GLoAQ
Can the hero party attack multiple Lieutenants and visit a city in the same game week action?
Yes, but they may visit the town only after all Lieutenant battles have ended.

FAQ
Q: What happens when there are multiple lieutenants in the same space as the hero party? If the heroes (or the overlord) choose to attack, are both lieutenants present at the same encounter?
A: Each lieutenant is an entire encounter unto himself. If the heroes choose to attack a lieutenant when there are two or more lieutenants in the same space, they must choose one to encounter.

This would seem to conflict, in that the FAQ indicates the party must choose one lieutenant to encounter, but the GLoAQ says they can encounter multiples. As the rulebook itself is vague on the issue, having two seemingly different yet equally official answers is a bit confusing, and could mean the difference between a win or a loss depending on which source a group found first.

What's the best way to get an official answer on this, or better yet, get that official answer added to the FAQ?

All the GLAOQ says is that they party can attack multiple LTs during their game week. Fighting them in separate encounters (as indicated by the FAQ) is still fighting multiple LTs. in the same game week.

The FAQ answer could be read as meaning " when you decide to have a lieutenant fight, you have to choose just one lieutenant to fight" and not saying anything about the minimum or maximum number of times you can do that in a turn. It could be worded better if that was the intent, though.

SamVimes said:

+1

You can encounter multiple Lts, and they are all separate encounters.

What's the best way to get an official answer on this, or better yet, get that official answer added to the FAQ?

SamVimes said:

Yes, the answers are complementary, not contradictory.

The GLOAQ answer says that you can fight multiple (more than one) Lts per week, and the FAQ answer says that you must choose which Lt to fight so you don't fight them all at once on the same encounter map, but after that fight you can still choose to attack a second Lt in the same week if it is in the same location.

That is how both answers could make sense in any case.

James McMurray said:

Divine intervention. Or have a giant forum argument about it exactly on the day that they happen to be working on a new version of the FAQ.

You can try using their official rules question form to send it in, but don't get your hopes up.

James McMurray said:

Request another FAQ update, which I have tried to do about 5 times over the last three months and gotten no response.

This is probably a silly question. Where is the rules question form? I don't see a link to it on the Descent support page, which is where it seems like it should be.

Its not silly, since they appear to have gone out of the way to hide it.

If you scroll the very very bottom of this page, you will find the copyright 2009 FFG games in gray. Right below that is a list, also in gray and Rules Questions is on there. That will take you to the form.

Be advised...I personally have submitted a few different questions for a total of about 10 times, and never got a response. Since the forum was moved to this new software, I actually do not know of ANYONE who has gotten a response to a rules question through that form.

I guess it can't hurt to try. Thanks!

If I happen to get a response, I'll post it here.

Big Remy said:

I received one single answer to a ToI-related question, shortly after its release, which was under the current forum - so in theory it works (all other questions, about 10) were left unanswered, yet some made it into the FAQ.

Best guess is that they are currently looking for SoB questions, so it might be worth a try...

I heard back from Customer Service (after asking the internet branch to make sure their online form was working).

----

These aren't necessarily contradictory. Although the FAQ answer could easily be read to suggest that you only battle one LT per turn (and I think I wrote it with that intention, although it was a long time ago), it does not expressly state that. It merely makes it clear that you battle one LT at a time – you "choose one to encounter," but per the forum rules answer you could then choose to encounter the other after the first encounter has been completely resolved.

In fact, I seem to recall an FAQ answer to the tune of "you can then encounter the next LT if you are still in the same space, i.e. you won the battle or the space in question is Tamalir."

Okay, I just reread the FAQ - here's the full text of the relevant question:

Q: What happens when there are multiple lieutenants in the same space as the hero party? If the heroes (or the overlord) choose to attack, are both lieutenants present at the same encounter?
A: Each lieutenant is an entire encounter unto himself. If the heroes choose to attack a lieutenant when there are two or more lieutenants in the same space, they must choose one to encounter. The overlord may attack the hero party with one lieutenant at a time. Only if the heroes are still in the same location at the end of the encounter (if the heroes win or the lieutenant flees, or if the space in question is Tamalir) can the next lieutenant attack

It seems to imply you can only attack one LT per turn.

----

Unfortunately, the answer seems to be "it doesn't look like anything stops you from attacking multiple lieutenants... oh wait, maybe it does..."

Kevin made it clear that encoutering LTs happens BEFORE the Party can Visit the city. He also made it clear in the GoLAQ that the Party can encounter multiple LTs at the end of their movement action. The FAQ does a really crappy job at incorporating this and only mentions this on the OL side of initiating encounters.

I've been involved with this whole LT encounter mess since first reading the rules they put out just before the release of the expansion and it just seems that FFG keeps making rulings that just muddy the issues with the rules and existing FAQ rulings. Part of this, I'm sure, is the choice of wording of the questions asked. Base on all the thought I've spent reading and discussing the whole LT encounter issue on the old forums this is how I understand it:

You can attack multiple LTs however you can only do so one at a time. If you die during that first encounter, your week ends and you cannot attack one of the other LTs there nor visit the town. If you flee the first encounter, you cannot attack one of the other LTs but you can still visit the town location. If you succeed in defeating the first LT encounter, you can then choose to encounter the 2nd and so forth and so on. Once you have attacked at LT (or LTs) successfully, you can then use the VISIT circumstance for the town you are at.

The REASON you must choose one LT to encounter is simply because you cannot encounter 2 LTs at the same time. This is what is meant by "separate encounter" in the FAQ.

That's how I interpret it too, and how I think it has to be played to prevent some overlords from building an unstoppable lieutenant chain between their keep and Tamalir. But we go with the official source whenever we can, and customer service has backed the FAQ interpretation of just one lieutenant fight per week on the heroes' part, so we'll stick with it.

I'll be OL next, and won't be trying to siege Tamalir, so it doesn't mean an auto-win, but it does mean it'll be a lot harder for them to stop me from sieging 4 towns for Ascension.

James McMurray said:

I realize with horror that even FFG people employed to answer rules questions seem to have no more clue than the average forum dweller. "It seems to imply"? What kind of "official" answer is that?! Why not "I guess" or "maybe" or "huh?" while we're at it?!

At least now we know why rules questions get answered with so much delay/difficulty: the very makers of the game don't know either.

We are left with deciding answers for ourselves.

Q: "What are the rules for Descent?"

A: "Home rules."

James McMurray said:

Yeah... the explanation given does seem a bit ambiguous with "and I think I wrote it with that intention, although it was a long time ago", "In fact, I seem to recall an FAQ answer to the tune of "you can then encounter the next LT if you are still in the same space, i.e. you won the battle or the space in question is Tamalir."" and "It seems to imply you can only attack one LT per turn" all in the same response.

It makes sense to me that the Party shouldn't have an infinite number "end movement in the same space as" actions and 1 LT encounter and (if successful) 1 town action under the VISIT circumstance could work. Especially with the rulebook stating that after every encounter regardless of the outcome: 3. All heroes are restored to full fatigue. 4. All heroes may drink any number of potions and use any
healing items they wish.

I'll accept the ruling... for now. It's not like I ever get to play Descent and especially RTL very frequently these days anyway.

Well, it *is* a good thing that they're checking the FAQ and trying not to contradict previous rulings, even if the previous rulings aren't 100% clear. But this also seems to confirm that the people at FFG answering questions don't actually have enough familiarity with the game to do a good job at it.

Antistone said:

Think we need to start an elected Descent Players Committee for rules arbitration? Have folks on the forum nominate some candidates for 4-6 positions then vote?

Oboewan said:

Better make it an uneven number like 3, 5 or 7 lest we get stuck with draws!

Or even better, make it 1 so there are no endless arguments for every question!

My vote goes to Antistone. He has created plenty of new rules for Descent already, so he should be qualified enough to fill any existing voids, even though I never seem to agree with him.

Ispher said:

Mine would too, except he has expressed disinterest in playing RtL and less familiarity with those rules (and particularly cards).

James McMurray said:

The FAQ is clear enough that it is talking about not fighting 2 Lts in one battle, rather than not fighting 2 Lts in one week.

If Lt fights were restricted to 1/week then the OL has a practically guaranteed win.
Example with the Beastman Lord;
5 Lts arrive at Tamalir, heroes fight 1. 4 place seige tokens, 1 moves to Vynevale, heroes fight one. 3 place seige tokens, one moves to River watch, one moves to Vynevale, heroes fight one. 2 place seige tokens, one moves next to Tamalir, one to Riverwatch, 1 to Vynevale, heroes fight one. Even a max fortified Tamailr is now fazing raze rolls. And now there will always be 2 heroes at Tamalir, one getting beaten away, the other remaining for a raze roll a new one rolling in off the chain.

Some other avatars are even closer. Demon is only 3 spaces from Tamalir, and Titan either 2 or 3 IIRC. Both can also set up such chainso it very cheaply in CT too.

To take a 'it could be read' and a 'I think I wrote it that way but it was a long time ago' answer that creates such a pathetic rule as 'official'... well, like you say, you'll deliberately not play your best so that the rule won't matter too much.

.

James McMurray said:

You are right to mention the possibility of an unstoppable lieutenant chain, because with the Demon Prince and his Keep-Nerekhall-Greyhaven-Tamalir way, it would be easy to accomplish. All he'd need is 4 lieutenants of which 2 in Tamalir, one in Nerekhall and one in Greyhaven or even only one in any of these two cities + the Gem of Transport, and it would be game over for the heroes even if the lieutenants always flee on the first turn as there would always be 1 lieutenant in Tamalir at the beginning of every week (each time a lieutenant flees to his keep, another one comes back). No need of Treachery, no need of upgraded monsters, just 4 lieutenants, a Gem of Transport and the heroes trying to get to any location slightly away from Tamalir (like a Secret Master or a Legendary Dungeon).

The heroes need to be able to fight more than one lieutenant a week if they are in the same location, otherwise the game is unplayable (or only playable with the OL's "kindness", which would be completely against the spirit of the game). Do you really intend to make the game unplayable for your group (or make it depend on your kindness as the OL) on the back of an "official ruling" that "seems to imply"?

My nominating vote goes to Big Remy, emphatically.

Oboewan, it's interesting that you proposed this idea. I was thinking the very same thing. I'm not sure how much value the FAQ rulings even have anymore after several answers in the most "recent" FAQ actually contradicted the rule book, while at the same time offering absolutely no explanation as to why..

Corbon said:

Yeah... IIRC, that's one of the points we discussed in depth on the old forums that eventually led to Kevin Wilson's answer in the GoLAQ

Assuming the Customer Service representave that responded to the question WASN'T Kevin Wilson, I'd be more inclined to follow the words in the GoLAQ from Kevin himself.

"Can the hero party attack multiple Lieutenants and visit a city in the same game week action?
Yes, but they may visit the town only after all Lieutenant battles have ended."