lock-On" in that order before taking the shot.

If the "Put your backs into it" just succeed, the NPC's can chalk up an additional +5 to their Ballistic skill (then we're up at 45, assuming we're using the standard Crack crew like most NPC ships have), if they succeed with a lot of degrees of success (like the GM rolling somewhere between 1-10) their BS will be up to somewhere between 50 or 55.

Assuming they succeed with "Aid the Machine Spirit" to boost their detection and then succeeding with "Lock-On" they will get an additional +5 so by then we're well up to at least 60 in BS.

Also if we're talking raider vessels here, then they will probably attempt to pass by the PC ship while blazing away, so during some circumstances we can assume they will be firing under their effective range, which is another +10 to their BS, and by then we're up at 70.

If you want to spice up things you can say that they don't just use one single gunner but two or three gunners, and so you'll be able to roll one d100 against the boosted BS three times rather than one (it might not hit as hard, but it will most likely hit and cause the PC's to sweat a little).

If they are attacked by several vessels, then statistically we can assume that the PC's ship will take a few hits and some of them stand a very good chance of being critical hits, and this without having to resort using NPC bridge officers with skillvalues through the roof.

I'd say that using this method should be mandatory for the GM most of the time, since no PC in their right mind would just roll against their unmodified BS when using the ships guns, even if they have an insane amount like 60-70 in it, they would want the benefit of "Put your backs into it" and/or "Aid the machine spirit" + "Lock-on" if the other PC's aren't tied up doing other things that round.

It seems only fair that if the PC's would act smart enough, a "crack" crew of an enemy NPC vessel would do the smart thing too, not just take wild potshots at the PC's ship. Except for Orks perhaps, since they would most likely just try to gun their engines to their limits in order to close in as fast as possible to be able to board them, but vessels run by humans or at least a crew of equal to human intellect should be dangerous mainly because they would do the smart thing, and not act stupid in the heat of battle.

It's kind of like the same thing in normal combat involving human enemies. They don't have unnatural toughness or an extreme amount of wounds, so they won't be able to take getting hit several times by the PC's weapons, so if the GM just make the NPC humans act like stupid cannon fodder, rushing towards the PC's with their guns blazing, then the PC's will easily be able to cut them down and only take minor injuries. BUT if the human NPC's act smart, like using suppressive fire, taking advantage of cover, trying to catch the PC's in a crossfire, using the full-auto function of their guns, using grenades, coordinating theirt attacks etc. etc. then human enemies could prove to be the most dangerous kind of enemies in the galaxy (which they should be most of the time unless they are crazed cultists).

Varnias Tybalt said:

Base skills of 30-40 are still no laughing matter, as long as you make sure that every ship will attempt a mandatory "Put your backs into it", "Aid the Machine Spirit" and "Lock-On" in that order before taking the shot.

If the "Put your backs into it" just succeed, the NPC's can chalk up an additional +5 to their Ballistic skill (then we're up at 45, assuming we're using the standard Crack crew like most NPC ships have), if they succeed with a lot of degrees of success (like the GM rolling somewhere between 1-10) their BS will be up to somewhere between 50 or 55.

Assuming they succeed with "Aid the Machine Spirit" to boost their detection and then succeeding with "Lock-On" they will get an additional +5 so by then we're well up to at least 60 in BS.

Lock-On could be more than +5, but the catch to all of that is you're still having to make multiple tests to boost the eventual shot(s). Given that the odds of even basic success on each "boost" skill test is less than 50%, the chance of getting a shot with +20 or more is pretty unlikely, and even that won't let you get the 4-5 successes needed for a crit all that often. With dual batteries you should score the ~3-4 successes needed to do hull damage past armor fairly often even with NPC skills, but crits are rarer.

Of course, lance-and-battery ships have an easier time of it. One success (or two versus cruisers) with the macros and then even a basic hit with the lance does significant hull damage.

Argoden said:

Lock-On could be more than +5, but the catch to all of that is you're still having to make multiple tests to boost the eventual shot(s). Given that the odds of even basic success on each "boost" skill test is less than 50%, the chance of getting a shot with +20 or more is pretty unlikely, and even that won't let you get the 4-5 successes needed for a crit all that often. With dual batteries you should score the ~3-4 successes needed to do hull damage past armor fairly often even with NPC skills, but crits are rarer.

Of course, lance-and-battery ships have an easier time of it. One success (or two versus cruisers) with the macros and then even a basic hit with the lance does significant hull damage.

Which is why NPC vessels should be equipped with at least dorsal mounted macro batteries and prow mounted lance weapons.

Oh, and they should outnumber the PC's ship as well. (if the NPC vessels have to make do with just Crack crew skills and characteristics, the least they can have is the benefit of outnumbering)

Varnias Tybalt said:

Argoden said:

Lock-On could be more than +5, but the catch to all of that is you're still having to make multiple tests to boost the eventual shot(s). Given that the odds of even basic success on each "boost" skill test is less than 50%, the chance of getting a shot with +20 or more is pretty unlikely, and even that won't let you get the 4-5 successes needed for a crit all that often. With dual batteries you should score the ~3-4 successes needed to do hull damage past armor fairly often even with NPC skills, but crits are rarer.

Of course, lance-and-battery ships have an easier time of it. One success (or two versus cruisers) with the macros and then even a basic hit with the lance does significant hull damage.

Which is why NPC vessels should be equipped with at least dorsal mounted macro batteries and prow mounted lance weapons.

Oh, and they should outnumber the PC's ship as well. (if the NPC vessels have to make do with just Crack crew skills and characteristics, the least they can have is the benefit of outnumbering)

Here's something for you then...

Chaos Gift: Mark of Nurgle

This ship is immune to boarding actions or hit and run attacks. +5 Hull Points

Requirement: Captain and crew must be sworn to the Ruinous Powers and gained the favor of Grandfather Nurgle...

Chaos Gift: Mark of Khorne

The crew of this ship doubles it's moral when taking part in boarding actions.

Requirement: Captain and crew must be sworn to the Ruinous Powers and gained the favor of Khorne...

Chaos Gift: Mark of Tzeench

The commander of this ship may make one free re-roll of any check per turn. However, they must accept the new roll, even if it is worse then the original.

Requirement: Captain and crew must be sworn the the Ruinous Powers and gained the favor of Tzeench, the Changer of Ways...

Chaos Gift: Mark of Slaanesh

Enemy ships within 6 VU of this ship temporarilly lose -10 Moral. This moral is automatically regained if they move morethen 6 VU away or this ship is destroyed.

Requirement: Captain and Crew must be sworn to the Ruinous Powers and gained the favor of Slaanesh...

BaronIveagh said:

Chaos Gift: Mark of Nurgle

This ship is immune to boarding actions or hit and run attacks. +5 Hull Points

Requirement: Captain and crew must be sworn to the Ruinous Powers and gained the favor of Grandfather Nurgle...

While this is simply a conversion from the BFG rules for the Marks of Chaos... it does, from a Rogue Trader perspective, take the fun away... afterall, it denies the GM the opportunity to present his players with a boarding action onto a ship that weeps pus and phlegm from every air vent and access port, where the deck plating is carved from yellowed bone and where the cables and conduits that run along every hallway are more akin to intestines. Where the foul smell pervades even the self-contained void suits of the boarding party, and the enemy crew are leperous mutants who cry for death even as their diseased, malformed bodies lash out under the thrall of their infections. And where a single stray shot could result in a spray of corrosive bile that eats through flesh and voidsuit alike, infecting the unlucky armsman with countless diseases...

I don't see it taking away from any sort of fun, because no player group familiar with the Warhammer mythos would ever want to board a Nurgle chaos ship in the first place. And if they did, they'd deserve everything that happened to them as a result.

After all, N0-1_H3r3 makes the whole prospect sound so tempting...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

While this is simply a conversion from the BFG rules for the Marks of Chaos... it does, from a Rogue Trader perspective, take the fun away... afterall, it denies the GM the opportunity to present his players with a boarding action onto a ship that weeps pus and phlegm from every air vent and access port, where the deck plating is carved from yellowed bone and where the cables and conduits that run along every hallway are more akin to intestines. Where the foul smell pervades even the self-contained void suits of the boarding party, and the enemy crew are leperous mutants who cry for death even as their diseased, malformed bodies lash out under the thrall of their infections. And where a single stray shot could result in a spray of corrosive bile that eats through flesh and voidsuit alike, infecting the unlucky armsman with countless diseases...

These in-depth descriptions usually do not happen during starship combat anyway, even during Hit & Run attacks.

I don't think it would be impossible to dock and board a vessel with the Mark of Nurgle, only there might be certain difficulties trying to figure out where to clamp melta charges and sabotage the vessel from within, with everything covered in filth and decayed bio-matter and all the noxious fumes everywhere.

A crafty GM could easily invent other reasons for why the PC's might want to board a Nurgle infested vessel. Perhaps one of them has been taken prisoner by whoever is running the Nurgle ship and needs to be rescued? Perhaps there's some artifact aboard the Nurgle vessel that would spell the doom of an entire world or several worlds or perhaps an entire sub-sector?

Varnias Tybalt said:

These in-depth descriptions usually do not happen during starship combat anyway, even during Hit & Run attacks.

I don't think it would be impossible to dock and board a vessel with the Mark of Nurgle, only there might be certain difficulties trying to figure out where to clamp melta charges and sabotage the vessel from within, with everything covered in filth and decayed bio-matter and all the noxious fumes everywhere.

A crafty GM could easily invent other reasons for why the PC's might want to board a Nurgle infested vessel. Perhaps one of them has been taken prisoner by whoever is running the Nurgle ship and needs to be rescued? Perhaps there's some artifact aboard the Nurgle vessel that would spell the doom of an entire world or several worlds or perhaps an entire sub-sector?

An out-and-out ban on attempting to board a ship with the Mark of Nurgle serves nobody's interests on this scale; the point here is to define consequences and reasons why (on the larger and inherently less detailed scale presented by BFG) it's extremely uncommon, not to simply go "no, you can't do it".

Back to the matter at hand. The notion of broadly-defining Marks of Chaos has typically seemed more of a wargame abstraction to me; when the opportunity exists to define things in more detail, the effects of the Marks of Chaos are more properly represented, IMO, by a range of Chaos Gifts and similar effects...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

An out-and-out ban on attempting to board a ship with the Mark of Nurgle serves nobody's interests on this scale; the point here is to define consequences and reasons why (on the larger and inherently less detailed scale presented by BFG) it's extremely uncommon, not to simply go "no, you can't do it".

Did I say that I thought it should be banned?

No I didn't. I even demonstrated examples where it could be possible. It's just that the Mark of Nurgle might provide the ship with an immunity for Hit and Run attacks (i.e being able to effectively board the vessel and sabotage it's inner workings as efficient and as destructive as possible), but that doesn't necessarily make it completely impossible to actually board the vessel...

Varnias Tybalt said:

An out-and-out ban on attempting to board a ship with the Mark of Nurgle serves nobody's interests on this scale; the point here is to define consequences and reasons why (on the larger and inherently less detailed scale presented by BFG) it's extremely uncommon, not to simply go "no, you can't do it".

Did I say that I thought it should be banned?

No, you didn't, but the original post for the Marks certainly did. Bit much, really.

Myself, I think they're all over-strong, largely because they're too closely modelled after BFG, where the importance and frequency of boarding and hit & runs is somewhat lower than in RT. They'd probably be better as NPC-only ship's Past History than as components anyway - not that the OP listed space/power/SP cost for them anyway. Giving a bonus and a drawback like other complications do would make them far more balanced.

Did anyone suggest that the Ruinous Powers were fair?

Pirates and other scum are one thing, but to face the might of Chaos is entirely something else.

By the way, what are the armsmens odds against Plague Marines anyway? If your players have ever heard of Warhammer or 40k and you start off with 'The ship's lines seem to twist and undulate, blaspheamous runes dancing across it's putrecent hide..." smart players will either run like hell or hit it with everything they have. Particularly if it's a daemonship...

By the way, what are the armsmens odds against Plague Marines anyway?

Slim to none, though they'd be the same against any other kind of Marines. However, most ships of Chaos will only be populated by the standard Lost&Damned.

Cifer said:

Slim to none, though they'd be the same against any other kind of Marines. However, most ships of Chaos will only be populated by the standard Lost&Damned.

If they are even crewed at all. If Chaos can have tanks infested with daemonic entities driving them, with no need for an actual "humanoid" driver, then their ships can certainly be crewed by the same thing.

How would you hope to board and sabotage a ship where all the hallways and corridors are blocked up by daemonic flesh, forming maws with razor sharp teeth at will, swallowing up any potential saboteurs?

Like a previous poster said: Who says chaos have to be "fair"? gran_risa.gif

(also, it is pretty much implied that Marks of Chaos aren't meant to be components available to PC's, but rather being NPC ships only)

Heck, why should most vessels of either warp tainted or alien origin be fair? I actually made up some stats for the Void Wasps desribed in the pre-written scenario Dark Frontier (just in case my players would try some sort of stunt involving shooting at them).

I had no problem ruling that since the Void Wasps were basically automated drone vessels, designed to guard the fortress they don't have a crew or even conventional hulls that you can break in to and board. Luckily for the players they didn't try something so stupid as boarding one of them, but if they had, they would have been in for a nasty surprise, because the ships would pretty much be solid blocks of crystal and dark metal. Impossible to teleport or break into with just a boarding craft, unless your plan is to "excavate" the outside of the vessel and create a cavity big enough to plant explosives inside of it.

This is just my opinion of course, but I don't think GM's should be too concerned of "being fair" when it comes to Chaos vessels and certain xenos vessels. They are supposed to be scary, not comperhensible and easily subjected to conventional tactics in starship warfare.

If my group of players ever happen to stumble across some Necron vessels, they should be glad if they escape with their very lives.

'tis the grimdark thing to do. demonio.gif

(Cifer, note that most of this post wasn't directed at you only, but more of a general extrapolation happy.gif )

Varnias Tybalt said:

If they are even crewed at all. If Chaos can have tanks infested with daemonic entities driving them, with no need for an actual "humanoid" driver, then their ships can certainly be crewed by the same thing.

To be fair, Daemonships, like ships commanded by Chaos Space Marines, are a step further up the "Oh Throne, they're eating my soul!" food chain than even 'normal' chaos-tainted ships.

Varnias Tybalt said:

This is just my opinion of course, but I don't think GM's should be too concerned of "being fair" when it comes to Chaos vessels and certain xenos vessels. They are supposed to be scary, not comprehensible and easily subjected to conventional tactics in starship warfare.

Agreed in this regard. Otherwise I'd never have written all those nasty, nasty Tyranid rules.

The 40k universe is not a nice place. And the parts outside the Imperium are worse...

This thread's meandered off topic rather badly of late. In an attempt to put things back on track, here's another new toy:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Augments & Enhancements:

Auxilliary Plasma Reactors
Power 0
Space 5
SP 3

Installing additional plasma reactors on a ship greatly increases available power for other systems, but they are bulky, expensive, and prone to catastrophic containment failure when damaged.

Crackling With Power: Each Auxilliary Plasma Reactor on a ship provides 5 extra Power.

Volatile: If the Component is damaged, it explodes. The ship takes 2d5 damage to Hull Integrity, and a Component of the GM's choice is set on fire.

Obvious Signature: Any success on a Focused Augury test will detect this Component. When choosing a Component for a critical hit effect, Auxilliary Plasma Reactors may always be selected by the attacker, even if the ship has Incomprehensible Layout or a similar rules mechanic preventing it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Inefficient compared to the main drives, but at least it gives you an option for increasing power output. Meltdown makes them very risky, especially with more than one onboard to catch fire in chains. Obvious Signature exists mostly to prevent the usual Munitorium + Tenebro-Maze trick. Bypassing a single exploding arsenal is one thing, but plasma reactors are too hard to conceal and covering several of them with a maze is too good. Volatile makes it suicidal to install these things in an exposed (zero space cost) position, but you could build a scenario around a ship having external Auxilliary Plasma Reactors installed as part of a special mission. Good way to handicap one side or the other.

Actually, to repurpose the Marks of Chaos idea for player use: how about "Ecclesiarchal Blessing" or something? It would be a 0 Space option (probably 0 Power, too) sort of like the Warpsbane Hull. It would probably be incompatible with the Warpsbane Hull, though, since I imagine it would be giant hundred-meter-long purity seals and parchments enscribed with prayers festooning the exterior of the ship (ridiculous, I know but that's 40k for you).

Not sure about what benefit it would provide, though.

I think there needs to be a couple alternatives to Warpsbane Hull, though. It's almost too attractive.