What happens when I have Black Squire and I encounter the Living Doll?

http://www.talismanwiki.com/Black_Squire

http://www.talismanwiki.com/Living_Doll

Do I have to pay fate to take the doll, or is paying fate still optional?

The way I read black squire it says that I can take an object if I so choose but I have to pay fate first. But the doll is mandatory.

You actually have to rid yourself of the doll before you can have any other objects. You can have no other objects until you visit the Alchemist in the City and exchange it for 1 gold.

**Edit* I see your question is different than what I thought, sorry.

From a flavor text point of view, the doll seems to be a cursed object, though not names as such, but you are compelled to drop any objects you have and take her, so my guess... is the paying of Fate is optional, since you would still have to take it if you had no Fate. Probably, you pay fate if you have it but if not, you must still take it (and dump your other objects).

From a flavor text point of view, ...

I would prefers rules point of view

No, actually if I had no fate, black squire would prohibit me from taking the doll.

My understanding would be that if you have any fate you MUST lose 1 fate and take the object, but if you had no fate you CANNOT take the object.

In terms of mechanics, isn't this almost the same as Hag / Poltergeist? (e.g. you have the Hag so can't take the Poltergeist with you.)

So, if you can pay fate to take the doll, you have to do it - if you can't pay because you have none - **** lucky you.

[Regarding the old "cursed" cards - I was thinking of just houseruling them to have the keyword - seems fitting that way.]

What happens when I have Black Squire and I encounter the Living Doll?

http://www.talismanwiki.com/Black_Squire

http://www.talismanwiki.com/Living_Doll

Do I have to pay fate to take the doll, or is paying fate still optional?

The way I read black squire it says that I can take an object if I so choose but I have to pay fate first. But the doll is mandatory.

This is a problem of conflicting "musts", like a Lycanthrope at night that lands on a space with both a character and a Dragon King's scale. He must attack the character and must encounter the dragon scale at the same time.

There's no available rule to sort this, not even the Simultaneous Effects (they are not simultaneous, but alternative). As a house rule, you may roll a die as a tie-breaker.

I think you would be forced to take the Living Doll AND pay 1 fate if you have fate to spend, but you cannot take the Doll if you have no fate at all. That's my opinion.

This is a problem of conflicting "musts", like a Lycanthrope at night that lands on a space with both a character and a Dragon King's scale. He must attack the character and must encounter the dragon scale at the same time.

There's no available rule to sort this, not even the Simultaneous Effects (they are not simultaneous, but alternative). As a house rule, you may roll a die as a tie-breaker.

I think you would be forced to take the Living Doll AND pay 1 fate if you have fate to spend, but you cannot take the Doll if you have no fate at all. That's my opinion.

Thanks, I'll go with that. I will let active player choose though, talisman is random enough as it is.

What happens when I have Black Squire and I encounter the Living Doll?

http://www.talismanwiki.com/Black_Squire

http://www.talismanwiki.com/Living_Doll

Do I have to pay fate to take the doll, or is paying fate still optional?

The way I read black squire it says that I can take an object if I so choose but I have to pay fate first. But the doll is mandatory.

This is a problem of conflicting "musts", like a Lycanthrope at night that lands on a space with both a character and a Dragon King's scale. He must attack the character and must encounter the dragon scale at the same time.

There's no available rule to sort this, not even the Simultaneous Effects (they are not simultaneous, but alternative). As a house rule, you may roll a die as a tie-breaker.

I think you would be forced to take the Living Doll AND pay 1 fate if you have fate to spend, but you cannot take the Doll if you have no fate at all. That's my opinion.

Concerning the example you give of a Lycanthrope landing on a space with both a character (at Night) and a dragon scale, the GR of Special Ability Vs. Rules applies here. It is in a rulebook that dictates when you must encounter a dragon scale, but that is overridden by the effect of the Lycanthrope card effect. It is the same as why you must encounter the Harbinger instead of a dragon scale, effect overrules basic rules.

I agree with what you say about the original question, take the doll and pay 1 Fate if you have any, but you can't take the doll if you haven't any Fate. The rules don't have a good, definitive answer for this question.

I agree with what has been said.

You MUST take the doll and you MUST pay a fate. If you cannot pay the fate then you are exempt the MUST rule and do not take the doll.